Star Trek ship sets
 

*Warning, Strong Opinion Enclosed*

I have been lurking here for a while now, and recently desided to post. I have downloaded all of the Star Trek ship sets, and discovered that non of them are Cannon. I am heavily dissappointed by this, and feel that I must express my displeasure at the designer of these sets, Atrocities. Dude, what in the hell were you thinking? No flame intended, but, your ship sets suck!

The Borg: OMG! That set is so ugly and un-Borg, how can you claim it to be Borg?

The Breen: These ships look like spare parts. Who died and gave you permission to do this set? I should report this, correction, I am going to report this to Paramount. You have no right to make up new ships!

The Cardassian: You took these ships from a game called Birth Of The Federation!

The Dominion: I would think that even someone as uninspired as you would have done a better job here. All the ships are exactly the same. Just differant angles.

The Federation sets: WTF were you thinking? Voyager is not a destroyer! Your ship allocations in these sets are not cannon, and reek of BS! (No offense just an opinion)

The Ferengi: Again you stoled these ships. WTF are the carriers suppose to be? Flying orange flowers?

Needless to say, the rest of your sets are not cannon, and since you refuse to respond to my suggestions via email, I thought I would post them here!

Let the professionals do the ship making. You need to go back to school and learn what it is to be a Star Trek fan. Your ship sets are NOT Star Trek, and you insult the players of this fine game by pretending to offer them Star Trek sets. Your work is un-original, and an inspired.

As I said, you should let the professionals do the work!

Again, this was not a flame, JMHO.

EDIT

Ok, I have withdrawn the "Flaming" parts. The rest should be of acceptable form.

Star Trek is about fact, not fiction. The creaters of the ships and races follow a strict guideline in development and such. Atrocities made his ship sets on a whim, and it just offened me.

[ August 13, 2002, 16:04: Message edited by: ManOfWar ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Looks like I just missed you. First welcome to the forum. Second, you should read the HTML viewer or the Credits Text document. I list the games and such that the ships were gathered from.

About those emails, well, don't expect me to respond them. I get upwards of 30 or more a day about all kinds of things. I just don't have the interest in explaining to you why I chose to develop the Hirogen set the way I did or why the Kazon ships aren't "cannon."

If you do not like the sets, simply don't use them. If you want to make new sets based upon your "vision" of star trek, then by all means feel free.

I respect your views, but I make no apology for what I have done. If you want to contact Paramount Pictures, that is your right, but before you make a complete fool of your self, ask but one question: is it really worth it?

Enjoy the game, and I look forward to any ship sets you release.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Dear ManOfWar.

If it looks like a flame, burns like a flame and hurts you like a flame it is probably a flame, wouldn't you agree?
It doesn't make it less insulting declearing someone as stupid, clueless, uninspired and accuse him of theft if you say it is just your opinion.
And who gave you the right to decide what are correct pictures of the star trek races? Are you one of the creators of the series or the elected president of the global star trek fanclub?
Please think about how you would feel about your post if you were Atrocities. I hope you would react as calm and decent as he did.
I would wish that you realize the aggressiveness that is in your post and find the right thing to do in order to correct it.

Sincerely yours,

Q

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Thanks for the support Q. I think he is somewhat sincere in his belief that his post is not intended to be a flame. I am taking him at his word with the hopes that such Posts in the future will be a tad bit more "professional."

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

I certainly hope this isn't the way forward either, GT. It's a sad sight to see a flame on the forum.

<Slightly OT>
What I am glad to see about it is this: The calmness of everyone's post. That really shows something about this forum and it's group of people and how they don't just start yelling and calling names when someone disrespects the work of others -(MoW)- and so forth.</Slightly OT>

<Back to Topic)
ManofWar, as everyone else on here as mentioned, what gives you the right to judge what is cannon and what isn't? Do you own paramount or something and you just arn't telling us? Did you design the Enterprise, or Voyager, or any other ship and won't tell us about this either? I highly doubt you did.
So it is just MHO that if you don't like the Star Trek shipsets that Atrocities has so willingly made for us loyal fans, to not use them, and not disrespect his work. He's done a wonderful job on them and we are all very much thankful of this. So untill you make "Cannon" ships for Star Trek yourself I suggest you just respect him for his efforts.

Ragnarok,

Oh, BTW, welcome to the forums.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Hmmm, the lyrics from that song by Extreme come to mind, 'if you dont like what you see here, get the funk out' etc.

Tell you what ManofWar, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that from your high handed and arrogant attitude, that you do infact own the copyright to the entire Star Trek universe.

I have always been a major fan of Star Trek and as you are so important and central to the Trekkie world, please arrange for some of your graphics designers to do us a great canon set of ships for all Star Trek races, I would also like Kzinti, Lyran and all the SFB races that didnt appear in the series. As you own the copyright, I am assuming you are stinking rich and can afford to do this.

If of course you do not own the Star Trek copyright, then I really dont see what entitles you to flame others on this subject.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

I am very proud of Atrocities and everyone elses reasoned thoughtful replies these inflamatory comments. You all are a credit to the forum.

It's nice to see we can take what was intended to be a negative and hurtful post and turn it into something positive.

Geoschmo

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Well, well, well. I can only make the assumption that you are young and inexperienced, Manowar. So, I'm willing to cut you a bit of slack. Obviously, your opinion is your own. If you aren't a fan of atrocities work, than it's your right to say so. However, calling someone clueless, et all, is going beyond the boundries of criticism. The moral of the story is that no matter how you try to disguise it, when you start personally attacking someone, you are flaming them, and your opinion no longer counts. Hopefully, you will put forward your own shipset that meets the requirements you are looking for. Meanwhile, I will continue playing games with atrocities Star Trek ship sets! When you get thru with your sets, let me know, and I'll put 'em thru the paces.

Wow, I have always heard of the militant Star Trek fan, but had yet to run into one. Spooky!

[ August 13, 2002, 14:13: Message edited by: sachmo ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[Moderator mode] Everybody is entitled to his own opinion. However, insulting another person is not an excepted way of stating your opinion. So, please watch your words.[/Moderator mode]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

*Warning, Strong applause Enclosed*

Yes, I agree with Q and Atrocities.
First, not every picture/ship is the way is was ment in the series I agree, but hee I think it very difficult to find/make 30 PERFECT picture for a ship set. And Atrocities made (donn't shoot me if I'm wrong) &gt;10 of those sets, so thats up to 300 pictures (95% are very good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )
So not only for this big task he should get a applause . But also to give me more fun in playing SEIV. For example I'm now playing ST final frontier on PBW (Ferengi) and it is big fun to roleplay in the star trek universe.

Secondly, I think that MoW crosses a big line: saying your opinion is ok, but insulting in this manner is totally not approved under normal civilized talking people.
And to be honnest, this "opinion" was not saying one's opinion but just insulting someone.

So man of war, please don't come back if all of your "opinion" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif are like this.
But if you have something funny, not insulting, (or an apology) to say, you are offcourse welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Sparhawk

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Please do not post flames here.

Regards

[ August 13, 2002, 15:40: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Hmm, interesting response from Manofwar there.

Not only does he not have the common decency, civility or maturity to admit he is wrong or apologise, but he also does something so capricious and petty as trying to get
Atrocities' website closed down.

Manofwar, we have responded to your uncalled for flaming in a civilised and polite manner.

All I can really say is that your actions are immature and pathetic and I am sure I speak for the majority of regulars to this forum when I suggest that you find an alternative hobby.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BTW - this is not a flame! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

*Thank you for your support, but please do not engage in insulting comments. Thank you.*

[ August 13, 2002, 15:50: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Excuse me, but I did not post a flame. I posted an opinion, strong as it was, but still an opinion. I do not feel that my remarks were a flame, or should have been taken as such. I do not flame. If I do flame someone, it would be very clear that it was a flame.

However, given the nature of this forum, I apologize if I have offended any one.

Oh great! Are you going to delete this post too now? Edit away it only proves how insecure you are about what I am saying. And to make it clear to you, I will restate that I have emailed Angelfire and apprised them of your web sites illegal content. Best wishes, and fond regards there Mr. Atrocities!

[ August 13, 2002, 15:45: Message edited by: ManOfWar ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Man of War, You are very close to having the entire thread locked here. Chill out. Go somewhere else for a while. Your original post was a flame. You may claim it wasn't all you want, but you don't make that determination. The Moderators of the forum do. I am one, Mephisto is one, and Atrocities is one. We have all determined that you are over the line here. You won't get many more warnings.

Geoschmo
SEIV Forum Moderator

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Please check your private Messages MoW.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Excuse me, but I did not post a flame. I posted an opinion, strong as it was, but still an opinion

You made direct and personal remarks about another poster on this forum. That is a flame by any definition.

I apologize if I have offended any one.

Miracles do happen.

I will restate that I have emailed Angelfire and apprised them of your web sites illegal content.

Illegal? really, are you a lawyer Manofwar? I am, and there is nothing illegal in Atrocities' website. There is an acknowledgement that this is fan art and that the copyright of the various images of this site belong to, amongst others, Paramount pictures.

The most Angelfire will do is notify Atrocities of your complaint, and then POSSIBLY notify Paramount who, if they are feeling extremely mean, may ask Atrocities to put an full endorsement on his site or possibly pay a licence fee.

BIG DEAL.

You really think Paramount are going to bring a contractual action against Atrocities based on this?

And now you have tried disrupt his site because you felt you had the right to insult Atrocities' star trek picture sets.

Pathetic, absolutely childish and pathetic.

[ August 13, 2002, 15:55: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Ok, I am sorry. Please do not lock the thread. I intended only to point out that I do not like Atrocities ships sets. I feel that they are an abomination to SFB, and Trek. Past that I think he is a nice guy.

No offense was intended.

Um, how do you read private Messages?

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Check your email also. To check private Messages, click "my profile" and then look at the bottom of the page. You should be able to figure it out.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Manofwar, I will say it again, if you can do better, then please do so and share all pictures with all of us.

If you cant, then do not preume to pass judgement on those who do.

It is only because people like Atrocities give up their personal time to make shipsets/mods/AI that this game is as fmuch fun as it is

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

MOW,

Click on "my profile" at the top. That will take you to wher eyou can read your private Messages.

You aren't the first person to state the opinion that atrocities shipsets aren't "canon". The opinion is not what people objected to. It's the tone whith which you state it. And your refusal to consider that others may not disagree with your opinion, and your assertion that since you don't like them they are not worthy of use by anyone, and your effort to have his site shut down. These are all show very poor character.

Please desist from comments or actions of this type. If you can do that you will be permitted to remain and make appropriate Posts.

Geoschmo

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">An abomination to Trek?

*Dogscoff clears his throat and switches on his loudhailer, holding it inches from at MoW's ear.

*het hem*
\/\loudhailer feedback/\/

IT'S JUST A TV SERIES. IT'S NOT REALLY REAL. IT'S NOT WORTH STARTING AN ARGUMENT ABOUT.

Especially one you're going to lose...

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Mr. Atrocities, please read your private Messages.

If Star Trek cannon is not followed, then why call it Star Trek? STB has spent the Last 15 or so years dedicated to establishing Trek Cannon. Now, hear comes Atrocities and Oleg with their views of Star Trek. Ya, the Tholian set is also non cannon, and therefore should NOT becalled the Tholians, but perhaps something else like some race out of Babylon 5.

Atrocities races are not accepted by any SFB fan. Oh yes, we have talked, and it is agreed that his ship sets are not Trek.

But they can be something else. Just not Star Trek. I just looked at his latest Borg ships, I must say that I did not know that he had redone them. The new set, although interesting, stinks as well. Paramount has established what the Borg ships should look like, and this new Version does not include ships that fit that description. I will not use them.

The 8472 set looks like something from Babylon 5. Perhaps the Shadows or something. I never got into B5 because it was a cheep rip off of Star Trek. So you will have to make up your own opinion on where it would fit in the sceme of things.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

[quote]Originally posted by Elowan:

Quote:

Edited by Atrocities: [qb] ... BTW - this is not a flame! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif *Thank you for your support, but please do not engage in insulting comments. Thank you.*

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry about that. Got carried away with my diagnosis and treatment. Sigh! I keep forgetting that I'm retired.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Wow... How a situation changes....

Contacting At's web provider...now that is just wrong.

I do not understand why you would do such a thing as this and I do not want to understand.

Moderators... Lock this forum and let it slide to oblivion. Please.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

sorry ManofWar, who has spent the Last 15 years developing star trek 'canon'? please do tell me, I would love to know who these powers that be are...

I am a Star Trek fan, you certainly have not spoken to me and frankly, Atrocities' sets are the best Star Trek I have seen and therefore are 'canon' for me until something better comes along.

Finally, comparing B5 to Star Trek is also dangerous ground. I am a B5 fan as well and can see a host of differences any rational person would see.

ManofWar, a piece of free advice, you must stop make these sweeping generalisations, otherwise you will annoy people.

Geo/Mephisto - please seriously consider locking this thread.

[ August 13, 2002, 16:36: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

OMG! He critisized B5 now. I might as well lock this thread down now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

MOW, we have had many of these discussions in the past, but you weren't around for them. The fact is 'canon' is very subjective. Trying to base everything on whether it's canon or not is tough, because there are many inconsistancies within trek itself.

Klingons? TOS, Movies, or TNG? And not just the shipsets here. The Klingons themselves have changed radically over the years. Mnay die hard trek fans have tried to come up with ways to justify these changes. So what's the real explaination? Well, the authority would be Rodenberry himself wouldn't it? And he said the reason the Klingons in TOS and the movie Klingons looked different was simple. It was because he didn't have a big makeup budget with TOS.

You see, they aren't really klingons. They are people in makeup pretending to be klingons.

Let's just try to lighten up and not take this stuff so seriously ok MOW?

Geoschmo

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

OK, I hesitate to get into this, but ---- MoW, I'm an OLD Trek fan -- Original Series, the cartoon series, Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, the new Enterprise AND a 20 year vet of Star Fleet Battles. I do not have ANY issue with ANY ship set offered up for play in SE4 -- ST, B5 or whatever. As has been stated by many, if you can do better, DO SO. Not all Trek fans share your opinions -- in fact they have the exact opposite. I really like the shipsets, canon or not. SFB went through a huge court dogfight with Paramount over their intellectual property, I don't want to see that rehashed in SE4. Personally, I don't like you saying B5 is a cheap rip off of ST -- I certainly don't feel that way. If you don't have anything nice to say, maybe you shouldn't say it.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

MoW you sincerely ow me. You are the first to do it, and I hope the Last. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Check your Messages.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

what does ow mean?

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

I think he means Awe. Dude buy a spell checker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Let me take a step back. I know next to nothing about Babylon 5. We did not get it in this area so I could not watch it. From what I read at TrekBBs and other Trek sites, it was a direct rip off of Star Trek. If that judgement is incorrect, then I have only the Network Tv Stations to blame.

So your telling me as dedicated Star Trek fans from your era, and with a history of SFB under your belt, you can sit in your Captains chair and type that you like these star trek sets?

The only set I like of his is the Klingons and Romulan sets. The rest suck horribly. I had to edit them in order to use them, but alas they are useable. Perhaps I should submit them for the TDM Mod. My sets are far better than the onese they are using currently.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Oh man. Now he is critisizing TDM. Duck!

You really like getting under peoples skin MOW? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

So your telling me as dedicated Star Trek fans from your era, and with a history of SFB under your belt, you can sit in your Captains chair and type that you like these star trek sets?

I do believe that is exactly what we are staying.

Are you so narrow-minded, egocentric and unaware that you consider only your opinion matters on these sets?

I say it again, if you dont like them, fine. Your choice and you dont have to use them. Just dont bother the rest of us with your opinion.

and if your sets are so much better than what is currently available, please share them. I am sure we would all like to see what a master craftsman like yourself can come up with.

[ August 13, 2002, 16:53: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please do not feed the troll.

I vote for a lock on this thread: MoW is either taking the piss or is so rigidly set in his opinion that any reasonable solution other than "agree to differ" is impossible.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

I concur with Dogscoff. Geo, please close this thread down. It is obvious Manofwar enjoys encitement more than any logical progression of views through discussion.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Ok, I've wasted enough time waiting for you to say something intelligent, MoW. I was so impressed that you were able to give some criticism without insulting anyone in my Remorhaz thread, and then you quickly move back to verbal diarrhea in this one. Until you apologize to everyone you have insulted on this board (no, that does NOT include me...yet!) then you are on my ignore list. You are nothing but a TROLL, and I don't play that game.

**MUTE**

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Yeah, that was probably a bad idea. He had gone past the point of annoying and had reached ridiculous I thought. But I shouldn't have said anything.

The next sound you hear will be the thread being locked....

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

*Sound of the second lock engaged* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

When I was at school I used to think Star Trek fans were the stereotypical sad, nerdy losers who attach an unbalanced amount of importance to what is- when it boils down to it- just a TV series.

Since coming to this forum, I have met ppl like Q and Atrocities who have shown me that Trekkies can equally be broad-minded, sociable and creative folk who are able to just enjoy the show without treating it like a holy war.

Thankyou MoW for taking me back to school and helping me re-learn what is to be a true star trek fan.

BTW, you need to either look up what "JMHO" actually stands for, or think long and hard about the meaning of the word "Humble".

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

At, Q. Very classy responce.

Welcome to the forum ManofWar

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Incrediable observation! How could we all missed it ! There is really no ship even remotely resembling cannon ( a large heavy gun usually mounted on a carriage ) here ! Thank you very much, dude.

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

Greetings.

I am currently developing a Star Trek Mod for Space Empires. One of the things I wanted to do was create my own 3D ships for the game, of which I already have done a few. Let me tell you, to build such a set is overwhelming...do you not realize there are about 30 different designs in a normal set? Do you know how long it would take a person to build that? How about coming up with something new to fill all the holes left by Star Trek canon? If you are do disappointed with what is availible, why don't you try your own?

And actually, why wouldn't Voyager be a destroyer-sized ship? It's easily about 3 times (or more) smaller in volume than a Galaxy class ship.

Atrocities has down fine with his sets and has done far more for this game than most others on this board. I applaud his efforts.

I used to follow Star Trek forums...but I can't stand them. I'm never seen so called fans so critical of their supposedbly favourite show. "This sucks...that sucks...the movie's going to suck" - ugh...if you don't like it then who cares. Do something else!

Re: Star Trek ship sets
 

ManofWar, welcome to the forum.

Personally, I am glad you have seen what little patience we have with flamers on this forum.

I agree with Q and Atrocities, if you, as you apparently state, have the definitive opinion on what is canon for Star Trek and what is not, then I suggest you prepare your own ship sets and share these with the rest of the gamers.

If you cannot, then please just shut up and let those who do/can get on with it for their own enjoyment as much as for any others.

Unless you can prove you have the copyright for Star Trek, then I do not see any legal right for you to tell Atrocities ehat he can and cannot do with these sets. As he said, his site contains an appropriate disclaimer and I would advise you to tell paramount, if only because they will probably tell you to go away and come back after you have gone through puberty.

Guys, this is the first flame I have seen on this forum. I hope this is not the way forward.