Quantum reactor
 

If you have the QR - and you have a refueling ship equipped with one - does that ship need any supply containers at all to refuel all ships in a fleet? In short - does one QR take the place of all supply containers?

I would think that it would given that it's supposed to supply an infinite amount of supplies but SE is quirky so I'm checking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

"In short - does one QR take the place of all supply containers?"

Yes, if the ships are fleeted.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">grassy-*** http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Really? I thought that the QR just topped off the tanks of the ship it was on. For Example:

3 ships in a fleet, one with a QR.

A = can hold 4000 supplies and has the QR.
B = 3000 supplies.
C = 3000 supplies.

Therefore, the fleet total is 10000 supplies.

Combat drains the fleet down to, say, 3000 supplies combined (1000 per ship). Ship A's QR kicks in, and now:

A = 4000 supplies
B = 1000 supplies
C = 1000 supplies

Which, gives a fleet total of 7000 supplies. Spread evenly over the fleet, the next turn (assuming no new supply usage), each ship will have 2333 supplies. Then the QR would kick in, and now:

A = 4000 supplies
B = 2333 supplies
C = 2333 supplies

for a fleet total of 8666 supplies... etc. etc. etc.

Isn't that how it works??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif If so, the more Supply Storage is on the QR ship, the better.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

No Dumbluck, that is wrong. Well... technically, it is right. A ship with a QR has it's supplies filled up. Then, it shares it's supplies with the fleet. The supplies of all ships are averaged. Then, the ship with the QR has less than 100% supplies, so it gets filled again, and the supplies are spread around again. So, 1 QR will fill all ships in the fleet. At least, that is how to correctly explain what you had thought was happening. In truth, QR ships (like bases) don't actually have any supplies, and they don't use supplies to do anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif At least, that is how I think it is programmed.

[ September 15, 2002, 06:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Quantum reactor
 

One nuance is that, even though a single QR keeps its entire fleet supplied, a ship still can run out of supplies during combat. This is unlikely since it started full or nearly full, but consider a CSM ship who is doing long range bombardment of a planet. At 20 supplies per shot, long combat can drain a ship if it only has engines for supply.

Slick

Re: Quantum reactor
 

That is because supplies are shared after the turn is over and being processed. They are not shared during the turn, or combat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Ya, the ships do have supplies as before. The QR resupplies the whole fleet up to a certain (very high) limit, but I think it only does so during a "phase" that occurs once per turn, at the end of a turn. Er, or maybe once at the beginning of a turn, and again at the end - not sure.

PvK

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Well, now, there is the answer on how to balance the QR right there! Make it work just like the, uh, what are they called? The things that generate supplies from solar power (read: per star in system). IIRC (which should rightly be called into question, after all, I was wrong about the QR!), the Solar Panel thingymajigs act as I described, and I see no reason for the QR to act differently (or bases, for that matter!)

Hell, while we're at it, you could almost accomplish the same thing by modding the QR to have an obscenely high Solar Panel Thingymajig ability. Of coarse, then Black holes and Nebulas would mysteriously cause the QR to stop functioning.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Oh well, just a thought.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

PvK:
I believe that is what I have been saying all along. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Ships that actually have a (non-damaged) QR on them completley ignore supply issues, and they fill up all the ships in their fleet at the very beginning of each turn, before any turns start for any empires (or at the very end, after all movement and combat has been executed for all empires). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Yeah, removing the quantum reactors and replacing them with power plants that generate a fixed amount (maybe mods on supply generation could be a nice addition to nebula/storm effects) would also be a nice feature. For some reason I like the idea of a giant solar collecting support ship equipped with a repair bay flying alongside every clump of battleships.

Another nice feature would be little racial experience bonuses. It would be wrong to base these bonuses on total experience, but it would be nice to base them on experience gained within that game.

But these are all hard coded things that Aaron would have to step in to change.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Any ship with a quantum reactor has "unlimited" or infinite supplies.
At the end of the turn, it shares supplies with the fleet. Infinite supplies divvied up amongst 100 ships leaves an infinite amount per ship. So, they all get filled up to max, and the QR ship still has an infinite amount of supplies left.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Why do people keep restating what I have already said?

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deja vu all over again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

When I do it its usually 'cause my brain is low on caffiene.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

But if you had a fleet with an infinite number of ships in it all with quantum reactors producing an infinite number of supplies would your monkey be able to reproduce all the works of Shakespeare? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

only if a tree falls in the forest and doesn't make noise.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

"Why do people keep restating what I have already said?"

Well, the way you said it implied a possibly infinite sequence of "supply sharing" events...

Re: Quantum reactor
 

If this thread turns into an infinite number of replies - I'm going to Tibet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

I ... can't.... .... resist..... AHHHHHHHHHH!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That was just explaining it using what Dumbluck had suggested happening. I showed how that would keep tipping off all the ships until they were full. As I said, that isn't how it is actually programmed to happen, just an extension of Dumbluck's idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">???? HUH?....who's that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Ok mottlee step away from the keyboard.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">... and keep your hands where we can see them!

Re: Quantum reactor
 

I've been reading this post and IIRC dumbluck had it right the first time with his 'sharing / averaging' explination. (At least that's how it used to work and I haven't checked in a while.)

Has anyone confirmed this 'infinite' supply issue? ISTR that the ship with the QR on it was always full but not necessarily the ships fleeted with it.

Maybe I had a brain-cramp and have had it patched for months and just never realized it, but it DID used to work that way.....

Re: Quantum reactor
 

The ship with the Quantum reactor on it has INFINITE, not just FULL supplies.

It shares with the rest of the fleet at the end of each turn.

1) new ships added to the fleet will NOT get supplies until the second turn.
2) Combat or movement durinng the turn may deplete the supplies aboard fleeted vessels.
3) The QR- equipped ship will have 100% supplies when its QR is destroyed in combat, even if it moved or fired weapons earlier in the turn.
4) A ship with a QR needs ZERO supply storage to operate, similar to a base.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure. I understand this SJ, but how are the other ships in the fleet filled: averaged, or what.

Maybe I'm just an airhead, but I seem to remeber it like dumbluck does; by filling ship(s) with QR's, then adding all supplies from all ships in fleet, then averaging amongst all ships, then filling the ship(s) with the QRs again. It just seems like my fleets are never 'topped off' with supplies (with a QR). Sure, they're always getting added to, but never totally full.

That's one reason why I don't research Resupply for the QR - too expensive and 1 or 2 Solar Collectors (per ship) and a support ship full of 'em seem to me a better 'Return on Investment'....

Am I not seeing this correctly or am I missing a patch or somethin'....

EDIT: Maybe it's just time to go back to researching QR's.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ September 20, 2002, 20:30: Message edited by: rdouglass ]

Re: Quantum reactor
 

Try a test game with high tech start and build a fleet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The other ships in the fleet (with a QR ship) get maxxed out supplies at the end of each turn.

Supplies are distributed in a "one for me, one for you" fashion.
IE: if there are 120 supplies total in a fleet of 12 ships, each will have 10 supplies on the next turn. If a ship with 140 supplies is added to that fleet, all the ships will have 20 supplies on the turn after that.

[ September 20, 2002, 21:08: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Guess it's time to start researching QR's again. Thanks SJ; (I think.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Re: Quantum reactor
 

I just put together a fleet and ran it until there were next to no supplies. I then fleeted a small ship equipped with one QR - next turn - all were topped off.

Guess that answers that.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

I can understand why there's some confusion. In some situations I've seen one ship low on supplies in a fleet with QR, but I don't know the circumstances.

I've also seen ships in a fleet with QR run out of supplies in combat. They were in fact dreadnaughts and baseships without supply storage, but I don't think they were missile ships, so I don't know how they lost supply in combat.

I've seen large fleets, with say 30-50 members, and one ship with QR, actually list their supply storage capacity, and the actual amount was not maxed out. But, it was never depleted by simple flying the fleet around.

I dunno, I'm not real good and analyzing the numbers of SE4. I look at it this way. Without QR, a ship can only travel a couple of systems. With QR in the fleet, it can go anywhere. QR is a fairly cheap component, I can put one on every ship. So in the end, it works pretty good.

Re: Quantum reactor
 

"They were in fact dreadnaughts and baseships without supply storage, but I don't think they were missile ships, so I don't know how they lost supply in combat."

Umm, every weapon takes supplies to fire, not just missiles. Shoot for long enough, and yeah you'll drain the engine-based supply storage.

Phoenix-D

Re: Quantum reactor
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, there's also the issue of the shields using supplies during combat. And the dread and baseships have fewere engines to store supplies if you don't include supply storage.

It just seems sometimes not to be perfectly consistant. Every movement seems to consume exactly the right amount of supplies, likewise the missile shots. But a ship parked at a warp point, getting into constant combat time and again with it's DUC's or APB, and shields, seems to hold it's supplies longer than it should.

Oh, should I mention it again? Stealth Armor uses no supplies, but you must have supplies to turn on the stealth armor cloak. And I have the sneaking suspicion that a stealth armor cloaked ship uses more supplies, that the solar panels don't seem to "recharge" a stealth armor cloaked ship, and that trinary star systems don't really provide 3 x the supplies to the solar collecter.

But hey YMMV.