Riots
 

OK I don't recall seeing this subject talked about too much in other threads.
I have Troops on every planet and and the Department of Mental Hygene on ever corner yet when I loose a few planets and take some battle losses virtually every planet starts rioting.
I know the best thing is not to loose ships and planets but an Empire should not crumble so readily. What am I doing wrong?

Re: Riots
 

What Happiness type did you select for your empire at game setup? Some happiness types (Bloodthirsty I think) get really pissed if you sustain any major casualties.

Re: Riots
 

If you chose Peaceful from the start. They absolutly hate wars. If you fight you really bring them close to riots.

And as Gandalph mentioned. Bloodthirsty hates it when you lose fights. If you picked nutral or whatever the 3rd one is. Then they hate it when you even come into contact with another empire.

Re: Riots
 

IMHO, Peaceful is the easiest to work with. Even if you are in a war or two, as long as you are not losing battles or allowing enemy ships into your systems, the population will generally stay happy.

[ September 23, 2002, 05:42: Message edited by: Gandalph ]

Re: Riots
 

The only time I have seen a peaceful race that has taken no precautions against riots start to lose happiness is after taking 100s of ship losses. Other than that, they stay jubiliant quite easily. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Riots
 

I can't quite understand the riots. That is, "Oh dear no! Enemy ships are bearing down on us and going to kill us! Let us go raid the planet's space yard and protest so it can't build the ships would otherwise protect us!"

I'm getting stomped in a game against the AI and it's annoying. Thankfully it looks like the AI found a bigger fish to fry for the moment...

Re: Riots
 

That's why even the most xenophobic stock AIs have Peaceful as their happiness type. I've seen a few custom AIs that use Bloodthirsty, but even a human player has a hard time managing Neutral.

Re: Riots
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well the galactic population in SE4 is a little weird by contemporary human standards.

I remember when the first game I started to win vs the AI. Those crystaline, xenophobic, 5 year life span, gas giant born methane breathers were only too happy to live on a small methane rock, rip out the oxygen domes, and build extra intelligence facilities to help me kick over their old government. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I do that now all the time without thinking about it, but at that time, I was marveling at how this game worked. I thought I had discovered some grand mystery of the game, now I hear on PBW people trade population as soon as they meet for the mutual bonus.

Rioting is just there to penalize you for not defending your planets. The population is just a number to determine bonuses, not a group of people with opinions.

Which is something I probably wouldn't like. People griping 'cause I expanded too fast, or too slow. If I ignored some oxygen world 'cause I didn't think I was ready to defend it -- conspiracy theorists would spring up and wonder what the goverment's real agenda was, just who was I really working for, votes of non-confidance ending the game, or maybe they would build a colony ship and go there on their own?, etc.

[ September 23, 2002, 16:56: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Riots
 

It pays to add some cultural and racial points to happiness. Avoiding riots in the middle of a war is essential.
The minor bonuses are nice and so is the extra reproduction. I also like not having troops everywhere, costing cargo space and build turns, and not having Pop facilities taking up space.
Bloodthirsty can be handled easily enough. Don't make too many treaties too quickly, and kick butt.

[ September 24, 2002, 00:25: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Re: Riots
 

The thing is, all the enhancements you can add act very slowly. Battle losses of any kind appear instantly. For instance, loss of any planet is a drop of 5%. So all you have to lose is 4 planets in a turn and your happiness goes down one level. Lose two systems and a fleet and you can go from Jubilant to Angry. Riots are just a turn away.

Kim

Re: Riots
 

But two systems and a fleet are a big loss, you should expect things to get unruly. Look at how certain countries treat the loss of even one service man, the reaction is well out of proportion to the real, military cost. As for the logic of rioting and shutting down the local space yard when the enemy gets close, it may not seem logical, but it is realistic. Russia in 1917 can be seen as a “riot” against a poorly managed war. Vietnam war protests are cited by many as the reason the US had to withdraw, a clear case of “riots” at home hurting the ability to prosecute a war. I think it is a reasonable way of representing this sort of situation.

Of course, the easy response is dictatorship. As far as I can see, building troops early on quickly pays off, as they will lift your happiness quickly, boosting production. They pay for themselves with the extra production kicking in a few turns earlier. If you do take a few hits to happiness, martial law sets in right away and you recover more quickly. The main cost is the lost turn building them, so you have to decide if having that extra mineral miner and losing the productivity is worth it. For the more resilient empire, I feel it is. Of course, I had to buy a copy of Castle Wolfenstein after losing a game to a friend when 16 of my planets started rioting in the middle of the big war, so perhaps I am overly emotional about this.

Re: Riots
 

You know, 120 seems to be the magic number with troops. At least, that many on every planet got them all back from rioting to jubilant in only a few turns, even with a few more minor losses coming in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Riots
 

/political humor
Using troops to increase happyness: Do you create a mod that produces research points and call it , "Kent State"
/political humor

Re: Riots
 

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Re: Riots
 

The way this game is designed, the impact of rioting is severe, grinding your empire's production to a halt.

I would refer you to the FAQ for Newbies for ways to limit/reduce rioting.

First, on planets that are angry, I would discipline myself to build many cheap troops (hard to do when you are getting your butt kicked; you are foregoing a valuable warship).

Second, don't give up. Accept the losses you cannot defend. This may mean an entire system, where your enemy has the advantage. Rather than plunge scattered forces to the front to continue battle losses, consolidate a fleet that can challenge the attackers and win. Control the damage, establish a chokepoint or line. Winning battles has the most powerful affect on happiness in my experience. So you must calculate a way to win based on what your foe is throwing at you. If you can't... your opponent is better than you, so learn from him.

Third, come up with ways to harass your opponent's territory. Destroying his planets will make your race happier and divert resources away from you.

Every smart player in this game is cognizant of the effects of rioting, so they will press the advantage to freeze your economy by taking advantage of it.

If you have not anticipated war from the first turn of the game against every opponent, you are wrong. Even if an opponent sneak attacks and sends you reeling, you can pull out of the bad situation by having a counter punch and defense in depth. If you are not a military minded player, your foe will thank you for all those nice planets you built up for him.

My point is that you can lose many fights, systems, and planets and stay in the game, as long as it is not terribly consistant...

I have lost tough games where my opponents' planets were all rioting and angry... but he countered well and reversed the situation. And I have won by doing the same.

So rioting in itself is not something you can "switch off" to remedy; it has to do with your overall strategy and preparedness for war.