Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

Ok, maybe I just overlooked it somewhere, but...

What exactly is a "neutral race" that I keep seeing mentioned in these postings? Are they in some way different than other computer-controlled races? I see that there is a separate "neutral races" folder in the game installation, along with a "generic race" folder. So what is this "generic race" in comparison to a "neutral race" compared to a just-plain-old "race"?

I've also noticed in some of my single-player games, there are some races that never go through wormholes - are they somehow related?

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

I believe that Neutal empires will not expand past their own solar system. It's easy to consider them monir powers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, you'll recognize the neutral race by their ships. The all use the same generic ship set -- and it is generic, just a dull silvery gray streamlined shape. Their description may also give you a hint about their plans to stay put.

But they're like any other AI -- they get angry at you because you were born, because you built ships and colonies in places they'd never go anyway, and if they can't reach you -- there's always intelligence projects

Most people think that they are way too easy for the average player to steamroll over. In a way, war with them is kinda cheezy. Drop troops on one of their domed worlds and they're an easy source of a race that breathes a different atmosphere. You can trade colonization tech with them easily. And like all races, the start with a homeworld. Capture two neutral homeworlds and you've got a lot of resources and production for your real wars.

I try to role play at least a little bit. Genocide just seems wrong to me. If only I could force them to accept subugation or protectorate -- but you have to beat them to submission first, and them get them to like you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ August 17, 2002, 12:30: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

Yes, I think the AI is kinda lacking in that regard.

In real life, a weaker nation usually adjusts itself to the stronger nation...especially if it is receiving a benefit.

For example, if I my empire produces 3 times the resources of the neutral (say 60,000 vs 20,000)have a trade treaty with a Neutral and it reaches 20%, then the benefit I recieve is only 4,000 (20%x20,000) vs the benefit the neutal recieves of 12,000 (20%x60,000).

But it gets worse, the neutral now needs to produces less because half of its resourses come from my empire, so I eventually receive only about 1,000 while giving 12,000.

So the benefit to the stronger empire can be piddling compared to the benefit received by the neutral...yet they will always go to war...to face almost certain destruction.

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

A neutral race never leaves its home system. Look at them as technically advanced but have yet to discover warp technology. And yes, they are very easy to beat. I regard them as a resource rather than an enemy.

Kim

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

So one more question then: what controls the number of neutrals present in a game? Since they seem easy targets, is it simply a fixed percentage, random, or adjusted by the difficulty level of the CPU players when setting up a game.

I also notice that the neutral races seem to have flags that are simple - of a single color. Is this a good assumption to help identify them?

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As are many parameters, these numbers can be found in settings.txt in the data folder. In this case low is 1 to 3 neutrals, medium is 3 to 7, high is 6 to 10.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes! A one to one correlation here.

Kim

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm ... as I understood the manual, the trade alliance worked differently. You got 20 % of YOUR production. It wasn't trade with the AI per say, it's ment to reflect a boost to your production caused by the trade. I think that's how I've seen trade income reported in the empire window as well.

So in your example, the 20 % bonus would be 12,000 for you, 4,000 for the neutral.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Arkcon, I'm quite sure tbontob has it right. The easy proof is that the trade amounts you get from your allies vary widely. If you were getting an amount based on your own production, you would get exactly the same amount from each ally-- at least once they all reached the 20% plateau.

Kim

[ August 17, 2002, 16:17: Message edited by: Grandpakim ]

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

Neutrals also always spend 0 racial points, regardless of what starting points new players get from the Game Set-Up, so all their characteristics are Average, and they never have Advanced Traits.

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is not necessarily so: you can edit the neutral general.txt file and change it like an ordinary race. I have done that in my mod and it works perfectly. However what is hard coded is, that neutrals don't colonize outside their original system and only on rare exceptions send ships through warp points.

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

"However what is hard coded is, that neutrals don't colonize outside their original system and only on rare exceptions send ships through warp points."

I think they don't send ships at *all* now. Oh, and don't bother trying to take over a neutral mid-game and make them into a regular race- you give the warp command and your ships will just sit their scraching their heads going "Warp? What's that?"

Phoenix-D

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Someting worthwhile IMHO is giving them a racial tech. For example, the Nutolh (sp?) Group's description says their eyes can see a wide spectrum. Maybe they could start the game with a racial tech only sensor that can see everything. Then they'd be a partner you'd want to keep alive as a buffer zone.

How to keep the AI on friendly terms is difficult though. But at least now you have a reason to try.

I can't think of one for each neutral race. The Zynarra Holdings having some sort of freeze ray, I dunno that's kinda dumb, and you couldn't really profit from that.

The Tetrak Hedgemony( those Oxy Ice herd sapients) might have some extra tough troops maybe, and you could try to trade for a transport full of them.

I suppose if trading with the AI were more reliable, keeping them alive would be more useful. As it stands now, if they like you they'll trade colonization tech for DUC 5, but if the don't they won't even accept a tribute of 2 colonization techs, a planet, star charts, 100000 resources. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm ... as I understood the manual, the trade alliance worked differently. You got 20 % of YOUR production. It wasn't trade with the AI per say, it's meant to reflect a boost to your production caused by the trade. I think that's how I've seen trade income reported in the empire window as well.

So in your example, the 20 % bonus would be 12,000 for you, 4,000 for the neutral.

[ August 17, 2002, 17:09: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1). Well at game setup you can select few, moderate, and many AI opponents. If generate neutral empires is on, then it will generate them. I think it's locked together -- if 4 regular AI's are generated, then 4 neutrals are generated

2). For the default game, flag color may do it. But the flag can be any design for a mod race. But then, someone could make a race with a description "Psycho warrior expansionists", give them a fascinating ship set and make them a neutral. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is rare but I have seen it. I even had once a neutral empire blowing up another solar system with a star destroyer!

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

If you want the neutrals to be worthwhile opponents rather than conquer-fodder, play proportions. The economic emphasis on the homeworld means that it is far harder to out-pace and overwhelm them. Also, the fact that they keep all their ships in the home system means that their homeworlds are often better defended than those of other races.

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

I've taken over neutrals and had them establish colonies outside their home system...

Phoenix, this may be a dumb question, but did you remember to turn AI off for the ex-neutral in the empire options screen?

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

It was off. It was an entire game on PBW that got screwed up because of that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif may have changed back since

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

Ok, got a question. Once you download these neutral races, where do you put them? In the races folder, or the neutral folder?

Re: Newbie Question: Neutal Races
 

Place new neutral races in the "neutral races" folder...otherwise...unless I am mistaken...they will be treated as full fledged races. and we can't have that now can we? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif