Planetary weapons problem.
 

So I built all these neat ships with Planetary Napalm and included them in my assault fleet. Problem was they stayed well out of combat. Milled around at the edge of the combat map, didn'treally head for the corners or anything. But they didn't close on the planet. The rest of my ships took a beating from the weapons platforms in the process.

I should point out this is playing a mod that increseas the Kt to kill one pop, so my standard ship weapons were less effective against the Wp's. I intended the planetary weapons to take out the Wp's and fix that problem so my troop transport could close in safely.

My napalm ships had a strategy of optimal range. They had no other waepons other than the napalm. I ran tests in the simulator with just the napalm ships and they do attack, but in a fleet with other ships they hang back.

Any ideas?

Geoschmo

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

I would guess that the ships with the bigger guns take priority in the attack. Hope that helps.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

What was the ship and fleet strategy?

Phoenix-D

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

The 'Damage to Kill One Population' ratio does NOT affect damage to cargo on the planet. It affects ONLY the population. This is the problem with planetary weapons that we have discussed before. You should not be able to kill large amounts of population with anti-ship weapons, AND you should not be able to pulverize planetary defenses with anti-population (area effect) weapons. The current system in inadequate.

As for the non-attack stategy, that is odd. In my experience the AI is always incredibly stupid about just rushing in and attacking. I guess you customized something that has had an odd effect. Check the strategy used by those ships very carefully. It doesn't have "dont' fire on planets" set to true or anything?

[ August 18, 2002, 01:08: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

I've had fleets of PN-only ships just mill around like you've described. When I added a lowly DUC I to each ship, they all descended on the planet like the plague. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But you can do this:
1.) Increase the damage value to kill population.
2.) Increase the damage of the neutron bomb in the same extent but leave all other weapons including planetary napalm unchanged.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Yes, well I hadn't really intended to start a debate bout whether incresing the points to kill one pop was realisitic or not. THe fact is with the mod I am using that is the way it is. Because of this it does make it much harder to kill the weapons plats with standard ships weapons. That is why I wanted the Napalm, and I was just taken off guard by their behaivior.

Thnaks for confiming the problem Krsqk. Perhaps it's some kind of bug.

I can say for certain there was nothing unusual about my strategies. My Napalm ships and my DUC ships all haad the same strategy, optimal range. SO if it was the stratgy none of them would have closed on the planet. There is something about having only planetary weapons on a ship that makes it not close with the planet if there are any other non planetary wepoans available apparently. I think that's a problem.

Geoschmo

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

This sounds like the same thing that requires point-defense ships to have at least one non-PDC weapon.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought that too, except that DUC ships will close if there are fighters or missles that they can target with their weapons. Napalm can target the planet. I guess I will have to stick a DUC on them.

Geoschmo

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Hmm. I have not seen this problem. In a recent PBW game, the 5000 RP I invested in Planetary Weapons was the most productive (so far); I've reduced the enemy to just his homeworld and one other colony (both protected by minefields for the time being. THAT was an unpleasant surprise!)

The ships were your basic design: escorts with just enough room for 2 PNs. No ducs, and everything worked just fine.

EDIT: Granted, this is v1.49. Maybe a Gold patch introduced this bug???

[ August 19, 2002, 10:10: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Ah-HA! Mine were solitary PN ships, without any normal weapon vessels in sight.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

I assume the PN ships were allowed to break formation? Otherwise, they'd stay at optimal range for the lead ship in the fleet...

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Geoschmo I can't reproduce your findings.
I fleeted ships with anti proton beams and ships with only planetary napalm as weapons. Strategy for all ships and the fleet standard optimal firing range/optimal weapons range. Whether I select "ships break formation" or not, the ships with the planetary napalm will attack the planet exactely the same as the ships with the anti proton beams.
Any idea what could be the difference?

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

No Q, I am stumped. My game was in 1.67. Was your test in that or 1.78? I haven't tried it yet in 1.78 to see if I have the same problem.

Geoschmo

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think they had break formation orders, but I will have to check. But they had the same strategy as my DUC ships, so whichever way they should have done the same as the other ships. No, the didn't close to the range of the lead ship. They were just milling around at the edge of the combat map near their starting positions. They did not close with the other ships or run for the corners.

Geoschmo

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Ok, I think I have figured out what is happening.

It's not a Napalm problem in general, it's a Napalm I problem specifically. The Napalm I only has a range of 1. Napalm 2 and above has a range of 2. When giving a ship with only Napalm I "optimal Range" strategy it does not close and attack. You have to give it the strategy of point blank.

I was thinking maybe it's not the Napalm at all but the range one so I tried the same test using a ripper beam I, another range one direct fir weapon, and it closes on the planet and fires just fine with optimal range as the strategy.

Perhaps it's the combination of planet only and range one direct fire that makes this happen. It appears to me to clearly be a bug though. I will email it to Malfador.

In the mean time if you have this problem set your Napalm ships strategy to "Point Blank" and they will attack.

Geoschmo

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought it was intentional, so that they could 'hit all 4 squares' of the planet or something, else the weapon didnt really have the range -- Thought I read something like that.

Then again -- this makes no sense, given that this is a planetary weapon LOL and should not face this problem

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Version 1.72:

2. Fixed - Fighters with weapon range of 2 or less were not attacking planets.

Geoschmo you made all your test in Version 1.67??
Then this might have an connection. Try it again with the new patch to see if the behaviour of your ships is still the same.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

My question is does this work in a ver 1.49 game? It sounds similar to the problem of ships not obeying their "don't hurt me orders". This worked fine in ver 1.49 but does not work in Gold.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Dumbluck, I am curious. Were you sending in just your napalm escorts, or were you sending other ships as well. Cause in my simulations with just napalm ships they attack the planet as well. It's just when they are fleeted with other ships they seem to lose interest.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Well whatever is the problem Geoschmo I can't reproduce it in Version 1.78.
I changed the range of the planetary napalm in my ships to 1 and they still attack the planet.

Re: Planetary weapons problem.
 

Yes in fact Q you are correct. This problem exsisted on 1.67 but it has already been fixed by the new patch. All my tests were on 1.67 as that is what the game I noticed it in was. I tried it this morning on 1.78 and the Napalm I ships attack just fine.

Geoschmo