Weapon tweaking
 

Has anyone made a mod that just tweaks the existing weapons so that they are a bit more usable? I have found that using certain weapons in this game can be pointless unless they are modded. Here is a list of tweaks I've put into my file:

-changed missile size from 50 to 25.
-changed small torpedo size to 7 instead of 10
-gave massive weapons recharge of 5 instead of 30

I'd like to hear what others have done to to their existing weapons settings.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Many of the "heavy" weapons are pointless. Acid Globules, High Energy Magnifiers, Tachyon Cannons, etc. Most have the same range but around 1/2 the dmg ratio of the other racial weapons available at the same tech level. Also, Torpedoes are 100% pointless weapons, even with the fixed Emmmissive Armor. At the very least, they should have a to hit bonus of like 20-25%, like they did in SE3. Graviton Hellbores are also completely pointless. They need a lot more research points than APBs, but they have the same range, and about 1/2 the dmg ratio of APBs at almost all ranges except point blank, where it is still lower than APBs.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

The 'special' damage types are seriously under-used in the default config. I've made the Graviton Hellbore a 'skips all shields' weapon so it IS worth something, for example. It's well worth researching, and also worth the trouble to close in for a point-blank attack when using it. And with the new patch I've decided to make the Acid Globule use the new 'Quarter Damage to Shields' damage type, then crank up the damage. This way it's an awful weapon against shields, as it should be since it's not an energy weapon, but it's evil once the shields are down. Provides an interesting design conundrum, doesn't it? Should you load up on 'normal' weapons to reduce the enemy shields, or include some Acid Globules to sear the actual ship to a crispy critter once the shields are gone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I also gave all the High-Energy Discharge weapons the 'Double Damage to Shields' damage type so they are a bit more valuable without having to be dramatically more powerful in 'normal' damage potential.

[ August 23, 2002, 22:21: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Great ideas. I'll incorperate this in my file. Any other tweak ideas. I'm thinking of making all plasma weapons set to skip armor. But Half Damage To Shields. Suddenly the plasma missile is not so bad.

Also decreasing the size of basic torp weapons from 40 to 30.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Changing the size messes up AI designs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Weaken APBs and PPBs somehow. They are too powerful. Maybe make PPBs be about 75% the strength of APBs, and require similar tech levels.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

APBs are IMO fine once you consider the research cost. PPB on the other hand..

Phoenix-D

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

APBs (esp. at high levels) are more powerful than any other "normal damage" weapon. This, IMHO, is not a good thing.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I made the Plasma Missle/Torpedo a "Quad Damage to Shields' type myself. Remember the 'enveloping' attack of MOO Plasma weapons... It's already got the disadvantage of range attenuation, which no other seeker has, and of course as a seeker it can be stopped by PDC. So, I think it's a reasonable boost in power for this weapon. But then I created a new racial tech 'Plasma Technology' to restrict who could actually research and use it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I wouldn't go tinkering too much with torpedos without careful thought. They are precariously balanced between 'ordinary' direct-fire weapons like APB and seekers. Reducing the size of the component by 10kt is a 25 percent change. Their size/damage ratio will be dramatically affected and they might become more 'efficient' than once-per-turn weapons like the APB. This is not good since they already have NO range attenuation and they hit harder (more damage at once) which makes them more effective against Emissive and Crystalline Armor. These are their advantages and there have to be some trade-offs like reduced total damage to keep them from being 'ultimate' weapons.

[ August 24, 2002, 14:32: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

But BM, they don't do enough damage to justify their use. LM or HM APBs can get through Emissive and Crystalline Armor easily.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Maybe Emissive Armor needs to be a bit stronger? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes, there is some balancing to be done yet with the combat model.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Yes, EA should be made stronger. There is a lot of balancing needed, not just some. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

I absolutely agree that in the standard SE IV game some weapons are very unattractive (you mentioned most of them) while other are just so good that you must use them.
I tried to change that a little bit and if you interested have a look at the QMod posted in the Mod section.
This is the great advantage of SE IV that you can change as much as you want!

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

I disagree with you on the torpedo size change. The problem with using them now is that they are to bulky to place on a ship. Drop the size to 30k and suddenly you might consider using them. Before I wouldn't waste my time with them.

I'm thinking of changing plama missile to armor peircing. With a reload of 3 this adds strategic value to this weapon.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Don't underestimate the advantage of an accuracy bonus.

Giving a 15% to 25% to-hit modifier to torpedoes will increase the amount of damage they do (more hits).

The magnitude of the effect is also highly variable. For a race who (at current tech) can only get a 25% to-hit against an enemy, the torpedoes are very attractive, providing double the damage you would normally expect.
For the race with 75% to-hit already, the increase in accuracy is insignificant.

This makes their effectiveness very dependent on the situation: they aren't ultimate weapons, but they aren't useless either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

There would be all sorts of fun with 'weapon tweaking' if MM would implement the other damage types I requested... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I think that just 'skips armor' is too simplistic. I want(ed) the armor ability and skips armor damage type to have levels like cloaking and sensors. So you could have Armor 1, Armor 2, Armor 3, and Skips Armor 1, etc... levels of armor strength and levels of armor piercing. All sorts of arms races could be built into the tech tree with this feature.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Yeah SJ, and that is what made them have a use in SE3. But, since they lost that in SE4, they aren't at all useful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And I believe I already suggested that in here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

BM, shield skipping should have that too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea, but he's got you one up: He's already done it in his mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Torpedos should be a high damage, slow to fire weapon. In SE3 they had a to hit bonus too. I would like that bonus added back in.

A few more weapons with To Hit Bonuses could balance out the Talisman.

Why stop tweaking there???

IMHO all armor should be emissive to some extent. In RL firing massive numbers of BBs at a tank is useless, same for 22 bullets.

Ships Bridge, Crew Quarters, Life support and engines should be scaled to hull size and cheaper overall.

The big ships should get the heavier armor with the higher emissive ability.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

Just to go down a path. Recently been experimenting with taking mine sweepers out of the game, but not mines. What if you did the same with PDC.

Take them out of the game. Make missles reload slower or make them larger, so not to make them an uber-weapon.

Why do we think it should be possible to negate any missle attack? You can't do that with any other weapon.

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

That idea has merit actually. Give them lower damage more in line with direct fire weapons as well.

Alternativly, you could keep the PDC, but decrease their range. Make them a one or two range weapon. That should pretty much require their use on every ships wouldn't it? You wouldn't have these "Ageis Class" destroyers capable of repelling the missles for an entire fleet then.

Also, with the new patch it is possible to make separate classes of PDC. Ones that can target only fighters, and ones that can target only seekers.

Geoschmo

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

"Why do we think it should be possible to negate any missle attack? You can't do that with any other weapon."

Seekers cannot miss; direct fire weapons CAN.

Phoenix-D

Re: Weapon tweaking
 

I think what Mensch is thinking about though is the problem with SEIV combat, really it's a problem with SEIV in general, is that so many things are all or nothing.

You either sweep all the mines, or the mines destroy all your ships.

You either shoot down all the missles, or they get through and destroy yoru ships.

In combat you either have the advantage in ECM and kill all their ships, taking little or none to yourself, or your enemy does and he wipes out your entire fleet taking little damage to himself.

If there were more grey areas, you win the battle and wipe out his fleet, but all your ships are banged up and and you have to wait a few turns for repairs to continue the campaign. You get through the first minefield, but you have to repair your swwepers or your armor before pressing on through the next one, the game wouldn't feel so abrupt at times.

Geo