Long Range Wepons
 

It was mentioned before about somone cutting themselves off by close all warp points and have a facilty to prevent warp point creation.

What about a wepons that can detroy entire systems from far away? Or the the abitly to use warp point creation to warp to a neighbor square the sending on the fleat from there.

Off course the yang(defense) for these would nee to be created as well

Any thoughts on this?

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Good ideas, but those would have to be hardcoded in. As it stands, the only way to destroy a star is to move a star destroyer into the sector containing the star, and you can only open a warp point to a square that actually contains a system.

If you want to prevent the turtling strategy, however, simply remove the block warp points abilities from the system shield.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Hmm. How about random and intelligence events? Can they be used to destroy planets, stars, and/or open warp points even when a system grav shield is in place?

PvK

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Yes I relize that they would have to be hard coded in but I just wanted to open up a dialog on the subject to see if anyone liked it.

If enough people like then maybe in to be put in to SEV

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

I think intelligence (and it may work this way, I don't know) should allow for a percentage chance to capture any ship within the sector you can't see in when you choose to take any ship. This gives you a chance to get inside the system. I don't think there should be a way to directly go into a turtled sector. I think closing off warps is a fair strategy right now because once they make it so you can't get in, they can't get out. That's severly limiting, especially since they can't get out to defend their unprotected sectors and you start them all rioting. They will eventually have to come out of their shell.

- takr

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If they lock themselves into a small number of systems, they can stay there indefinitely.

The only thing that could possibly break the turtling is random events.
Even supernovae can be prevented by a Ring or Sphereworld, and if there are grav shield facilities on multiple planets in each system, earthquakes and planet core instabilities won't crack the shell either.
After thousands of turns, you might find that the turtled player's planets are all randomly destroyed (he can't rebuild since the ringworld uses up the star). I don't think ringworlds can be broken up by random events, though, so he could still sit there with ten grav shields and say he hasn't lost yet.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What I'd really really like to see for SEV would be the possibility for normal space FTL travel from system to system as well as warp-point travel. This would open up whole new tech trees and strategies. For example, travelling directly from system to system without warp points would have the advantage of being able to approach from any direction but the obvious disadvantage that it would take a lot longer to get from A to B. Cost and supplies might also be issues.

Maybe also make it so that once a fleet has been despatched via FTL into the inter-stellar void, it can't change course. Chuck in some sensors so that the defender could see a few dozen light years beyond the system's boundaries (and all the cloaking devices & stuff that come with sensors) and it could be a well- balanced feature for the sequel.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Interstellar travel without warp-points would allow entry into segment of the solar system that are not connected by warp-points. This would effectively counter System Shields denying access to a system after the warp-points have beenr emoved.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

if out-of-contact empires counted towards a 'peace' victory condition, you could set it to peace after 10 years. anyone who turtles for 100 turns with the rest of the galaxy at peace, would cause the game to end. and would probably be deemed the loser, if he had a lower score.

on the other hand, if someone with a hunge empire blocades all the others out and has a higer score, he could win by the same logic. not a bad thing necessarily.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

How about a component that induces the random event that causes a ship to travel to a random part of the galaxy. If it were expensive enough, you wouldn't want to use it on every ship. But it would provide a way into any far flung system.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Well, since we're experiencing this and just defeated it, here is what we did.

It's 2 vs 1, the 1 is turtled in a sector with a system shield and has 100 planets outside his shield.

We attacked 2 or 3 planets per system to start riots. The riots caused his intel centers to stop producing. Even though he has about 4 gazillion intel points saved up, his production is currently 0 so he can't use any of his stored points to stop us.

We then began using intel to steal a random ship. We can steal 3 ships each turn. After about 10 turns we happened to steal a construction ship in his turtled sector. (And we see he's not quite done with the sphere world, but that's neither here nor there.) Immediately built fighters with the builder ship to defend it and set all of our intel to attack specific ships in the turtled sector now that we can see inside.

Obviously, this can't work in all instances, but it's how we won in this instance.

- takr

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">cant be done on a component. however, Geo was talking about this on another thread. what you can do, is mod a new intel project that moves a ship to any random place in the quadrant. the catch is that you have to have two empires cooperating, or it wont work. you cant run intel against yourself, you know.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IIRC they don't count towards that victory condition. All empires must have contact....

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

"if" being the operative word...

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Are you saying that intel points must be produced before any the stored up counter-intelligence points can be used?

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

I think he means using Intel to offensively stop the attackers ships or economy.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Yes, I thought that is what he meant...but wanted to be sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

No I mean if player A has 50,000,000,000 stored counter intel points and I kill player A's intel facilities (or cause riots) and he creates 0 intel points a turn, he CAN NOT stop ANY intel attacks against him even with his 50,000,000,000 stored counter intel points. You MUST have more intel points generated on that turn to use your stored counter-intelligence.

Now, if he could get 10 points a turn and had spread points evenly, he could use 10 of his stored counter-intel's (becaues they each get 1 point each) and he'd probably stop 10 of our attacks. If he generated 1 point of counter-intel it would allow him to use his first counter-intel project only against us.

So, to reiterate, if you go to your Intel menu and you see Intel = 0, no matter what you have saved up, you will not stop anything at all as far as intelligence attacks against you. You can ask your opponent who has lost about 30 ships, had bombs go off on the ships that were making his sphere world, riots on tons of planets and he can't do anything to stop us because of the riots we have created.

- takr

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Hmmmmmm..........

I always thought that your stored intel points could stop any number of multiple attacks, so long as there are enough counter-intel points to do so.

If what you say is true (and you seem very certain of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), then this is another dumb bug MM has to look at.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

I completely disagree, this is not a bug at all. Think of it this way, you create Counter Intelligence facilities and they are blown up, you have no counter intelligence employees to stop anything coming in, or if they are rioting, you have the same problem. The stored points are their 'knowledge' if you want to think of it that way. As long as they are working, they are quite knowledgeable and able to stop intelligence attacks, but once they stop working or riot or are blown up, you've lost their expertise and are a sitting duck, just as it should be. All he has to do is get them back working and he seems to not be bright enough to do that yet. All he needs is one functioning facility anywhere on the map and his counter will begin working again.

- takr

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

What he says is true, after we (i'm his teamate) dicovered that intell was working, we talked to the other person, he had been running counter intell 3 for quite a while, being that we are 160 turns in, we are all farily built up on it... but due to unfortunate circumstances his people were all rioting (somethign about a player surrendering to him (his Own teamate), us blowing up 10+ planets a turn) so that's what happens, you don't produce intell, you don't get the benfits of intell... I also agree that you shouldn't get the intell.. make your people happy so they wil work for you, if not, you get nothoign

-Doc Weas

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Close... all he needs to do is spend at least 1 point on at least 1 Counter-Intel project, and ALL counter-intel projects are effective. I had a single-player game going where I had 5 or so counter-intel projects within a turn of completion, added one more & then loaded up on offensive projects to use up most of the intel production (obviously, "divide evenly" was OFF). So I had multiple offensive projects receiving points, plus 1 counter-intel receiving points, and incoming attacks took points off the old counter-intel projects (the ones NOT receiving new spending). As required, I'd reorder the queue to put an older counter-intel near the front so I could replenish it. Of course, this was a 1.67 (Gold patch 1); I haven't gotten that far in a 1.78 (Gold patch 2) game.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Has this changed in Gold, because in 1.49 you DO NOT need to spend money on any Counter-Intel projects.
I usually build up my storage and then change to offensive intel and only need to worry about it if my Counter-intel starts to get low.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Regarding the original topic in this forum, sealing yourself off and winning peacefully through economics, why would anyone want to play a game this way??? Sounds exactly like the original outpost game. All economics/logistics and no combat <snore>. One of the strongest features of the SEIV game is combat and the ship design capabilities.

Anyone planning that strategy will most likely be taken out by his warlike human friends long before he had a chance to "peacefully" develop. If someone is doing this against the computer, why bother? Go balance your checkbook or manage your 401K. You'll get a lot more out of it.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

We are not playing a gold game (our next will be)

Thanks DirectorTsaarx for clarifying how it works (we were narrowong it down as best as possible, but being htat we are currently at woar, it's hard to get, and give to much information:))

-Doc Weas

And people will do whatever they can to get a win in the win column...

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It could be a new feature of Gold that you need to keep spending points on at least one counter-intel project to have the protection; I know Intel is one part of the game that's required a fair amount of tweaking since the initial release. Especially since no-one completely understands how it works (except Aaron, of course...)

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

Counter-intel is pretty strong, in my opinion. I typically build about 10 or so intelligence facilities (operating at 80% as per race characteristic) and fire up a counter intel project. That seems to stop about 2 intel attacks per turn, maybe more.

Re: Long Range Wepons
 

...Or maybe Aaron Doesn't know how it works! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Perhaps someone from the CIA, FBI, or the now defunct KGB broke in and stole all his notes on how the system works, and the code is so complex that he cannot figure it out by reverse engineering...

Well, okay, maybe not, but it would explain why the intel system is unexplainable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif