Mail Order Monsters
 

yes, that certainly was a great game. Kudos to anyone who remembers it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

and no, this post has nothing to do with that game. you have been deceived.

I was thinking about the frequent newbie games of "all-players against the AI" on the PBW server, and thinking that its a shame that cooperative games for advanced (or mediocre, as in my case) players cant really work with the current state of the AI.

And I was wondering, as you may infer from the title of this post, if anyone has tried a "humans against AI" with Rollo's Devnull Space Monsters floating about. I figure, get as many human players as you can find, then drop in one monster race for every two or three humans. If any of the humans survive to victory, then it really will be "Kudos to the winner!"

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I sort of have an idea like this awhile back. But no one seemed to say anything about it. I was just going to have 1 monster race with about 5 or 6 humans. But I like your idea better - having 1 monster race for every 2 or 3 humans. If you set this game up I'd like to join in on it.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Ya, Puke. You're the king of hosting unique games. In fact, how about "Space Monster Junkyard Wars"? The theme would be multiple civilizations reduced to ruins by invading space monsters. The remnants of the those civilizations are left without their great scientists. They now must reach out and reclaim that technology to battle the space beasts.

This would dramatically alter game play. Players could win by allying and wiping out the infested junkyard.

Without research, could you mod each monster race to possess different tech levels? This way each would produce a variety of beasts of different complexity. Or could you alter your mod to allow research for the monsters, but block it for the humans?

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Never heard of "Mail Order Monsters" but the title sounds interesting, almost as intereting as this game is sounding...

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

never heard of Mail Order Monsters? GET OFF MY THREAD!

kidding. MOM was sort of like the modern (90's) console games "Monster Rancher." you are a stablemaster, and you have a fixed ammount of cash. you use this money to buy monsters, and then train them, and then genetically modify them with different things like chloropLasts or tentacles, or tails, or firebreath. you buy them weapons (melee weapons, bLasters, tank guns, tac-nukes, everything) and equipment. then you send them out and controll them as they fight your buddy, or the computer.

there is a strategic map where you manuver to fight in terrain that is favorable to your monster (some get on better in water and swamps, others better in mountains, some of the bastards fly). also on the strategic map, you can launch your nukes at each other.

if you make it down to tactical combat, thats where you use your claws, firebreath, autocannons, flamethrowers, shocking grasp, acid touch, tank guns, laser cannons, and anything else you might have.

Such a great game. made in the mid 80s, if i remember. I played it on a C64 at my friends house.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Puke,

This is a "remake", but requires two players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

http://www.soap.at/ats/mailomon.htm

While this is not the original, it shows promise...

www.theycamefromhollywood.com

Here is a game called Battallion, which is interesting:

http://www.evl.uic.edu/aej/AndyBattalionFAQ.html

Also, if you download a C64 emulator, you can play it until your eyes pop out! Wheee!

[ September 06, 2002, 17:16: Message edited by: sachmo ]

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

yeah, mail order monsters was cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

oh, and nice game idea from puke, too. I would like to play such a game.

Actually Quikngruvn and myself talked about something very similar recently as a twist for a 'big fat zero' game. very simply get four (or more) players in a quadrant with zero race points, add monsters with 3000-5000 points and medium to high http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif bonus.
sayonara, human cattle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Rollo

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Rollo, perhaps even easier and more deadly would be giving the Space Monster Colonizing capability http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
The spread should be...well Monsterous! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 07, 2002, 03:21: Message edited by: Taz-in-Space ]

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Not so sure about that, Taz. The way the monsters currently work, colonizing will be a problem. Most of the monster concept is based on the premise that they don't colonize.
They don't really need colonies to be dangerous. Their homeworlds are similar to Proportions Mod homeworlds with a 'monsterous' intel output. Resources are not a problem for them, since their hulls have such a large maintanence reduction that they actually produce resources. All their hulls have quantum reactor, so range is not a problem either.
If they would colonize, then there would be ways for a human to get a hold of their colonies and capture those super-facilities. Also I kinda like the way it currently works that you have to destroy their stars to beat them.

It certainly could be done and I believe I might have found a way to get around the intel problem in a different way. That way they would even be able to do some offensive intel without being too overwhelming. I might just do that and also create another monster race that behaves more like a 'swarm' that also seems to be interesting.

So, to make a long answer short: Yeah, could be done with a change of the current concept. But it certainly would not be easier than a few mouse clicks in the game setup, though.

Rollo

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Yea, I played a game AS the Space Monsters. You all ought to try it. You can colonize worlds and create custom ships, not just monsters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif You have access to the technology tree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And boy with colonizing, you kick major butt! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Furthermore, you can protect those colonies with space stations equipped with the monster cloaking device, which I think makes the planet and all items in that sector totally invisible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif A very one sided game, but that is the whole point when you are an undulating mass of tentacles bent on the wholesale destruction of the universe!

(evil cackle) MUAH HA HA HA HA.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Oh, ya. I almost forgot. It would be cool to do away with the monster weapons. Some are cool. But I would actually like to see the cephalopea critters wrap themselves around planets and pull up continents one by one, flinging them into space. I want to see varmints raining down on the planet and consuming the inhabitants one by one. I want to see the planet sucker engulf and digest a whole planet. I want to see Godzilla ignite the atmosphere of a planet with his fire breath.

<heavy sigh> Until SE5 though, this will only be a dream. We need animated combat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

This Game Is Starting.

Come join the action, in a cooperative game against Monsters in Rollo's Devnull Mod. The game will be running at PBW, seiv.pbw.cc

Search for Puke's Mail Order Monsters in the open games area. Just as described below.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

no racial points and turn all the racial techs into unique.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Look up the Toys for Bob website. I think they are planning on re-releasing it like they did with Star Control 2. They have made excellent games and... I need to DL the latest Version of SC2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

ooooh, the temptation. ...must... resist...

* Rollo collapses on the floor.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

I tried to resist, but I just couldn't. I'm in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Junior, Get mah gun. I'm a gonna hunt me some Monsters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Soooo... This game has been going for a while, and it looks like we will probably win without losing any humans. We have one of the monsters blocaded (well, Rollo does) and are holding off the others fairly well.

Its just a matter of time before we researh star destroyers.

So im going to kick arround a few ideas for the sequel. well, exactly two ideas. I would like to do a Junkyard Wars MOM game, but I think I will wait for the new Version of the DevnullMod before updating JYW. and in any event, that will be JYW4, not MOM2.

Idea #1:
shrink the quadrant down to small, make it a spiral or supergrid. Give the monsters more planets (like 10). same setup, team mode, high bonus, 0 point humans with 5000 point monsters. maybe only 1 monster per 5 humans, if using 10 planet start. maybe 1 for 3 with a 5 planet start.

Idea #2:
large standard or FQM quadrant, 255 systems. 1 planet, poor start. 0 point monsters, 5000 point humans. no bonus, high research cost. as many humans as possible, only one monster. Monster is played by a human. certain fair-play rules in effect, like no sector-cloaking the sun. possibly remove password for the monsters, allowing humans to view monsters turn.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

I'm game

just some ideas Mac

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

#1 I like this. Sounds like we are all going to die... I'd prefer 5 planets and a 1:3 monster ratio.

#2 darn you Puke... I was going to suggest this myself. My idea was more like medium quadrant and myself playing the monsters versus 10 opponents (yes, certain fair play rules in effect. Like no sun cloaking and only one planet-eater per player...).

either way I am game (as long as I get to play the nasties in option #2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

This thread was not updated for a while, but Mail Order Monsters 2 was a grizzly defeat for the humans. Overpowered monsters had maximum tech and planet eating worms floating around the quadrant before we even had light cruisers, and the meager mortals were eaten alive.

But after some mooks in the IRC channel egged my into it, Mail Order Monsters III is accepting players. unfortuneatly, I see that Covert Jaguar has the same idea (except that he is using Adamant and not Devnull) and that i'm compeetign with him for monster hunters.

Oh well, im sure there are enough SE4 players to go arround. come in and be eaten. And if Rollo isnt to busy being a Beta Tester, he can even come eat some humans.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/text/index.jsp?me...%3fgame=es3td7

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Don't forget about the Invasion! PBW game going right now with 3 human player monsters against 7 human player normal races. It's not clear whos going to win, I have star destroyers but they have about 180+ more ships than me...

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Actually it was Braincyi's idea. But he bailed on us in the first game and totally screwed up the monsters when he made them. So, we restarted with human monsters. The game is full and we will be starting soon. It's really more of a Roleplaying game.

CW, you have star-destroyers already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif But then you are kind of insulated from the monsters in the corner. They have to go through me to get to you. I'm having a hard time just holding them off. They keep depopulating random systems.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

id love to hear some more game reports from the ones you have in progress. I dont know how different Devnull monsters are from Adamant, I thought Fyron had pretty much just stolen most of Rollo's code.

But in Devnull, i cant imagine the humans having any chance unless they find, contain, and kill the monsters before they reach tech level 3 or so. what sort of artificial restrictions are you placing on the monster players? No cloaking suns is a must.

do you prohibit them from colonizing? prohibit them from researching non-monster technology? prohibit them from using monster cloaks on anything besides a homeworld? force them to use AI design ministers only?

and how is the game going so far?

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

The game has yet to start, but here are a list of our restrictions:

Enforced by the mod design:
No colonizing
Very little non-monster technology researchable

Artificial Restrictions:
50% intelligence
Naturalist trait (-40% planet capacity)
No offensive intelligence ops
No non-planetary space yards
Monster cloaks allowed on bases only
No Subterranean trait (+20% planet capacity)
No monster fleets except specifically against targets that have proven they can handle single ships and smaller groups.

The combination of 50% intelligence and Naturalist with 3 homeworlds and a 100000 first turn bonus led in test games to discovering monster tech level 2 (first ships) on turn 11, 3 (warp openers/closers) on turn 41, and 4 (multiplex tracking, shield-skipping weapons, shields) on turn 94. I didn't test further than that. With two space monster races in the game, a treaty between them will speed things up a little bit for the later tech levels. I, as one of the monsters, plan to keep a permanent home garrison of 10 ships at every homeworld, always consisting of the latest and greatest I've got, which will give the normal races 21 turns to expand before any monster ships set out, and will delay each improvement on monster ships by 10 turns. The ban on base/ship space yards limits the monsters to three new ships at most each turn. With 5 normal races for every monster race, a large galaxy, and no monster expansion, I think the normal races may have a chance.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Puke said:
I dont know how different Devnull monsters are from Adamant, I thought Fyron had pretty much just stolen most of Rollo's code.

It's not stealing when Rollo gives you permission to use it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Puke said:
prohibit them from researching non-monster technology?

In Adamant, most technologies require a paradigm trait, so very little is open to properly set up space monsters.

douglas said:
No offensive intelligence ops
Monster cloaks allowed on bases only

Aren't these mod restriction anyways? I could have sworn they only had access to counter intelligence and that monster cloaks were only mountable on bases. I'll have to fix these if this is not the case.

Re: Mail Order Monsters
 

Monster Cloaks are Ship/Base/Sat (not that monsters have any satellite hulls to put them on). Quite a number of intelligence projects require only Sabotage Operations or Espionage Operations technology, neither of which requires any racial tech.