OT_ MOO3
 

just saw this at www.gonegold.com

sorry if this is old news. I didn't do much of a search here.

"Master of Orion 3

I have this one pre-ordered and just received notice that the new date for the game is Q1/03. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Will be checking into this further, but it's not looking good.

We are writing to let you know that we have changed the projected ship date for Master Of Orion 3 to 1/1/03. The publisher did not provide us with a specific date so this is our best estimate only and should not be considered firm. We will update this date again as we receive new information.

From past experience, when news like this hits, it's been pretty accurate. The slip has been anyway, not the actual ship date. That's why I would post it as Q1/03."

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

No, not new news. The Last we heard was October. Sounds like they are having a bit of a bug problem. If not that, something.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

The release date displayed on the official website has not changed yet. Unless it does change very soon, I woul dnot put too much stock in this report. QS has been very open about their delays. I wouldn't expect them to start hiding changes now.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

I wouldn't doubt Rich Laporte, he has very good connections.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

This a later post on gonegold's "front page".

"Master of Orion 3

Direct from Infogrames, the news for the "Official Release" date is still Q4/02...

Actually we still consider it to be Q4, 2002.

So I guess it's a "wait and see" sort of situation. Retail is stating Q1/03, while the publisher is sticking to Q4/02, for now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif "

I usually don't post this kind of stuff but since the source was gone gold and is a sci-fi game, I thought I would.

[ August 02, 2002, 02:42: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Hmm that has "push it out the door" spelled all over it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Hmmm..should I say it?

sure, why not.....

Infogrames..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

It looks like Moo3 is in trouble. The deadline for going Gold if they want to make the public release date of 'Q3' is upon us and there has been no further word, either official admission of further deadline slippage or reassurances of intent to make the deadline through some extra-ordinary measures. This quiet 'sliding by' has upset the community on the official forum and several threads have sprouted up complaining. Meanwhile, a new preview on gamers.com calls the current state of Moo3 'lackluster', meaning it is not anything noticably different from many other 4X games we've already seen. Given that there is no time left to perform any major re-design it looks like a 'public beta' cycle is the only thing that can save Moo3.

On the other hand, Civ III has had Yet Another Patch issued over the summer and rumours are now flying that an expansion pack featuring multi-player ability and other goodies will be released in October. The latest patch adds 8 new civilizations, let alone fixing various bugs and adjusting game-balance features. If this is the 'patch' then the expansion pack should be awesome. It looks like Civ III is finally worth acquiring, and it's what? Almost a full year after official release? Yep... So keep this in mind as Moo3 gets shoved half-baked out the door like some teenager being forced to go to school in the early morning. It may take a while to wake-up, but Moo3 it not necessarily as stupid as it will look on first impression. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We can look forward to the 'real' Moo3 next fall.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

from what I've read they went back to into the game and removed alot of things they thought were making it too micromanaging. They were basically redesigning some of it and thought the release date would slide a bit.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? I just got the latest patch, and started Civ III up. I didn't see any new civs.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

regarding civ3, the 8 civs are only for the expansion pack, not in the patch.
AFAIK the patch only fixes some bugs, and completes the editor.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

It's gonna suck! Too bad people will still buy it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Well, I don't actually have Civ III yet, so I must have mis-remembered. If it's the expansion pack that has the 8 new civilizations that's fine. I'll be buying Civ III soon, and maybe I can buy a package deal with both Civ III and the expansion pack in a single purchase. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sachmo, you think MOO 3 will suck? I think it'll be 'MOO 2.5' as some have been calling it -- not much of a real change in design or play from past 4X games -- but having what is essentially original MOO (it is more like original MOO than MOO II) with updated art and some new wrinkles to the game is not a bad thing.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

BM, Civ3 is definitely not worth paying more than maybe $20 for (including the expansion pack).

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I got the impression that the game is experiencing massive feature creep, and since Infograms has absolutely no problem pushing an unfinished game out of the door, it will be less than expected. Perhaps "suck" was a harsh term...how about "disappoint"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm just not sure my little brain can take ANOTHER classic game being ruined. If they get it finished, no matter how long it takes, then it will have a chance. However, that's not the way software development works anymore.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Well, I do have CivIII, and I can't wait for the expansion set to come out (which should be next month). I'm also waiting for Rollercoaster Tycoon 2, which is also scheduled to come out next month. These 2 games, plus Sim City 4 (if I meet the hardware requirements) are about the only games that will take me away from SEIV. There's just not enough time in the day to play all of these games!!

[ September 06, 2002, 18:58: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Baron,
I am sorry. I dont think you are right if you say that MOO3 is rather a Moo2,5.
Just imagine the radical change of the tactical combat. Its real time! (One reason I will not buy this MOO3 game.)
This game will be rather like a more complicated shogun or medievial, not like MOO2. They just took the background and some races/names of MOO2.
I said it often before and I will say it once more. MOO3 will never reach the qualtity of MOO2 or the SE series.
There is a long row of similar unlucky game experiments like: MAX II, Deadlock II, Age of Wonders II (yes!)....-and I hope NOT SE5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

bye
Klaus

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

According to information posted on this BB forum, yes, SE V will have 'real time' combat because the RPG spin-off -- which is 'real time' -- will be a test/proof of concept for the combat portion of SE V. As long as it is ONLY the combat part of the game I don't think this is a big deal. One of the problems in making combat 'fair' is initiative. Something close to 'real time' (at least, many very small turns) is really required to make combat fair for smaller, quicker ships. Depending on how it's done I think it can turn out much better than the current system. Combat in MOO II was the one thing that was really better than original MOO, btw. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 06, 2002, 02:28: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

as long as it has strategic combat mode, so we can still put 20 players in a game and run 4 turns a week.

more complex, detailed, and inteligent orders for strategic combat would be nice too. i could care less about tactical or realtime, unless having the solid tactical backend helps the game render better strategic combat.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Baron,
"only" real time tactical combat? for me this is not really just only. tactical combat is for me 50% of SE4. I love to test my ship design against those of my opponents. (in TB combat of course)

I like the SE series really much since they start (I think I was one of the first who cought up the Modding and limited resources discussion in the SE mailling list several years ago) and I hope that Aaron will not "develope" the game in this new trendy "real time" direction. Why changing a system which is functional and well introduced? Improving yes - but not changing. For me this would be not a good way to bring SE series along. (and it has also a good chance to flop - as my lately posted game examples show)

I also dont find that you can compare an initiative impulse system like you and Barnacle Bill would like to have is similar to a real time system.
In real time the time impulse is infinitely small and thus a user cannot check precisely in which of those microimpulses to act. Therefore a guy which has a certain trained mouse ability is ALWAYS in advantage to another guy which has not this ability. And this is guilty in every game with RT sequences. (included SFB and Harpoon and so on) Some people claim that everybody has "enough" time for clicking/commanding their forces. But this argument is not valid, because its not true. In EVERY real time game the right mouse click at the right time is always better than the the right mouse click at the wrong time. And this puts a heavy disadvantage on untrained mouseclickers. I would like to have the SE series to be games which are a contests of the minds not of the fingers.

bye
Klaus

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Well it could have simultaneous resolution with turn-based orders phases, like The Cosmic Balance, Begin, Wooden Ships & Iron Men, etc.

PvK

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

from avault:

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 6:12 am CT
MOO3 Development Update
Reported by: David Laprad

If game development were an exact science, ambitious games would never be delayed. And if there were never any delays, Master of Orion 3 might have been out eons ago. But when it comes to dealing with an ever-changing master design and the volatile waters of fan expectations, science is nowhere to be seen. With that in mind, the Adrenaline Vault on Tuesday spent a few moments on the phone with Infogrames' senior producer Constantine Hantzopoulos to find out where Master of Orion 3 is on the production line and when it would reach the end.

When asked how much of MOO3 was done, Hantzopoulos said the game is approaching the alpha stage of development, which he defines as "feature complete" and when a project is "playable from start to finish." Although it's surprising that MOO3 hasn't reached alpha after 27 months of work, the senior producer says Infogrames and Quicksilver are still aiming for a Quarter 4 2002 release for the PC Version. "Fans will be playing MOO3 during the holidays," he said.

This will give the publisher and creator about two months to balance and play test the product before it hits stores. Look up the word "crunch" in Webster's dictionary, and you might see a picture of the MOO3 team, which Hantzopoulos said is busy locking up the game's final features. The Last items to be completed: The laws for the Orion Senate. These will allow players to bend or break MOO3's rules for a certain amount of time. After that comes extensive and highly scrutinous play balancing.

All of which, Hantzopoulos said, will result in a MOO game with deeper politics, richer diplomacy and better espionage than the 4X genre has ever seen. He also promises robust artificial intelligence: "While playing the game this weekend, I launched a ground assault with a huge armada and tons of troop transports. The AI misled me, outflanked me and destroyed my troop transports, which left me with nothing but my long- and short-range attackers. The computer went after my primary tactical element, which was cool."

Players hoping to get their hands on MOO3 before it hits stores may be disappointed to read that Infogrames is not planning for a public beta test or a demo. Instead, the publisher is focusing on getting the game out the door. "It'll be out soon. We won't make quarter 3 because we're holding it back for a little more polish. We're committed to making MOO3 bug free and well balanced," said Hantzopoulos, who leaves soon for a three-week trip to Quicksilver to "bring the game home." Infogrames is planning a private beta test utilizing about 25 people.

In Master of Orion 3, the sequel to one of the most acclaimed strategy games of all time, players become the controlling power behind an entire galactic civilization.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

From Moo3 FAQ (www.orionsector.com) :

"Will you be able to play by email?
No. Why would you? "

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

This can go 2 ways.

Be a good game....

Or be the start of a bastardized game a great franchise....

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

In a relatively recent issue of Computer Gaming World or PC Gamer (don't remember which), they had a short 1/2 page preview of MOO3, and what they showed and spoke of was less than impressive. They considered it a step backwards in terms of technology and gameplay, and from the small screenshots I could see, they weren't kidding. I'll have to do some more looking-into to see if all of a sudden MOO3 has devolved.

zen

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Recently a demo for a game was released called "G.I. Combat", which is a strategy scaled wargame (controlling about 140 troops). It was a disaster. Virtually unplayable.

It is real time, but you are not able to control everything, as there is just one speed, no workable pause (pause freezes everything). Major problems arise when you are controlling one front, and the other starts to collapse. It was rushed through production with many glaring problems. It tried to please too many people, by adding unecessary flashy elements (representing individual troops).

A slightly older similar game, "Combat Mission" is of the same genre, but does it infinitely better. It is turn based, and the AI is much smarter. It focus' more on gameplay then flashy graphics, realtime and innumerable options.

Unfortunately I can see Master of Orion 3 turning into what this game is, a clickfest. Realtime, unless done very well, gives off the impression of a lot of realism, but lowers the actual control over the situation, relying basically on how well the AI can fight another AI.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Don't know about GI Combat but Combat Mission IS a great game IMHO. I have both CM:BO and CM:BB.

[ October 19, 2002, 00:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Yes, I have CMBO, bought WAY back, but my purchase of Space Empires IV Gold ate up my computer game financial reserves for this half of the year, so CMBB will have to wait! It is funny that even CMBO beats out GIC, which is 2 years older.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What!?!? Is that correct?

PvK

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Given the fact that combat is real-time, how would you conduct a play-by-email game, exactly?

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Given the fact that combat is real-time, how would you conduct a play-by-email game, exactly?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They would have to have some sort of combat where the computer controls both sides, like Strategic combat in SE4 PBEM.

Geoschmo

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Sadly, games are gearing up for more fluff than substance. In the hopes they can kick it out and sell a million copies before anyone discovers.... THAT IT SUCKS!

Presto studios, for example, just had to close doors because they couldn't find a publisher that wanted to distrubute original games. I suggested shrapnel to them, but it was already too late...

Very sad.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

It is like TV and Radio. You can get more listeners if you just play simple formulas, replay similar plots and sounds, and inundate with something that is sub-quality while those that are critically acclaimed get no air time as they are too risky. There is a greater guarantee to get money if you promote simple and flashy stuff then something that has substance. As who cares if you find 10 000 loyal listeners/purchasers, when you could get 100 000 people to buy your product and use it only once or twice. All that matters is the purchase, as people have short memories and will keep on going back when the next flashy thing comes out, not remembering that it was from the same guys who ripped you off before (just under a different name!).

Also, a lot of computer companies are relying on the pre-order to get a lot of their cash, along with Beta-Testers who are not quite thourough enough in pointing out bugs, or cannot tell the community about them due to a contract with the company. Many people by a flashy game (that looks good on screenshots), as well as a limited demo that flashes off only the cool aspects, hiding glaring large problems encountered with the expanded full game.

[ October 22, 2002, 03:14: Message edited by: Major Tom ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Wanna hear something funny...

I started playing SEIV as a gap while waiting for MOO3 and Star2....

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Tesco, Funny and SWEET! I bought SEIV for the exact same reasons! I've played MOO II (and I for that matter) more than any other game(s) I've owned. I'm a little concerned over the outcome of MOO III, but all we can do is wait and see. I don't know if Space Empires will ever 'beat' MOO II for sheer entertainment value for "me", but I'm just amazed at how much I enjoy SEIV!
This game has rocketed to my 2nd favorite game of all time in just a few months. I like surprises like that, AND finding the helpful and friendly folks and advice on this board!
I'm looking forward to MOO III, but it'll have it's work cut out for it to beat this game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Dito, StarJack. I/WE are waiting to see if MOO III is all is cracked up to be. Or, are some of the reviews acurate, not all that they thouht it would be.

MOO III, must go quite a distance to replace SEIV! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Well it looks like it WILL be out this year, end of November is now the offical line. As a matter of interest does anyone Know what the combat screens will look like???

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

There was a new "Developer's Diary" discovered on Gamespy before it was supposed to be officially released, and it had some nice screenshots of combat. For some reason this was removed after word of its discovery was posted on the Official MOO 3 Boards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif The link on the official MOO3 site is even cut off now. And its original publications date, Last Sunday, has passed but it has not reappeared. Guess they were upset at the early release by a snooping web browser. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It's been over a year since the Last Dev Diary on MOO3. Hopefully this will be reposted soon. Keep an eye on Gamespy.

[ October 26, 2002, 03:56: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

http://www.orionsector.com/art-screens.shtml

I dunno...the screens aren't as sci-fi as I would have expected. Maybe the design/colors just keep reminding me of the 70s. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Or maybe I was spoiled by the Imperium Galactica II interface. heh heh

::edit::
Heck, even Galactic Civilization's screens appeal to me more:
http://www.bluesnews.com/screenshots...lciv/20021010/

Of course, as always, it's a matter of preference.

zen

[ October 26, 2002, 04:47: Message edited by: zenbudo ]

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Yeah! But MOO never has been about the grafix's. Or atleast not as much as other factors in the game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

The only that really bugs me about the graphical part in MOO3 is that the resolution is FIXED at 800x600. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I hope they release a patch soon, or someone finds a way to get it higher cos 800 is...well..small. I haven't played a TBS game in 800 for years, higher resolutions give you a much better overview of your empire, and everything looks sharper too.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Lemmy,
Go over to the officail website and toss in the suggestion!

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Nah, this has been suggested before, i'd just get the usual response that it isn't about graphics, and that worse graphics means a better game...or at least something like that...

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

They can't change it, supposedly, because the entire User Interface is hand-drawn, and only works at 800x600. Also something having to do with voxels, I think, but that could just be the happy juice talking.

Re: OT_ MOO3
 

Gah. Those fields of blue are hand-drawn? Are programmers doing art direction again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif heh heh

I just picked up Hegemonia: Legions of Iron at CompUSA for $25. I might have to upgrade to a Radeon 9700 just to go 'ooooo...aaaaah'. I'll be back eventually with a report if I don't forget. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

zen