OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I'm sure we're all looking forward to this movie very much. At least I am. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif As you all may know that the Romulans are the feature bad guys in this one. I just came across the new Romulan Warbird for this movie. It's friggin sick! (in the good way of course) Take a look here. {link}

This ship is awesome. Very sleak and evil looking. My kind of ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Hope you all enjoy. I'm sure Atrocities will. If he hasn't come across this already of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

tradition has it, that this should be one of the good ones. either that, or i forgot which number we were on.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

from all the 'rumors' and cameos I have heard about it should be an 'interesting' movie to say the least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So long as it does NOT feature the Borg or Time Travel I will be happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (though I always did say that the best solution to the Shapeshifter threat in DS9 was to let the Borg know where their homeworld was http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[ August 30, 2002, 06:40: Message edited by: Deathstalker ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I don't think the Borg could assimilate the Changelings. They would just stare at them dumb-founded like they do with anything they can't assimilate or understand and get picked off one-by-one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Ragnarok thanks for posting the image. I had hoped someone would find one. I did post about the Trailer when it came out over a month ago, but I did not have any images of the new Romulan ships. Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Glad that others have taken an interest in the movie. Your right, I will enjoy it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Hope to see you there too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WHAT ARE YOU INSANE?!?!?!?!?

Then we'd've just had to deal with SHAPESHIFTING BORG ... *sigh* ...

lol j/k. heh.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

"Ragnarok thanks for posting the image. I had hoped someone would find one. I did post about the Trailer when it came out over a month ago, but I did not have any images of the new Romulan ships. Thanks."

Hey man no problem. I knew you'd enjoy that more then anyone. I knew you were one of the biggest star trek fans on here so yeah. I'm also a huge trekkie. Have been ever since I was a kid. But I will be there hopefully on opening night. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Just to beat anybody who has the same idea:
I converted the snapshot to SEIV friendly 128x128 bmp image. I believe it will make a nice addition to Atrocities' or anybody else Romulan shipset:

1030732651.bmp

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Nice work, now all we need is a top down image. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was something like 4 when the neighbor kid turned me onto it. He had models of star ships and such. The very first episode I watched was the one with the salt sucking creature. After that I was hooked. No one else in my family likes the show. Well thats wrong, now that enterprise is out, my Dad likes it. I must admit, the series is a pleasent one to watch with good acting, and good stories so far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ August 30, 2002, 20:19: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I watched every ST:TOS and ST:TNG episodes. DS9 and, what is the correct acronism for 7of9 show, really and I mean REALLY, disapointed me. Not surprisngly, my attention was glued to the best ever(IMHO, of course) SF show - Babylon5. But Enterprize really rocks - very nice and solid show. I can hardly wait for the second season !

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I tape every show and then watch them all in re-runs.

Seven of nine WHat a babe.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Enterprise second run airs sept 18 and I have my pvr aready to tape it.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Ok, here is mini-picture. it corresponds more or less to lightcruiser/cruiser slot. I can scale it up or down upon the request:
1030752748.BMP

Good for you, Dracus. Here in UK I'm afraid we will have to wait for 6+ monthes before paramaunt and C4 agree about royalties http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

It's a nice looking ship - very sleek. It's also very massive - 115 decks say the specs.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

115 Decks?????? My god, its got to be a Battleship or dreadnaunght in SE4 terms. This ship might out-do a Soverign!

Hey, I do have a couple of questions about this movie though.

First-Does the Dominion War play an effect on how this story is going work? I mean, the Dominoin War was a very large and important war. I find it hard to beleive it wouldn't have major effects in the future.

Second-About the Show Enterprise, are we ever going to see Starfleet make first contact with the Romulans? I don't know if Enterprise is anywhere similar to SFB, but in SFB part of the reason the Federation was formed was because of the devestating effects the Romulan/Fed war in the 22nd Century. I would have sworn the Romulan War was etheir just before or just after the Federation was formed (at least in SFB terms).

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

There is an episode coming up where the Enterprise NX-01 runs into a romulan mine field. I think it's slated at episode 3 for the season.

They have also invited John Logan to script any romulan shows he wants to do and are being extremely careful abotu handling the romulans.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I personally try to pretend that Voyager never really happened, as well as parts of DS9. Those two shows really took Star Trek away form 'meeting new life and new civilizations' to 'meeting and killing new life and battling new civilizations'. Having 2 Star Trek shows on at a time was a bit much as well.

I can see that Enterprise might be drawn into the flashy special effects, big explosions, super spaceships, and major battles that obsessed DS9 and Voyager, notably with their obsession of time travel. However, the best thing that I have noticed about Enterprise is that they are getting back to the basics, charactor development over special effects. They do not have the same two dimensional and very boring characters that filled the Last two shows. In DS9 and Voyager, they all got along too well, it was like watching Full House, but in space.

I started watching Star Trek as a kid. Actually, my mother watched Star Trek when it was rerun in the late 60's and early 70's. I watched every episode of TNG, but lost interest in DS9 and Voyager and then became a fan of B5.

(I actually saw a picture of the new Romulan Warbird a few months ago, and was very dissappointed in it. At the time, it was very silver and non-Romulan looking. It was possibly just the angle that the picture was, but this one looks a heck of a lot better!)

[ August 31, 2002, 15:38: Message edited by: Major Tom ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I saw that same picture, it was a pre-production picture I think. Like the ones they mock up for the producers to see.

I did a little bit more digging and found that Rick Berman wants to be very careful about the Romulans because it was firmly established that no one had seen them until Kirk's era.

So for the romulans in Enterprise, I understand the helmsman, mayweather, will be piloting the good ship across a minefield with expert ability....

something about it makes me say "Petal to the Metal, Commander!"

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Well, that is good to hear that the Romulans will be introduced in Enterprise. And I'm glad to hear that they are "Being careful" with the Romulans in the show. But I still think they should include some sort of war between Starfleet and the Romulans. From stuff I have read by both Star Trek stuff and SFB stuff, the war Lasted a few years and was very devestating to both sides. And like I said before, in the SFB universe, the Romulan War was basically why the Federation was formed. It would be neat if they setup the series like this in comming seasons...

-First Contact with Romulans by attack of a Terran vessel (can't remember in my readings if it was a Cargo ship or an Exploration ship).
-Over the next few months, more and more incidents of Romulan incursions (etheir by attacks or espionage) on other races and even Terran ships and colonies (I assume their might be a few Terran OutPosts by the 22nd century).
-Many nearby races get in a panicked situation and start waring against Romulans, or attack other races due to Romulan involvment (I could see some very interesting episodes if it was built this way).
-After a couple of seasons, Starfleet and maybe even Vulcans find true intentions by Romulans and try too form an Alliance against the Threat.
-War starts between the Romulans and the Alliance. Last for a few years with devestating loses and results in a stalemate.
-Neutral Zone is established by way of Sub-space Radio and rules are established between governments.
-Just After War, with such devestating loses to Alliances forces, a centralized government is formed (with opposition of course) between races which form the core of what we see today of the Federation. An new force within the Alpha Quadrant to supress the Evil Romulan Empire. Takes decades for the new Alliance to root itself into the publics trust, but time heals all wounds.
-Just after the Federation is formed, Section 31 is secretly established by parinoid individuals in order to keep the Federation intact at any cost.

By the Way, what ever they do, they should make the Romulans Warp Capable. Even if their War Engines are subpar to Starfleets, it wouldn't be logical to have the romulans such a threat without Warp Technology. They may have inferior Warp engines, but their weapons (Plasma Torpedos, Cloaks) make up for that big time. The Klingons should probably not be involved with this becuase they might have had a war with the Romulans in the past and figure it was best to be kept out of it.

I know, just my theory and pretty war like. Although Major Tom may disagree with me about involving War to the Stat Trek Series, I liked DS(I agree about Voyager, it was getting cheesy on how easy to destroy borg) but I really liked the Dominion War. What ever people think how bad war is, it does play a major role on how societies are formed and how much it impacts history.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

The only way they could introduce the Romulans is to keep that and any contact top secret. That way it can be explained why Kirk and crew did not know what they looked like.

Look at it this way, if Earth knew that the Romulans of Enterprises era were Vulcan, and given the already tense relationship, they would openly expel the Vulcans as Romulans thus destroying any future relationship with the Vulcans.

Its like keeping people in the dark about the end of our civilization. To tell us would instil panic. Better to keep it quite and let us continue to live our meger lives to the bitter end.

The enterprise D had something like 49 decks, the E has half that. So any ship with a 115 decks would have to be a Star Base in Trek terms.

[ September 01, 2002, 06:56: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

For no any good reason except to please TV audience, ships always transmit captain's videos. If Romulans will sensibly refuse to follow ST broadcasting standards, the long and bloody war when no one ever saw the face of the enemy is more than possible, I would even say likely. BTW, we have problems with Pal, Secam and NTSC Tv encoding back here at home, but when two aliens meet, they all Subscribe to the same video standard ! Of course, TV viewers can still enjoy close-ups of hot romulans denied to Captain Archer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Here's how I seem the doing the romulans. You know how the vulcans are all a bunch of jerks on Enterprise and the andorians are fighting the vulcans. Suppose the romulans subverted vulcan and the war was trying to drive the romulans off vulcan - but no one knew the romulans were on vulcan.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

??????? I'm a little confused by that Hadrian. Could you please explain that again. Are you saying that ST:Enterprise should make it where the Romulans occupy or influence Vulcan doctrine? Is that what you mean?

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Oh, and one other thing. What ever they do on ST:Enterprise, I sure hope they are very careful with this time thing. On that Last episode of Enterprise, they keep messing with this time stuff and that race that somehow everybody knows but no one likes, yet is never mentioned in the future (you know, the guys that can manipulate their bodies by their genetics). I'm really worried Enterprise is messing with the time stuff a little too much. The only episode I have ever saw that dealt with Time stuff well was a couple of TOS episodes and the TNG episode "yesterdays Enterprise" (My personal favorite).

I don't mind ST:Enterprise using time in their story plots, but they need to be very careful because since they use so many different writers to make their stories, inconsistancies seem to occure easily.

But at least it is good to hear that they do want to introduce the Romulans.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Lemme clear up my hopes for the romulan war.

It always ran on my mind that the only way the war could have been that serious and have the romulans remain unknown was to use the vulcans.

The Vulcans and Andorians have this cold war thing going on, maybe fore a good reason. Perhaps the Romulans are secretly manipulating the Vulcans to expand thier empire. Weaken thy enemy before weaken thyself.

Soval always struck me as being on the emotional side.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

A good possibility. I agree, their have been a few Vulcans that could be Romulans. Why couldn't they infiltrate Vulcan. I guess we will have to wait and see if Paramount will add the Romulan War or not.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

the good thing is that they arranged Enterprise to end it's run just before the formation of the Federation.

Perhaps the Romulan war never happened, but was made up to cover up the Temporal Cold War.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Well, I don't know any of the SFB history, but from what I have read and understood over the 3 decades I've been a Trekkie, there was no visual contact between the terran (or federation) fleets and the Romulans. Now either the Romulans didn't have that kind of technology at the time (subspace transmissions), or they were very xenophobic and didn't want anyone to know what they looked like. Now, whether they knew they resembled Vulcans or not was unclear, but Berman made up for that in ST:TNG. One of the few things that has always bugged me about the Star Trek franchis is the use of language. It seems like every race speaks English (or Basic or whatever you want to call it) even when they are met for the first time. A univeral translator can only do so much. That's one thing I like about Enterprise, where they have to learn every new language. Maybe that's what caused the first Terran/Federation vs Romulan war; a simple lack of knowledge of each other's language and customs. It would be interesting once they do show this war to show the creation of the Federation. That would bring the Andorians and Tellarites into the treaty, and if I'm not mistaken, Alpha Centauri was the fifth founding race. I can't wait for September 18 to see the new season.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Hey, I do have one question about all this Romulan stuff on ST:Enterprise. On the episode "Silent Enemey" (I think that is what the episode is called) when that ship (which seem to have a clocking device, could that have been a Romulan ship? When my brother and I first saw that episode, we figured "hey, maybe these are the Romulans that the crew finally runs into" yet we see some sort of creatures that board the Enterprise and then we thought "man, they sure don't look like Romulans I have ever seen".

I mean, Archer fires a Phase Pistol at them and it didn't even seem to bother them. Could it be possible that it was a Romulan ship and those creaters where etheir allied to the Romulans or controled by the Romulans somehow? Or maybe they were holograms... er.. nah! Granted, a long shot, but the encounter between the the unknown ship and the Enterprise sure did "feel" like a Romulan encounter to me. I'll say one thing, if they are not romulan, they are definitly one of the weirdest races I have ever seeno on Star Trek, even in the 24th Century.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

However, from what I understand, cloaking was a new technology the Romulans developed when they fought Kirk. Their ships were also sublight vessels at that time as well. For them to keep a Romulan war realistic to Trek history it has to be primarily in space, (as any land battle would show Romulan bodies). Since Romulans were already shown to self destruct instead of surrendering, knowing what they look like will be very difficult. I do hope that they do not get into what DS9 did, and just have a big all consuming war. The war could be just a few episodes long, not a few seasons.

I am also miffed at a lot of what is going on in Enterprise. All of these technologically advanced aliens they are meeting really confuses me. Virtually all of the space that Enterprise is flying through is Federation territory by TOS. However, many aliens they encountered in Enterprise were vastly superior to them. So why would they become members of a federation sponsored by technologically inferior beings? Where did all of these 'new' races go? So far, all that we have seen from any other Star Trek episode are...

1. Humans
2. Vulcans
3. Klingons
4. Andorians
5. Ferrengi (for some reason they decided to introduce the Ferrengi in Enterprise, when they were unknown even when Picard fought them. This makes me feel that the Romulans will be done in a similar way, the crew will know them, but will feel that it is too unimportant to report to Starfleet for some unknown reason).

I may be missing 1 or two, but the vast majority of new life they are meeting is just new and too unbelievably powerful to just dissappear. What's next? The Borg?

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">oh please tell me you just made up that bit about the TCW? please?

I gave up watching enterprise after the first episode (shortly before that, actually) when i became fed up with the lack of continuity not only between trek serise, but from one episode to the next. lack of thought put into story arcs, temporal un-doings of events, and no direction to anything. things only make sense when over zealous fans make up excuses for why the trek universe is not COMPLETELY ridiculous, and then those theories are promptly over-ridden when some new episode comes out.

Tell me there isnt really a temporal cold war in the trek universe! thats the final straw of absurdity that would completely un-do anything any of the old episodes or old serise have ever accomplished. it just does not get any worse than that.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Well, can definitly agree with many of your points Puke and Major Tom about a lot of your points. I still wouldn't mind to see though a Romulan War because even though. As much as many Star Trek "purists" would like to shy away from wars, it did Last a few years and was a bloody war (not something that Lasted a couple of weeks and then ended). Doesn't mean ST:Enterprise will even do it, they may actually do what you said Major Tom. Also, although their is much literature that says that the Romulans were only Pre-warp until TOS eara, I really find that hard to beleive. I can't see the Romulans being a Threat to anybody if they didn't have some sort of Warp Capability. Even at Warp 1, it would take Decades to reach some of the Star Systems in the show. In the episodes that introduced the Romulans, I would have sworn that Spock only said the ship they were battling was "Sublight". I never heard anything in that episode (or other episodes) that all Romulan ships were sublight. Maybe only that ship was sublight was because the ships Plasma Torpedo and Clocking Device took up a lot of space on the Ship and the ships generator didn't have enough power to make warp Velocities (low power Warp engines perhaps).

As for this Temporal War stuff, I do agree with you Puke, its beginning to really worry me too. I don't mind Star Trek using Time in episodes, but it can really makes things hairy for explanations. The only episodes I have ever seen in Star Trek that I liked that ever dealt with time was the TNG Episode "Yesterdays enterprise" and a few Episodes of TOS, DS9, and TNG that dealt with time as more of a Random phenomina. Like for example when the Enterprise-D was stuck in a Time Bubble with a Romulan ship and Picard, Gordie, Troi, and Data had to figure it out. Or when the Bozeman was stuck in a Time loop for 80 years. Those kind of episodes intrigue me. When I see crews going back and forth through time and able to change the future in one episode then in another episode can't change the effects of time makes me quite angry at these writers. And this Temperoal War Stuff is sort of a facinating idea for a story, but I can see how this could REALLY mess things up with the whole Star Trek universe. Even Star Trek: First Contact (a great action Star Trek movie) didn't even approch the time thing right. Ok, maybe the Borg do have the ability to travel through time, but that sort of opens a pandoras box! Why not just keep sending another Borg ship to Fed Space (or a whole fleet) to the past? And why was it so easy for the Ent-E to get back to the future? I think Star Trek should just dabble with time only sparadically and make it make sense where it doesn't screw up other episodes in other series.

I think I will still keep watching Enterprsie, but I very Wary lately.

P.S. I do agree with Major Tom about the Ferengi. Even if this did occur that a few Ferengi where around the Core systems in the 22nd century, they are a LOOOOOONNNNGGG way from home. I mean, their homeworld is what... probably 2500 to 3000 light years away??? I guess they got some fine warp engines on this older ships huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Oh, and another thing I'm not all thrilled with the Star Trek show is... well... a lot of things.

Like for example, the design of the ship. It looks like an upside down Akira! Why not just design the ship with some TOS aspects to it. Granted, in the 1960's they didn't have anywhere near the Movie special effect capabilities we have today, but a TOS designed ship with some touchups here and their and superfical redesigning could actually make a fine vessel even for todays shoot'em up kids of the 21st Century.

Also, whats up with these Starfleet Admirals??? They seem like a bunch of whimps compared to the other series. I bet Archer could give orders to them!

And I do agree (yet again) about these races they are meeting. Some are so advanced that you wonder where the heck they are by the 23rd Century! And why do we have the Enterprise heading to Risa in the 22nd Century? Isn't it a bit farther away from earth then that? I was sort of hoping to see Enterprise just dealing with some races and visiting worlds in the nearby area (like Vulcan) and show some of the first Intersteller Colonies of humans in the nearby area (like didn't humans settle on Alpha Centauri). Maybe have first contact with Klingons but I seriously doubt Humans would be able to visit the Homeworld until years later. I don't know how much are NX-01 has covered, but I with a Warp Capability of warp 4 (max average), I find it hard to beleive that Enterprise has traveled farther then a 50 light year radius.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Sadly, the NX-01 design was lifted from the Akira class, Excelsior, and a few others. The designers of the NX-01 say they based in on the p-38 fighter. Yeah, sure.
There was a design similar, and a likely precursor to the 1701 of kirk, but Berman rejected saying Kirk's enterprise looked like a toy.

I've seen some nice fan made ones and even tried at making my own for a while.
http://www.spaceempires.org/gallery/fan/nx01a.gif
http://www.spaceempires.org/gallery/fan/nx01b.gif

Overall, I'm disappointed with Enterprise for the lack of original story telling. We've had what, 5 shuttle crash episodes in the first season, please, even voyager had less than that in the firt season.

The Temporal Cold War was actually another TV series that was going to be made by Braga, but paramount didn't pick up on it so they wrote it into Star Trek. They decided to toss it into Enterprise to silence the people that bash them for not being consistant.

Enterprise is the final deathblow for star trek. I am looking forward to seeing Star Trek Nemesis, but that will most likely be the end of my Trek days. Gene Roddenberry would change his name to Iben Scrood if he saw that [Enterprise] travesty....

In terms of mature, develoepd sci-fi, this is my ranking on a 1-10 scale. 10 is the most grown up.

Farscape : 10
Stargate SG1 : 10
Jerimiah : 8
Odyssey 5 : 9
Andromeda : 1
Enterprise : 2
Earth: Final conflict: 1
Voyager : 1
DS9 : 9
TNG : 9
TOS : 5

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Don't forget Babylon 5!!
It most defently scores a 10.

Oh, and Space: Above and Beyond. Not too perfect, but not bad. I say it scores a 7.

[ September 04, 2002, 15:57: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I like Enterprise as a whole. I am a big fan of Scott Bakula, and the acting and writing for Enterprise are way better I think then the first couple TNG seasons. So far it's not been as good as TNG at it's best, or DS9 at it's worst, but if it develops the way the others did I think it will be fine.

However, the Temporal cold war thing is simply aweful. And there are a LOT of dicontinuities from the other series as others have pointed out. I had to give up on those after a couple episodes and simply take it as a separate show. Call it an alternate reality, or whatever. It does make it more enjoyable and tolerable. And you start to see the good points then when you aren't so hung up on those major gaffs.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I enjoy Enterprise for the most part, although they've had a few clunkers. I think it's getting off to a better start than some of the other series. I look forward to the second season.

The movie Nemesis looks like it's going to be good with lots of space battles and action. Yay!

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Well, I for one don't like the shortened length of each episode. If I remember right, each hour of TV is now roughly only 42 minutes, as compared to the original Trek time of 51 minutes. That's a lot of difference in time, and sometimes they have to have something done off-camera to get the episode done in the allotted time. Every once in awhile I think that I'm watching a 2 parter, when actually whatever they're talking about just wasn't filmed. That to me is really annoying. IF they're going to do that, stop trying to tell 2 stories per episode and just tell one story like they did in the original show.

[ September 04, 2002, 18:41: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Hey, I keep forgetting to ask this question about Star Trek, but who is this Berman guy anyway? I've heard a lot of negative things about him. Diddn't he write most of the Episodes of DS9? I liked DS9 personally, but if this is the same guy, why was Voyager and Enterprise such lousy Star Trek shows? I don't know much about the writers of ST so some info about this guy would be appreciated.

You have got to be kidding me! They added the Temperal War stuff from another shows idea??? Talk about trying to use the system!!! They have basically ruined the whole ST universe just so some writers could get their idea across. Pathetic! Actually, I find it hard to beleive how humanity could acheive Time travel within a few centuries when we see a lot of other races in Star Trek (old ones like 500,000 years old) that were still not cabable of traveling through time. What makes us so special anyway?

I agree, ever since Gene Rodenbery died, without his approval/disapproval, Star Trek has been on very Wary ground. Doesn't his wife have any say on these episodes? On the other hand, even if she did, maybe she has been approving this episodes and series.

here are my list of favorite shows

Babylon 5: 10
DS9: 9
TNG: 8
VOY: 1
TOS: 5
SG1: 8
Farscape: 6

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Berman was Roddenberry's assistant or producer or something like that. When Roddenberry died, Berman was picked to head the Star Trek franchise. He was the one who developed, along with others, all of the spin-off shows, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. I don't think Majel Barrett has much influence over the shows, other than providing the computer voices. I stopped reading all of the production info on the shows, so I really don't know more than that. There's probably some die hard Trekkie who could tell you much more than that.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Berman and Braga are the current executive producers of the entire trek franchise. Berman was hand picked by Roddenberry to lead the franchise.
On DS9, he handled the studio-production link and gave the writers free range to do what they want (something forbidden on nearly all shows even now). In response to the poor viewing results of DS9, voyager was a total clampdown.

Majel was pretty much run off the series after DS9. Majel has also stopped her involvement with Tribune Entertainment after they destroyed EFC and Andromeda. I think all she gets is the meager royalties from the various franchises roddenberry made.

The Temporal Cold War is just a gimmic to attact the x-file viewers now. As a seperate show (and universe), it would have been interesting to see.

Babylon 5 : 8
Space Above and Beyond : 3
I just never felt comfortable with the Overwhelming aspects of christian religion (while totally ignoring all others) in babylon 5, but it gains points for perfect handling. Space:A&B suffers from the slipping of nazism into the series.

In the TOS era, TV shwos ran around 50 minutes, in the TNG to Voy era they ran about 45.
In Enterprise, the episodes run roughly 38 minutes.

I could accept everything going on in Trek as an alternate reality type stuff except for one thing. Gene Roddenberry wrote the series as what humanity should be in this reality.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

My sci-fi television shows rank as follows (when it comes to space war like shows like these).

Babylon 5: 10 (except for that Last season)

Farscape: 11 (either you love this show, or hate it)

TOS: 10 (I can watch any episode of this, simple plot, character oriented)

TNG: 8 (was excellent during the middle, early too cheezy, late too boring [signs of what to come after Rodenberry died])

DS9: 5 (was ok, but definite rip off of B5 epic-battles, and done too poorly)

VOY: 1 (never watched this beyond the odd episode)

Earth Final conflict: 0 (knew some people who worked on the set, it was very cheaply done, even from behind the scenes)

Third Wave: 8 (got caught up in this, only to realize it was cancelled the year before)

Stargate SG1: 9 (never watched this until there was nothing on during a particular boring part of the day, started watching it, and it really caught on. Simple 1 topic plots, character development, added applicable humour at parts, same 4 people, keeps continuity in plot. Really reminded me of TOS)

G vs. E (good vs. evil): 9 (sort of a sci-fi, all about dead demon hunters (basically neutral people working their way into heaven after they die) done in a 1970's style, yet again cancelled)

The absolute best thing that ever came out of the Star Trek universe, according to me, is 'Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan'. It was an unbelievably bad script, but was done very well. To me, this is what Star Trek is. ONE main plot, the starship all by itself solving its problem, action, using skill over technology [what star trek was until late TNG decided it was technology over skill].

Realistically, Star Trek died with Rodenberry. The rest are merely cover-bands or Elvis impersonators.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

G vs E was a great show....

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I'll throw my Ratings in here. Maybe someone should start a poll?

B5: 9.5 - just about perfectly executed plot arc. A bit dodgy in the first series, and some distinctly wooden acting in places, but overall a near- perfect blend of space opera and personal drama.

Farscape: 8 Good characters, decent plots and a break from the same old same old "guys in uniforms uphold human values of truth & justice". A bit episodic but very fresh and imaginative. Loses marks for not having a handy TLA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

DS9: 7 The best of the Treks. The competition from Bab5 did it a lot of good, IMHO when it started to introduce politics & (gasp!) story arcs.

TNG: 6 A bit cheesy & episodic by today's standards, but I remember it looking fantastic when it first came out. It really did a lot for sci-fi at that time. Oh, and Patrick Stewart is the most convincing starship Captain ever.

SG1: 5 Nothing amazingly good about it, but nothing wrong with it either. Good for a Sunday afternoon if it's on TV. If I watched more of it I could probably get into it.

TOS: 4.5 Silly, silly, silly. Hopelessly outdated, with hardly any continuity and shallow cowboy characters. You can hardly class it as sci-fi, but it did something amazing for the genre and it gets points for that.

VOY: 4 Formulaic and dull. This did nothing new or interesting, it just gave everyone what they expected while pandering to the lowest possible denominator. Just about watchable, I suppose.

Enterprise: ?Never watched it. Don't intend to.

Space A&B: 2 Overly militaristic techno gun-porn. It's a while since I watched any but I remember thinking it was way too far to the right, and not in an ironic "Starship Troopers" way. It had a few moments of watchability, but by & large, unentertaining crud.

Andromeda: 2 Pretty crap so far, it reminds me more of that ****ty space precinct than anything else, although I confess I've only seen 3 or 4 episodes. Far too glossy for me. The Captain badly needs a haircut.

And for my "whatever happened to..?" entry, I nominate the excellent "Alien:Nation", about a few million of aliens who get stranded on earth and become the new ethnic underclass. There was a buddy cop element, and some realy good characters. I seem to remember they left a series a cliffhanger then cancelled the show! NOOOOO!

[ September 05, 2002, 16:39: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

I agree, G vs E was good. Maybe a 5, but only loow because I missed a lot of episodes in it.

Seven Days: I would about a 6. Lost it's power in the Last season.

SU2: 4. Needed work. Reminded me a lot of G vs E.

There was many other subplots to Star Trek II, it wasn't single minded.
- The crew is getting older and moving on in life (echoed in ST6:TUC)
- New crew is coming in
- Can't cheat death
- Great things and inventions are often preverted into weapons.
- Scientist vs Soldiers
- Things that might have been.

The director handled it so perfectly, it all meshed together into one plot. Similar to great Trek episodes like "city on the edge of forever, Doomsday machine, and even Yesterday's Enterprise"

A few of those points were carried over by John Logan for Star Trek Nemesis, and for good reason.

The Next Generation is 15 years old, and riker is still a first officer???

For those that want a funny tidbit into trek, Ensign Hawk in Star Trek: First Contact was supposed to be the first gay character on star trek. The scenes showing that was edited out....

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What I meant by that was Enterprise as an alternate reality to TOS or TNG. All of them are in our future, so you can say any one of them could be our reality to come. It's just that when they start messing around and have these inconsistancies between series, and even between different episodes in the same series I have stopped trying to crowbar them all and make them fit one single timeline. The writers obviously don't care about that, including Roddenbery before he died, so why should I? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe the first gay regular character (although I am not so sure that Bashir wasn't just chasing Dax as a cover. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) but one of them (Voyager I think) had an episode where they visited a planet where everyone was gay. One of the alien scientists fell in love with one of the starfleet crew members of the opposite sex and it was all very scandalous. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Her people ended up "reprograming" her or something if I recall correctly.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That was TNG. The aliens were all androgynous (sp?) and it one of them fell for Riker. The fool. There were some nice touches to that ep, actually, although it got a bit silly towards the end.

It's interesting that Trek should shy away from something like the gay issue. The first ever episode of TOS was ground-breaking (and scandalous) at the time for showing an inter-racial kiss. I guess nowadays they're too scared they'll upset all those fans who tune in just to see 7 of 9 or whatever other gratuitous T&A fodder they have in Enterprise.

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Personally I'd like the next Trek series to be a Monty-Pythonesqe take on TOS. Like the Life of Brian, Trek style. From the perspective of a captain and crew in some backwater part of the galaxy. Use the same sets and costumes from TOS. And make them all perfectly aware of the Enterprise and the "Great Captain Kirk" getting all the good press.

It would be a hoot!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

Well, this subject got just a tad off topic! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif LOL...

One more question I do have about this Nemisis Movie. I don't want anybody to tell me any spoilers, but is this going to be the Last show of the TNG crew? I've heard on a few occassions that it could be.

I guess it would make sense too if it was the Last show of the TNG cast, 15 years and Riker still won't make captain??? Maybe he is scared of the big chair huh?

Re: OT: Star Trek Nemesis
 

"For those that want a funny tidbit into trek, Ensign Hawk in Star Trek: First Contact was supposed to be the first gay character on star trek. The scenes showing that was edited out...."

They carried over the plot to a recent StarTrek novel where you get to know the character quite well. (takes place just before First Contact).

And I'm surprised no one has mentioned the greatest sci-fi series of them all. Dr.Who http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif (rates a 10 in my book, at least the Tom Baker years do.)

That and alot of the best sci-fi is Animae in my mind (StarBlazers, Battle of the Planets, RoboTech, etc).

And another 'funny' trek tidbit. IIRC the Babylon5 show was pitched to the Trek guys first and they didn't like the idea, so they went on and made B5 themselves. Then of course Trek had its B5 clone (which is DS9 of course, the similarities are incredible!). Mind you of all the ST series I think I liked DS9 the most, Sisco (however you spell it) was an amazing actor (yes, I can't recall his real name right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ). But I did get real tired of the Kira/Odo thing and the fact that Worf was an 'intregal part of DS9' until a NextGen movie or novel came out where he was 'suddenly free' to save the day with his old Enterprise comrades.