Cant figure this out.
 

I guess I am just too dumb to figure this out...

If I get/capture/whatever a different population, do they retain ANY of their traits (except atmosphere breathing) ?? They always seem to be unhappy or rioting. I use UPC’s, etc. Are they treated exactly like your starting population except for breathing or am I missing something? Are they more likely to riot? what am I doing wrong?

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Yes, they lose all race-specific traits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

To make them loyal, drop a lot of troops into that planet. Also station a BIG fleet around it. Eventually everything will be all right. SE handle planet mood in step-wise fashion: every turn the mood either increases or decreeses depending of all factors involved. Your urbam pacification centers will make them all happy eventually.

[ August 29, 2002, 19:13: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Troops work in proprotion to population. So in addition to the troop drop, load as much population on the transport.

If the transport is full, and they're still rioting -- well, just wrestle between your conscience and the ol' jettison cargo button.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No. Every characteristic of the race except the atmosphear they breath changes to YOUR race characteristics, so if you modified the anger files of your race to never riot, they will never riot, or quickly go to indifference or better (In Theory)

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

In one of the text files a troop = 0.3 happiness. So 16 troops will give a +5 per turn. There is a limit on the happiness change per turn depending on attitude choice (bloodthirsty, peacefull, nuetral)text file. In those files you will find ships, treaties, enemy ships, mentioned along with a value that can slowly return happiness to normal.

Exploite fixes should prevent the old "replace population" dodge and the "wash attitude on transport" dodge.

----------------------------------------------
There must be 50 ways to do your population.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Thanks!

related Q:
do populations "forget" their happiness when moved onto a transport?

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AFAIK this is the case IF you move them to another planet. If you just load them up to the transport then right back down then no I don't believe they do forget. But I could be mistaken. Wouldn't be the first time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No. Every characteristic of the race except the atmosphear they breath changes to YOUR race characteristics, so if you modified the anger files of your race to never riot, they will never riot, or quickly go to indifference or better (In Theory)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I think alien populations do have a negative happiness modifier in the data files.

PvK

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

ok, now I am confused again. If the "alien" race does get angered over being part of my race, then they are retaining some of their racial traits. The Happiness and AI_Anger files don't explicitly talk about this and I don't know if they even apply - if it is true that they lose their racial traits.

Does anyone know for sure 100% the answer to the question: Do captured alien colonists behave EXACTLY like one of yours except for atmosphere breathing? They sure SEEM to get pissed off easily.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Alien populations in your empire retain their atmospheric preference and I believe they will also lean toward rioting when some of their native population enters the system and you are at war with them.

That's the only difference betweeen them and your population.

It would be so cool if they retained *all* their attributes...

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nobody except MM knows something 100% sure about SE IV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .
But as far as I know there are only two differences of captured population to your own: the atmosphere they breathe and the "natural decrease for other races" of happiness as stated in your race happiness file. The latter I tested not long ago and it seems to work indeed.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's just plain cruel but quite effecitive. I'll haver to remember this one next time the population is "questioning my authority" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I swear the only reason MM put that feature in is to satisfy power-crazed sickos like us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

By default, native populations have an anger decrease, while all enemy populations have an anger increase. They're not keeping their own characteristics, though; you could mod a special happiness trait for your race, and even standard alien races would follow your happiness type.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a little bit more complicated as explained in a other topic on happiness:
The standard negative value of happiness decrease for your races moves the happiness towards indifferent. The standard positive value of happiness decrease for foreign races moves their happiness toward extremes, either angry or jubiliant. You could call this a choleric behaviour.
And your are right if the two values of the natural decrease are identical the happiness of your race and foreign races you captured will be identical.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

believe it or not, what I usually do is just that - jettison the colonists because dealing with rioting is too much of a pain. I am trying to find a good reason to keep them.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You must play Proportions then - every 1m of different atmosphere aliens are priceless, I always buy another 6pack of beer when I get them !

[ August 30, 2002, 18:42: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I swear the only reason MM put that feature in is to satisfy power-crazed sickos like us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Open Airlock!..........POOF!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I just leave my troops on the planet for a turn and all is fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ August 30, 2002, 18:56: Message edited by: mottlee ]

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Reguarding the mood of captured planets.
Frequently I have captured a planet and the race is Happy. I have noticed this happens in systems where I enter and capture within just a few turns. Planets in the same system that are captured sevearl turns later seem to be less accepting of their Liberation.
I'm speculating that the "Liberated" populous has the same mood from befor it was "Liberated" The longer my ships are there the worse the mood of the population.
Am I off base here?

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Hi Q http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a little bit more complicated as explained in a other topic on happiness:
The standard negative value of happiness decrease for your races moves the happiness towards indifferent. The standard positive value of happiness decrease for foreign races moves their happiness toward extremes, either angry or jubiliant. You could call this a choleric behaviour.
And your are right if the two values of the natural decrease are identical the happiness of your race and foreign races you captured will be identical.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In the thread "Happiness...driving me to dispair", I paraphrased Q's research on a empires native population as follows:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Essentially, all things being equal, the native population of a empire will move towards an "indifferent" happiness state.

Q says this changes with a alien population. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif He seems to be saying there is no self-centering process with an captured population of an alien race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Y/N?

If yes, then in a peaceful race, wouldn't the two processes cancel each other out and all things being equal wouldn't the state of the alien population be either "happy" or "unhappy" but would not proceed any further to either extreme (i.e. Jubilant or rioting)?

Of course, the situation is different if one is running a "bloodthirsty race" or "neutral race" as the two processes do not cancel each other out.

Editing note: The 2 processes for a Peaceful empire are:
1) Natural decrease - own empire (as discribed above.) which is 20 points or 2%
2) Natural decrease - others which is 20 points or 2%

#1 above changes for a "bloodthirsty race" being 2 points or .2% and for a "neutral race" being 50 points or 5%

[ August 31, 2002, 14:27: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Gryphin said:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This checks with my observations. In a recently completed war, the first few planets I "liberated" were jubilant, the next few were happy. Then I began getting indifferent followed by unhappy. The Last half dozen were angry! I have no doubt that had the war gone on a little longer, I would have had riots on my hands.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1.) Yes (if using the standard value
"Natural Decrease for Other Races := 20"
but this can be modded).
2.) No: It can't cancel each other because the natural decrease is either that of your native race or the one of other races but not both combined.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wouldn't both apply to a planet with more than one race on it?

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1.) Yes (if using the standard value
"Natural Decrease for Other Races := 20"
but this can be modded).
2.) No: It can't cancel each other because the natural decrease is either that of your native race or the one of other races but not both combined.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So, the $64,000 question is when does the alien races's take precedent (or vice-versa)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

If 1 alien is on your planet, the entire population is treated as being alien. This applies to happiness, atmosphere compatibility, etc.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So, if the alien races characteristic always takes precedent, then there is no real or imagined conflict. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

Since the "Natural decrease - Others" is 20 for all types (Peacefull, Blood Thirsty and Neutral), then all things being equal, that planet should eventually riot.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure about this. In my tests even with larger values of the natural decrease (100) the happiness went to angry but not to riot after 10-20 turns.
May be I did not wait long enough but may be the natural decrease lowers the happiness only to angry not further. You may need other events like battle losses, foreign ships, plagues to push the happiness over the riot limit. But as said I am not sure about this.

Re: Cant figure this out.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure about this. In my tests even with larger values of the natural decrease (100) the happiness went to angry but not to riot after 10-20 turns.
May be I did not wait long enough but may be the natural decrease lowers the happiness only to angry not further. You may need other events like battle losses, foreign ships, plagues to push the happiness over the riot limit. But as said I am not sure about this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In my first game playing AI opponents, another race somehow became part of my empire. They were one planet and eventually riotted. I didn't know what to do at the time so they just continued to riot over many more turns. I was at the top of the game (totally dominating it) and was sustaining no battle losses or even ship losses. Foreign ships, plagues etc. were not an issue.