A puzzlement ...
 

What I don't understand is why SEIV will not load an established empire if its civ. points are greater than the default. One would think that the settings would be changed when the increased points were detected on load-up. After all - the app knows that the points in the empire exceed the default - it just said so!

It's a pain in the *** to have to reset the points every time a new game is started with the same empire. The ability to read the reqs. would seem fundamental! Sheesh!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

The empire file does not include any info on what to do if the points are too high for the game being played. Only the AI_General files do.

If you randomly generate an AI player, they will choose more or fewer traits depending on the racial points allowed.

The EMP just lists which traits were chosen.

SE4 is not going to make random changes to your race setup until it is under the limit, that would just be silly.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Elowan that's why all my emp files are made for 2000 racial points!
However if you frequently use the same races at higher racial point settings make three emp files for 2000/3000 and 5000 points.
If you want to use a emp files that needs to many racial points how should your poor computer know where to cut racial points away? (Well it could read the general.txt file but that's only used if the race is included as a random computer player).

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

I think Elowan wants the game to detect the (for instance) 5000-point empire, and automatically change the game setting to be 5000 racial points. Rather than have to go to the game setup screen, manually set 5000 points, and then load the saved empire.

I'd go a few steps further and (like others before me) ask that the game remember our preferred game setup settings, so I don't have to change 10 things on 5 different screens EVERY TIME!!! (/rant) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Another workaround is to change the settings to the higher point limit, load the empire, edit it down to the intended value, then change the settings back. (Disclaimer: I haven't tried this myself; I don't know if the program will let you change the points setting after you've loaded an empire.)

But it's much easier to just save an empire with a name that indicates how many points you used to make it.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

This is a security thing. When you are starting a game there has to be very tight control, but there is no seperate option for just editing. There needs to be a seperate EMP file editor like there is for maps. Then we could have a 'load and revise' function that would save us all the hassle of running random games until all empires have been selected and manually saved.

[ August 19, 2002, 20:31: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have no clue what you're talking about! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

My race has 3K racial points. If I start a new game and try to load the empire I get an error msg! I have to go to player settings and change the points to 3k!

If the G-d D--n program already knows my empire needs a setting of 3K - why in hell can't it adjust the racial points? Then if I want to play with less - I can edit the empire.

How hard is that to figure out! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

I am not sure how hard it is. But you are the one not able to figure it out. The game is doing what it is supposed to do.

If your empire is designed for 3000 points, and you want to play a 2000 point game then the first time you have this problem and you change the settings to 3000 and then modify your empire to 2K and then change the settigns back to 2 K, what you do at that point is save your empire as a 2K empire. Then the next time you start a game and want to play a 2K game you load the 2K empire, and if you want to play a 3K game you load the 3K empire.

Why is that so hard to understand?

If you have the game automatically change the game settings as you seem to be suggesting, then what will stop you from inadvertantly loading a 5000 piont empire up to play against your 3000 point empire?

Geoschmo

[ August 19, 2002, 21:09: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You still don't get it. I always play a 3k empire. Every time I click on Use Existing and try to load that one-and-only empire - the game won't load it until I change the new game settings to 3K!

It's the game that's defaulting to 2K! If it's smart enough to know the loading empire needs more points than the default - it should change them based on the racial point setting in the saved emp file!

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Yes, I figured out that is what you were saying after I had already posted. I edited my message too late apoarently.

If you have the game automatically change the game settings then what will stop you from inadvertantly loading a 5000 piont empire up to play against your 3000 point empire?

The point of the game configure screens are to determine the parametaers the game will be played under, then you add your empires. They have to be set to something by default. 2000 is as good as anythign else. What you need, and I can't disagree it would be something nice to have, is a settings.txt file entry to change thedefault racial points for the game, like you can with max ships and other stuff.

But having the game automatically change the limit to accomodate your empire file choice would be a bad thing.

Geoschmo

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Let me say it this way...

It's not a matter of the game not being smart enough to see how many points you used, it's a limit there to prevent you from using an empire with too many points for the game setup.

If you have the game automatically change the setup, what's the point of having a limit? You'd have to go in and check every empire to make sure they weren't using more points than you wnat them to for that game. Yeech!

Geoschmo

[ August 19, 2002, 21:21: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

I concur. The thought of letting the Game adjust any settings for me is frightening, unless I have already specified and said "Save these Settings as is"... I mean ****, try letting the AI play your turn one day.... then come back and see if ya want it to **** the game settings all up as well. LOL

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Elowan, adopt the following procedure:
When you start a new game, click on empire settings first, set it to 3K and then return to player menu and load your empire. What's a big deal about loading your empire first and foremost ? And how often to you start new games anyway ? Typical SE IV against AI should Last few days I think.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

I'm not sure that I follow you. I don't play PBW in the first place.

The bloody Amonkrie have a default 3K (AFAIK). They load as random opponents - right?

Besides - what's the difference if I set the racial points or the computer does? It's all the same except that the computer doesn't get annoyed at repetitious tasks - but I do.

My point - to re-iterate - is that the application has already determined that the racial points exceed 2K. It should assume that's what I had in mind (since I can change it if I wish). Is Malfador aspiring to become as patronizing as Microsoft?

End of discussion.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually - what you suggested is what I do. I play a lot of games so as to get a handle on what works and what doesn't. Call it SEIV Training Camp. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think I'm sorry I started this thread.

[ August 19, 2002, 21:57: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

So Elowan, if you are setting up a game and you load an empire that is using 2000 points for player one, and you load an empire that uses 3000 points for player two, do you want it to throw out the empire you just selected for player one? Or are you going to have that empire play at a disadvantage since player two and all the randomly assigned empires are based on 3000 points?

Geoschmo

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Arrrrrgggghh!

Forget I said anything!
Mildred! Erase that tape immediately!
Yessir!

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

You can't simply stop the discussion because you were incapable of making your points. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So you see your solution, while ideal for your circumstance perhaps, would make it VERY complicated for people setting up multiplyer games. You may have a valid point that there is a problem, but your solution is not a good one.

However adding a settings.txt file entry would be a good solution for your problem, and also not cause undue stress on those people setting up their multiplayer games.

On that we can agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[ August 19, 2002, 22:15: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I made my point(s) well enough. What I hadn't totally considered was multi-player but then a setting under Game Mechanics or some such would allow the moderator to set the conditions. In which case the game would/would not allow loading emps that were above or below the conditions set.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

How it can be that your only Amonkarie .emp file is for 3K ? If you use TDM, all (almost) races come with 2k, 3k and 5k .emp files. What I usually do, is to create a sub-folder in Empires folder and dump all excessive .emp files into it. Thus, when I set up a new game I have aonly few files to pick up.

P.S. It is _very_ unwise to ask to forget about your thread. It works as honey for all us flies buzzing around the forum. Next thing you will notice is 100+ Posts completely unrelated to subject ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Firstly - I'm not playing any of the available mods - not yet in any event.

As for the latter - da, ya znyu. Adnaka - nichievo! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif That's what we have now and you are complaining so loudly about. LOL!

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No - it's not what we have now. I see nothing in the opening screen from Quadrant down to Game Mechanics that remotely resembles a method of changing Racial Point Default.

The game auto-defaults to 2K RP's. If you try to load an EXISTING empire with more than 2K RP's you get a warning and have to set the Player Settings to 3K or whatever your race requires.

In Single Player - I'd like the game to respond to the fact that I'm trying to load an empire with more than the 2K default in RP's and reset the settings so that I don't have to.

If you're concerned about MP - let the moderator set the defaults (pw protected) so that only empires that equal or are less than the default can be loaded.

This would help the guy with the 2K RP empire to beef his guys up.

We now have to manually adjust the settings in SP games. That's a pain-in-the-*** and that's what I'm complaining about! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ August 20, 2002, 03:17: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Is it really that hard to just change the settings before loading or creating your races?

How many games per week are you starting?

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

My goodness! Is this truly and issue?

Personally, I rather enjoy setting all those parameters, but then I only start a new game a couple times a month. In fact, though I use the same theme for my empire each game, I doubt you could find two that are totally identical. By making small variations I've found some wonderful little, hidden niches where you can get more bang for the buck. And, as I said, its fun, too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Kim

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Is that the only setting that you change? Most of the times I start games, I (like most people) fiddle with most of the settings anyways.

[ August 20, 2002, 04:09: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's an issue for me because I play a lot of games to a certain point to learn the game mechanics and test my changes.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never expected it to get out of hand. I'm done with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Just to end this topic not on a frustrated mood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif :
If I now understood Elowan correctely, he wants to avoid to change the racial points settings each time to 3000 instead of the default setting of 2000. I don't believe it would be a good idea if the computer would correct this setting automatically according to the selected empire file.
But I agree it would be nice if you could save your favorite game setting as default. 3 starting planets instead of 1, large quadrant instead of small, medium starting tech level instead of low.....
That might be something to propose to MM. Or what to you think Elowan?

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes - that would solve the 'problem' quite nicely. A small addition to Game Mechanics or similar would do the trick.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wouldn't be adverse to the script thingy. But I don't quite get where I would alter the Settings.txt file - add a new item?

[ August 20, 2002, 15:05: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct. Malfaodr would have to add new items to the Settings.txt file that would allow us to modify the defaults. He does that now for things like maximum number of ships and units in the game. I think they are 500 and 2000 by default, but you can change that to as high as 20,000. You can change this in the game setup yourself, but it's a hassle cause it takes a lot of clicking. The settings.txt allows you to change it once and have the change reflected in all your games from that point on. You can lower it for specific games if you want. This is exactly the kind of control you want for racial points I think. It could potentially be done for just about every game setting that we have to click on when starting a game. They all have default settings.

Geoschmo

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just thought I'd bring my original post on this thread up to the front, since Q and Geo have mentioned the same thing (i.e., we'd like a way to save our "favorite" settings for game setup)...

I'd also like to point out that Elowan is right about the "standard" game only coming with one empire file for each race, although I can't remember if it's a 2000 or 3000 point race; at one point, I made 5000-point Versions for myself by loading the default Version, adding bonuses according to the race AI files, and saving as a new Version.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

Since I start most of my games from the "Launcher"
I'd love it if the script capacity could be worked into that.
Click TDM
Click 3k
Click ....
And be able to save these settings.
Then again, may not be that easy.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why do you need a separate editor, when you can make all the changes you want and save them from the Setup screen? There's no law that says you have to actually start a new game after you save the .emp file.

An alternative to starting random games (which I seem to be the only person to use, AFAICT, no matter how often I describe the procedure on these Boards) is to open the &lt;race_name&gt;_AI_General.txt file, copy down the values for the point setting you want, and create a "new" race using that shipset with the values from the file.

There's also no law that says you have to go down the Setup screen tabs in order; I've gotten in the habit of starting with Victory Conditions and doing Players Last.

Re: A puzzlement ...
 

What we have been proposing to MM for a while would be a way to start game via a script in a text file. You could type in RP=3000, and P1=Dominion.emp, and whatever else you wanted different than the normal defaults. Then hit Quick start, or better yet be able to start the game from the command prompt by calling for this text file. If we could get that added we could have automatic setup/starts on PBW. The game owner wouldn't have to set up and upload the first turn at all.

That would give Elowan what he wants. Short of that I think a settings.txt entry to change the default would be extremely simple and use the exsisting code almost entirely. A "remember Last settings" would be neat, although it would require some more heavy changes I would guess. Perhaps less than our load script idea though.

Geoschmo