Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

It seems when you click on open games the number of neon slots is very very low lately (not too low and some great entries as well) and the number of gray entries is horribly high. Why is it that people arn't playing replacement players and why are people leaving? I have some ideas, but i'd love to hear yours.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Q. 1 We don't have a replacement problem, we have a withdrawal problem! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Q. 2 Too many holes to fill! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Q. 3 "Commitment" is just another word in the dictionary to too many people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Kim (in "snarl" mode)

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Personally I see nothing wring with withdrawing from a game if you have given it a good shot and are being thoroughly beaten since many games will not allow surrender. I suspect most of the games with open slots that are late in the game and the open slot is pretty much beaten. A quick scan of the open games reveals 23 Open - not started, 17 needing replacements that are less than turn 75, and only 9 that need replacements and are less than 50 turn old.

(of course the key phrase here is 'giving it a good shot' No doubt there are some players who will quit pretty early given a poor start)

[ September 15, 2002, 15:32: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Much of the problem is people withdrawing from a game when they are actually dead and should be marked finished. I spent a couple hours this morning going through the open games and cleaning out these dead open spots. Took out around 30.

Geoschmo

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On behalf of the players in "Conquista", I thank you! George, maybe you should be getting a paycheque! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Just a reminder to PBW players. When your empire is dead or near dead, DON'T withdraw. Ask the host to finish your empire so George doesn't have to go to all this trouble. Since your empire is dead anyway, it cost you almost nothing to leave your empire under your control till the host does this.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

"Q. 3 "Commitment" is just another word in the dictionary to too many people."

Yes, but some just don't realize the commitment they will have to make. I've had games Last upwards of 4-6 months. If you take a 24hr turnover game that has 1 turn a day and only one turn is played you could technecly have a game that Lasts years (nevermind the games that have one turn every 3 days, they tend to have people {like me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif } who wait till the Last second to do the turn for upload. Its human nature to procrastinate).

Then you have to factor in real life things like families, jobs, sickness, vacation (which is hard enough to arrange in real life never mind taking into account 20 Online peoples schedueles), boredom (attention span) and the best one of all: Hardware/Software/Internet failure. (I've been through all three! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif ).

Then there is the frusturation factor. Imagine after 50-60 odd turns you miss one. AI has a field day (which annoys all your human allies) and the daunting task of spending a few hours doing a turn to set your empire right.

It would be nice if there was a 'quit game' option where the player who left has his empire disappear from the game entirely (ie planets empty, no ships etc).

It's kinda like MTGO (Magic the Gathering Online). Their multiplayer games/tournaments can Last 6+ hours Online and sometimes RL tends to inturrupt.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

I think that the biggest problem is that people don't know where replacement players are needed. If anyone doesn't advertise the empty spots, nobody is going to fill them. Advertising an open spot can be a lot of trouble. PBW needs to list all open spots the same way it lists open games.

Let me explain a little bit. First we have a game that has started. Then a player drops out. After that the game owner has to decide if the spot should be filled again. If the game owner wants it filled, he/she just clicks a button and the open spot is added to the list. That way any potential replacement players can see open spots and their game information easily. When someone fills the spot, it vanishes from the list and everything is fine again.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Zarix, We already have that. Games with open spots show up in the open games list. And they are color coded differently than games that are taking players that haven't started yet. What in addition to this are you asking for?

Geoschmo

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

I think he's trying to get a way for people to advertise spots they really really want filled, but it seems kinda redundant as, in the game where i'm an admin, i'd really love to have someone fill up the empty spot, and i bet most admins would too. If people properly mark dead empires (and make less work for you incidently) then the replacement player game list is truly a listing of games needing replacements.

Also, something for anyone who is admining games out there, i've seen/been in several games where the admin marks empires dead even though they are still technically alive, they are just so wasted that there is no point in offering them up for grabs, also, it can help alleviate concerns about crossing over between players.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, we also have the open games forum on PBW, and people often post for replacments here. Typically the Game owners that post more requests tend to get their games filled up more quickly.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Thanks for clearing the "Conquista" game Geo. Grandpa Kim, Do you want to advertise for the Lint Navy, I don't want to, since I'm fighting them.

Another game I am in the replacement players seem to hang around for 5-10 turns before starting to miss turns and then dropping out - Always just when we have agreed on a trade I need, but before they accept it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif And 6 days for each turn, we seem to be waiting awhile for replacement players.

[ September 16, 2002, 03:41: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

One way to tell if an empire that you're considering taking over as a replacement player is dead is if its score is a multiple of 200, which means that it probably has no ships or planets, only researched tech levels, since each tech level is worth 200 points. Of course this doesn't help if this statistic is turned off.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

So what exactly does marking an empire as "Dead" actually do? Does it mean that the spot just isn't open to replacement and the AI will run the turn, or does it mean that not even the AI will do anything? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Quote from the PBW FAQ - Section 3.6

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finishing an empire that was created with the 'NO AI' option basically sets the AI doing pretty much nothing, including accepting surrender.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Thanx, BG. Now it's your turn to gloat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Taking over replacment spots is cool. The other players in the game love you cause you are giving them a real live person to beat rather than an AI. If you manage to win or at least do well you get more credit than normal because you started from such a poor position. If you lose you can blame it on the previous owner, or the AI. It's a win for you either way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you are concerned with the amount of free time you have, well that's a legitimate concern. But keep in mind that many replacment spots are for smallish empires so there is less to do.

Geoschmo

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

"But keep in mind that many replacment spots are for smallish empires so there is less to do."

Like the Parinoia game for example. The only reason the empire I took over is even still around is if it dies, everyone except the killer looses! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have more planets and ships in one SYSTEM in my main game than I have total in Parinoia.

Phoenix-D

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

I'm not too fond of replacing a player once the game's been going on for more than 2-3 years because for one thing chances are the player might be dead, and also by then a lot of the critical early game decisions have been made by then. The early game to mid-game is what I enjoy the most because there are a lot of critical decisions to be made and not everyone's flying around with maxed out ships.

The other reason why I'm not too fond of joining replacement games is that I have no way of knowing (until joining) what sort of a race I'll be taking over. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a psychotic race, and other times I want to be all goody-goody. If there was a way to check a race's biological/social/historical description before replacing a player, I'd at least be a lot more eager to fill up a replacement slot.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

I read your discussion about replacement players and i simply can't understand why the people don't like to play replacement spots....

I love to play in replacement spots, because every time you take over an empire you have differente chalenges, because normally the spot you pick is losing in a way or another and you must think hard how to survive....

I love challenges and love to start a game from a losing position and fight "uphill" to a better position, i don't care if i win or lose, the only thing that i care is the "fun factor" and fighting from a losing position is a lot of fun...

Actually i'm playing 4 games, being 3 of that replacement spots that i picked up... In 2 i managed to better the position i take over and in the other i'm going "downhill", but, like a friend used to say: "screaming and kicking all the way down".

Just my two cents.

Makinus

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

Speaking of Paranoia, what player are you? I remember being the guys with all the drones for a long while, but nobody ever told me who my target was so it was sorta difficult. It seems that game is going to Last a long-long-long time (i played 40-51 turns), i think it might be the Transcendant Order. But i think it'd be a cool fan-fiction piece too, fun as well. I also remember a game a while back that might have had a save game called rim2 or something, it was cool, b/c i worked my way up from a loser position to getting another guy to surrender to me and getting into top 3 or four. then RL intervened and i had to quit or leave another oneof my baby's (PBW games). So maybe when i get more free time ill try something like that again.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

One drastic way to take care of the relative scarcity of replacement players would be to prohibit the creation of new games on PBW until the amount of available replacement slots falls to a low level. I personally would be in favor of a policy like this.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yuck! I vote "NO" to that!

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

"One drastic way to take care of the relative scarcity of replacement players would be to prohibit the creation of new games on PBW until the amount of available replacement slots falls to a low level. I personally would be in favor of a policy like this."

I would also vote no to that. If it WAS implimented, I'd take control of as many empires as possible.. and kill them all off. Quickly. (watch the empire die in 6 turns or less! yes, it can be done)

I imagine the other players in the game wouldn't be thrilled with that prospect.

Phoenix-D

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

It's not a severe enough problem to call for drastic measures. We can't force people to play in games that they don't want to join.

Part of the problem is actually the wide number of options available. There are so many different settings that can vary from game to game that every game you don't personally set up is likely to have some settings you don't particularly like.

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

I have found that the majority of games needing replacement players are in Version 1.49.

Since I bought Gold, I can't play in these...Greybeard

Re: Are Replacements becoming a problem?
 

If replacement players are a problem the best way would be to create stats for them kind of like relief pitchers. Is this possible in PBW? Playing as a replacement for X # of turns would earn you a save or something. Baseball would probably have a severe shortage of of Relief pitchers if they got no credit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif