My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

Firstly - I think Frigates are useless - even for cannon fodder; too small. And while I'm on the subject - if you can get a hvy wep mount for a sattelite - wherefore not for a frigate?

Destroyers run a close 2nd but sometimes if heavily armored can Last for awhile.

The first useful size - AFAIC - is Light-Cruiser. An upgraded weapons mount, more space, fast. They are the mainstay of my fleets (so far).

Rebuttals? Comments?

[ August 09, 2002, 18:25: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

Frigates - get 'em while everyone else still has escorts, they rule. Frigates are pretty good scout ships, One missile, one direct fire, one supply, one armor, will do 1 or 2 systems away, I use them pretty well into mid-game if there's no war.

Destroyers - pretty good. Will hold a repair bay, and 3 supply, couple of point defence. An excellect support ship into early mid-game.

Light Cruiser, I agree, is the first, good ship. Fleets of them signify early mid-game. But, what do you if a war starts before you have them?

I once tried to get a dogfight game. I made research requirements high, and resources low. I was hoping to see fleets of escorts and frigates with CSM I and DUC I. But I gave the A.I. a moderate bonus, and so for them it was just an ordinary game. I had frigates, when they had battleships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ August 09, 2002, 18:52: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

In traditional naval terms, smaller vessels are used primarily as scouts, escorts, minesweepers, or, in modern times, tasked with the anti-sub role. In other words, for specific fleet functions/roles. Traditional Cruisers are the smallest of the "stand and fight" general-purpose warhulls. This has slipped a little in modern times as warships size have increased. In the game, I use FG/DD hulls as scout, survey, repair, supply, mine laying/sweeping functions & picket duty role -- not (generally) as fighting ships, but to fulfill useful fleet functions that don't need the larger hull. Retrofitted LC's replace these specialty ships as I start building BC/BB classes, and CA/BC's as I start DN/BS construction.

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

I use escorts as point ships. They can move into a system and see what lays in the path of my fleet.

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

The main advantage of the smaller ships like escorts and frigates are IMO their defense bonus and low cost. Therefore they can be valuable against psychic races with allegiance subverters or ships with huge weapons that have a high reload time. But of course their offensive capability is minimal against larger ships with a lot of shields and/or armor.
Besides that I use them as recon ships and medical support ships.

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

True, in unmodded SE IV the bigger is usually better. But try Proportions mod for example and you will acknowledge the finer points of smaller ships.

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

Rational for Weapon Mounts on Sats but not Ships?:
Practical reason: Game Ballence
Hypothectical Reason: Sats are Staionary? Ships Move?
Works for me, but mostly I don't go for "Realty" reasons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

By about the midpoint of the game I'm using the smaller ships mainly in special roles. Mine sweeper, sneaky mine layer, scout, PD ships occasionally (especially if they're older ships from the beginning of the game and have a lot of experience... keep em), rapid-deployment repair & supply ships, etc.

The medium sized ships are still useful in 'encounter' fleets. In Quasi Newtonian games the faster larger ships are just soooo expensive. So a relatively inexpensive fleet of very fast Cruisers and even Light Cruisers can be used to move to trouble spots quickly and tie up an opponent. This buys my big/slow ships some time to go and plug up points of entry/weak spots. My general philosophy is that you can get by with half as many ships (tonnage actually), if the ships are capable of getting to any location in your realm in 3 turns or less.

I'd imagine that with human players, a quick response force is often enough to convince them that you're just not a soft target, and should be left alone (the AI is simply not smart enough to read such warning signs).

[ August 09, 2002, 23:14: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually I do go for 'Realty' - the more planets the better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which then begs the question - are these original designs or refits into that new role? And a follow-up: does a ship lose experience on a refit?

BTW - I've heard of guys using so-called 'training ships' to train up the crew. I don't see anywhere wherein one can transfer a crew. It seems the concept would only work if you had a neural net installed in each ship - impractical for the smaller hulls. Either that - or these are basic hulls fitted with just enough stuff to exceed 50% and then get retro-fitted. Hence the second part of the question above. Is that a practical idea?

[ August 10, 2002, 16:54: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah that appears to be the plan. But when the opponent gets dreadnought hulls, frigates and destroyers are doomed. One direct hit from a Heavy weapon will instantly destroy an armored, shielded, ECM III frigate. I think 2 or 3 CSM V will also instantly destroy a frigate. That's kinda funny when it happens -- to the other guy at least. Whoosh --- Boom no mini explosions, no limping away on one engine, just gone.

'Course, the ship has just wasted some of it's big guns on a little cannon fodder ship, now it's your turn. Heh

[ August 10, 2002, 17:06: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

"BTW - I've heard of guys using so-called 'training ships' to train up the crew. I don't see anywhere wherein one can transfer a crew."

Not used to train a ship, but a FLEET. Once the fleet is fully trained, put some attack ships in it and take the bogus training ship out. Rinse and repeat.

Phoenix-D

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Should I add any softener? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

Yes, softener makes for better war ships.

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

Don't add softener if you're using Organic Armor though, it gets in there and leaves this really nasty smell and stain behind.

Phoenix-D

Re: My thoughts on ship sizes.
 

Bah! You have to use 'Organic Armor Conditioner' for Organic Armor! Anybody who's played Organic should know that! Yeesh, next you'll be wondering where to get Crystalline Armor polish!