newest beta patch?
 

anyone know where to find the "newest beta patch"?

in the topic:

"Urgent (Tesco Read) - Time Distortion Burst Bug found in 1.78"

people posting on Oct 1st claim that this problem is fixed with the newest beta patch, but I can't seem to find it to download it. it's not available on the download page or anywhere else I can find.

can anyone help?

(sorry if this is a dumb question but I can't find the freaking thing anywhere)

Re: newest beta patch?
 

The operative word here is "beta". It won't get released until it has been tested.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

lol, ok then any idea when this new patch is going to be tested and released?

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We are testing it at the moment but no release date yet.

Version 1.80:
1. Fixed - Integer Overflow when a unit with no shields was hit by normal
weapons.
2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships
regardless of the target type.
3. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will fail against a ship with
a Master Computer (regardless if that component is damaged or
not).
4. Fixed - You can now give resource gifts in excess of 200,000.
5. Added - "x10000" and "x100000" to the Select Package window for resources.
6. Fixed - Fighters were unable to "Fire On And Destroy" ships.
7. Fixed - Organic Armor was pre-regenerating itself before damage occurred
in combat.


Version 1.79:
1. Fixed - "X Damage to Shields" damage types were not working correctly.
2. Fixed - Shield Depeleters will now work properly against units.
3. Fixed - The result of a Communication interception intelligence project
will be displayed with arrows in the log window.
4. Fixed - Ships would clear their order if trying to move to sector 0,0.
5. Fixed - Ships with regnerating armor will regnerate all of their armor
at the end of combat.
6. Fixed - During a Deconstruct & Analyze, you would sometimes receive duplicate
techs if a component and the vehicle size were new to you.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Argh !! So long for the formely best armor of the game...

Re: newest beta patch?
 

What an excellent little patch set! I think every single one of these flaws has been bugging me at least subconciously. Great work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I really appreciate the bug fixes and all, but I'm wondering if we'll see any new features before SE V. Technically things like the production queue and upgrade system aren't bugs, but they could use some improvement.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow. That is a massive change. Seems like this would take a redesign of Organic Armor to have this take effect. Is there any more specific details about the way it works compared to the way it will work when fixed?

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">These are great bug fixes, some of them have been hanging around since the very first incarnation of SE4.

However, the emphasis on bug fixes and lack of new features (and potential introduction of new bugs) implies to me that MM is wrapping up SE4 in favour of work on the 3D combat thing and SE5.

I could be wrong about this, but that's how it looks to me.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Still, 3D combat thing and SE5

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I think that is not a good change.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That goes along with:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The idea is that Organic Armor should regenerate imidiately after a battle is over, not only regenerating during combat.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

[quote]
>Damn! So much for the Computer Virus and AS combo.

Yeah, I think that is not a good change.
{/quote]

I disagree. If a ship is designed with a master computer, then there is no crew and no bridge. Once the MC is gone there's no-one to convert and no way to fly the damn thing.
Maybe you should be allowed to put boarding parties aboard and then fly it home under reduced speed/ functionality, but using the AS makes no sense at all.

Now, if the ship had an MC *and* crew quarters/ bridge, and you destroyed the MC, I'd have no problem with the use of an Allegiance Subverter.

Maybe an "allegiance subverter virus" weapon should be added which does to MCs what the AS does to a crew...

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Maybe you could have a MC that will avoid the subVersion... But then even if you have a MC there still be the requirment of 1 crew and 1 lifesupport. That way if MC gets destroyed the ship can then be taking with the AS. Would this be a good idea?

Re: newest beta patch?
 

[quote]Originally posted by dogscoff:

Quote:

>If a ship is designed with a master computer, then there is no crew and no bridge. Once the MC is gone there's no-one to convert and no way to fly the damn thing. Maybe you should be allowed to put boarding parties aboard and then fly it home under reduced speed/ functionality, but using the AS makes no sense at all.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, the urge for realisim rears it's ugly head.

For the record, I found it irritating when my MC ships were (rarely) taken by AI psychic races that got lucky with the direct fire weapons.

However, if the MC is destroyed and not taken over by AS or a boarding party, how does the original empire get it home?

The original way was, grudgeingly, more balanced

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I disagree. If a ship is designed with a master computer, then there is no crew and no bridge. Once the MC is gone there's no-one to convert and no way to fly the damn thing.
Maybe you should be allowed to put boarding parties aboard and then fly it home under reduced speed/ functionality, but using the AS makes no sense at all.


I would agree with you except for one point, a ship that has had it's MC destroyed can still fight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Where's the logic in that? If MM would change that then the AS not working would be fine.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

[quote]Originally posted by Arkcon:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dogscoff:

Quote:

>If a ship is designed with a master computer, then there is no crew and no bridge. Once the MC is gone there's no-one to convert and no way to fly the damn thing. Maybe you should be allowed to put boarding parties aboard and then fly it home under reduced speed/ functionality, but using the AS makes no sense at all.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, the urge for realisim rears it's ugly head.

For the record, I found it irritating when my MC ships were (rarely) taken by AI psychic races that got lucky with the direct fire weapons.

However, if the MC is destroyed and not taken over by AS or a boarding party, how does the original empire get it home?

The original way was, grudgeingly, more balanced</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ships without MCs still get 1 movement.
Of course, you can still send the UBERFAST (Quantum engines, Solar sail, Quantum reactor, Propulsion Experts) repair frigate...

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I think he's referring to the fact that there are no crew, and no computer, so how does the ship decide to fire its engines and go somewhere.

I suggest thinking of it as a distributed computer, rather than one mainframe.

All of the subprocessors located near the other components could survive, and collectively make decisions at a greatly reduced speed.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

From the data files;

AS: Artificially intelligent neural-net computer that can control an entire starship without need of a crew and gain experience from its actions.

Virus: Computer virus which is beamed to an enemy ship and then destroys any Master Computers.

If the MC controls the entire ship then once it is destroyed that ship should be dead in the water, not able to move and more importantly, not able to attack.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Valid point. So, while we're forced to submit to realisim ... when this ship with a bLasted master computer arrives home for repair ... all of it's experience is lost, right? No, not the way it works.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Now this is extremely bad IMO and I most probably will not install this patch and therefore no patches at all in the future!!
I already said this when MM changed the "engine only damage" ability, but this time it is even worse: If you make such important hard coded changes two years after the game release when so many user's mod have been created, you will ruin some of the mods. This time it affects my Borg mod which is rendered completely useless after this change!
This is really really bad news for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Using the AS as a Borg weapon?

Why not just have Boarding Parties with the Organic Armor Regen ability?

That way, your borg still have to deplete the enemy shields (required to beam over), and they can keep capturing over and over.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Q, couldn't you give your Borg standard boarding parties instead of AS. And wouldn't this kind of make more sense anyway for the Borg?

The change is a big one, but it was made because of many many requests. From the way AS is supposed to work, it really doesn't make sense that it sould be able to capture a ship that has no crew simply by destroying the master computer.

Geoschmo

EDIT: SJ, even better with the organic regen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 11, 2002, 19:54: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I don't argue if it is realistic or not. The problem for me is simply that a lot of work would be useless after this patch. And I think two years after the initial game release there should be no such irreversible changes. The most important feature of SE IV is it's ability to be modified. So if some people would like it to be changed, make it an option but not a hard coded irreversible change!!!!
I don't have the time and definitely not the wish to change all the AI research and design files for that new patch and therefore I just will not install it. But this means of course that I will be interested no more in the future development of SE IV, which makes me very very very unhappy.

[ October 11, 2002, 20:16: Message edited by: Q ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I think it's a good change for the AS and makes perfect sense. That's one thing that always bothered me before, in that it could take over a ship without any crew.

SJ - I like the regenerating boarding parties for the Borg...I think I'll assimilate for use in the TNG mod.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

install two copies....keep one of them back and patch the other to keep up with the current release..

[ October 12, 2002, 00:07: Message edited by: AJC ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

3. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will fail against a ship with
a Master Computer (regardless if that component is damaged or
not).

Damn! So much for the Computer Virus and AS combo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I am glad to hear that Organic armor will no longer acrue repair points before they are damaged. I have suspected that they did this as organic armor seemed to go away faster at warp-point battles (no approach time to accrue regen points).

I also like taking the AS/Virus combination away as there was no real good counter to that combination, except making sure you always have first fire.

Now, if only the Talisman were toned down a bit. Automatic Hit at range 8 (Range 14 for Large Weapon Platforms and Massive Base Mouints) is rather hard to overcome.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I can't believe some of the things I am reading in here.

I have to agree to some extent with Q. I spent alot of time putting together a mod for 1.67, which no one played incidently, that the 1.78 patch changed considerably and was frustrated at the amount of work necessary to put together a mod that gets changed with the next patch. IT IS ALOT OF WORK!

As to the people crying about "UBER" whatever, IMHO it is overcoming adversity and defying odds that makes this great game, well, great! I only play PBW now and when I lose, and you can bet that I do, I look at my strategies and the strategies of the opponent who took me out to see how I can learn.

With that said, I do think the change to the AS is unwelcome and unwarranted.

EDIT - Well if that doesn't lower my rating, nothing will!

[ October 12, 2002, 06:07: Message edited by: Gandalph ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I am playing in 2 games now where the primary reason I was instrumental in beating the Talisman was through the massive deployment of organic armor.

In the other it is the AS.

This patch reduces the edge of some "inconsistencies" (i.e. organic armor, AS), but in the wake of that move, the Talsiman and PPB become, in effect, even more powerful.

The massively glaring inconsisitency and unbalance of PPB remains unaddressed. That is the obvious gripe of a significant portion of SEIV game players.

How did "fixing" organic armor rank higher than levelling out PPBs?

This is a more than a patch... it does instigate an indirect upset to game balance.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What about Bases??? Shouldn't they be vulnerable, too? And maybe even fighters??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

EDIT: Well, maybe not fighters. How would you board a fighter??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree this needed done, but now there is now counter or disadvantage for using the MC (other than the high cost, which can be overcome...). Perhaps if the MC did NOT gain from experience? Then it would be a good counter for the AS, but would be inferior to vessels with a normal weapon load...

Or perhaps a MC equiped vessel would have a lower max experience level. For example, if you can train crews to do something (Ship/Fleet training facilities, default max 20%), surely you can program your MC with the same training. However, from 20% to 50% is just http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif experience learned in the field, and perhaps the MC wouldn't be able to expand it's own programming....

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This I like. One question, though: Will a ship with no undamaged OA still repair it all after combat?

This also has one downside. In turn based games, my OA equiped ships enter combat against yours, kill a few ships, then combat ends and all damaged armor regens. Then my fleet expends another movement point to enter combat again. Your ships are still partially damaged (unless you have OA too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), whilst mine have had some free repair done in the space of a few days....

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Huh?


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This also is excellent, and needed to be done.

[ October 12, 2002, 07:31: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

"2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type."

Um, this is just franky ridiclous. If you want the AS to only affect ships in SE4..only let it target ships. There is no reason to cripple modding like that.

Phoenix-D

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Well I am glad that I am not completely alone with my opinion!
My objection to the changes MM makes since the Last patch is a general one:
MM starts to remove things from SE which in my opinion is absurd:
In patch 1.78 he removed the ability of "damage engines only, skips shields", now he plans to remove the ability of the AS to work against ships/bases with destroyed master computer and the possibility to target units (something I never used).
I understand people who think that this might be more realistic or balanced, however don't you understand that this also reduces the complexity and variety of the game?
I strongly ask all people with some influence on MM: ask him to make such changes only as an option or in a way that can be modded back and not in an irreversible way.

Thank you for your understanding.

[ October 12, 2002, 09:08: Message edited by: Q ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I agree with Q. It is good that he is adressing issues, but bad that he is addressing them by reducing the moddable features....

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I noticed this, and there appears to be no end to what people seem to need to make the game balanced to perfection. Somethings up here. And IMO people aren't being completely honest with me on this subject ...

So, I am in the middle of my first PBW game. There are psychic races and religious races around me. But combat hasn't broken out yet.

WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTHER PBW GAMES

ahem sorry for shouting there guys cough cough hurt myself

Are some people dominating the game with their special racial choices? Are talisman mounted null space and polaron beams unstoppable. Some people say no, some people have to endlessly mod the rules in the need for perfect balance, and the debate rages on an on in this forum. Always friendly, but endless in frequency. All we get are hints, someone wants to alter the phased shield arrival, someone wants a Desecrater-class weapon to take out the talisman. The AS cascade has to be stopped.

People aren't being square with me on why these are needed. Change the names and post anonomusly if you feel like it.

In my PBW game, I'm in second to Last place. I have very few planets, only my home system rock planets and maybe 5 or 6 breathables elsewhere. Everyone else has traded colonization techs, so they're everywhere. If I lose, it will be my fault, I'll try to do better next time.

[Soapbox mode][SB]
If you get spanked by a newbie munckin, well, maybe new tactics on your part are what's needed. Not a hardcode change
[/SB][/Soapbox mode]

[ October 12, 2002, 18:31: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Either I don't quite get what you really want to say or are you really thinking its a conspiracy against you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Regarding OA:
I think it’s a good change. There is really no sense in your ship armor growing before it is even in combat. You don’t have a cancer ship with unlimited growth.

Regarding the Intel project:
When you intercepted a message, the game would only display the first few lines as you couldn’t scroll the message like you can when sending normal Messages.

Regarding the AS:
I can see Q’s point. However IMHO, reduced to the question if tuning down the AS is a good thing, it is. Even the PPB has a “counter”, phased shields. It remains a strong weapon but it won’t skip shields. Against the AS there is no defense as even the MC cannot protect you. Combine this with a Talisman and no one can stop you. BTW, we are discussing tuning the Talisman, too (know I have opened up a can of worms, don’t I? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ). The best idea in this regard IMHO is at the moment making the Talisman hit only every X turns, rendering it useless the other y turns until “recharged”. We’ll see what MM thinks of this.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

"Combine this with a Talisman and no one can stop you."

That's 3000 racial points and a LOT of research. Could very well use the overwhelming numbers strategy.

And I still see no reason to remove the ability for the AS to hit things other than ships no matter what you tell it to do.

Phoenix-D

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I agree that the change to the AS makes sense, I've been saying that all along. My gripe is that the counter to the AS is too powerful and doesn't make sense. A ship that has had it's MC (or even it's bridge) should not be capable of combat and this should be changed too. That's all I've been saying.

Fixing the talisman? I didn't know it was broke. We're talking about a racial trait that gets no weapons and only combat component is extremely expensive to research. Please, at least leave this change moddable.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type2.

THIS is what annoys me, in case people think I'm defending the current setup. I LIKE the other change, though it should get a settings.txt entry so it can be changed back if wanted.

Phoenix-D

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Originally posted by Arkcon
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, in my games, I'm finding that the specialized techs you choose have nothing to do with victory. The skill of the player is paramount as well as his tenacity. Players who will not give up, often work marvels.

I have played in less than 10 games on PBW and have already been involved in a victory over a very powerful religious race, have had a huge empire and got creamed by a superior player, pulled myself up by my bootstraps to win another and am in one with a truly amazing player who's weakness I have yet to find-- and if I don't find it, I'm toast!

The techs involved are irrelevant, the skills of the players are everything. In fact, I find it hard to remember which special techs (if any) the other players have. It just doesn't seem to matter that much. Sure, I will customize my ship designs to counter those techs, but that is "if" and "when" and only if needed.

If you think you are losing to the talisman and the AS, you are actually losing to a superior player.

Kim

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Re: AS and Talisman.

I've thought about this lately and i think i know what is needed. The problem is that AS and Talisman are 100% weapons. AS has a base of almost 100% convert chance, and when mounted it is 100% at any range. Talisman is also 100% component. It eliminates the chances of players to miss.

AS must be either disallowed to be used with mounts or have the chance decreased that Large mount would not take them to about 100%, only Massive would. This way it would not be 100% sure convert. Also a smart counter to this weapon is simply destroying it, but the large tonnage means large damage resistance, which is doubled when mounted. Again, disallowing mounts to be applied on AS seems to be the answer for me.

Talisman should be given something like +200% or so bonus so it would be *almost* sure yet with the same 1% or more to miss.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or, just stay out of it's range... that could work... I guess... since almost all weapons outrange it... just a suggestion... ya know...

[ October 12, 2002, 19:11: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Here are some ideas I think would work well and not take away from the game: </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Allegiance Subverters should be able to convert only vehicles with life support components on them.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Talisman should have about 90-95% chance to hit, rather than 100% or as Mephisto suggested, have the Talisman recharge every other turn or so.
  </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you can easily get 3k of racial points. Just take away some of your repair ability and ground combat. Or, for the religious, take away your aggressiveness. You will gain lots and lots of points and you really don't need this skill as you hit the enemy anyway.
Overwhelming numbers are fine but you need at least a ratio of 2:1 and that’s hard against a religious player as you get very fine system wide facilities that increase your economy. I easily out produce and outgun every empire in my PBEM game and if I'm not VERY mistaken I really could take them on all.
Further, research cost is very relative. My Empire has around 100 planets and I produce 800k research points. You name the tech, I get it in no time. Seriously, if you really want, you can have the Talisman after round about 40 turns. Even if you only have DUC or PPB, you will smash the enemy as you hit with every weapon every time. Combine this with large weapon platforms (quite cheap to research) and your are in deep trouble to attack my worlds.
I'm not whining because I loose a game against a religious player but all my enemies are at the receiving end bad times!
In fact as was stated, the "all or nothing" concept behind the talisman and the AS are what is crippling the game balance. If you would hit with the AS 50% of the time, no change would be needed.
Regarding bases: The history.txt in unclear/wrong on this. You can still take over bases, just no units.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">People have explained why they think &ltpick a component/facility/trait&gt needs to be changed, in excruciating detail, and people who disagree have made exhaustive counterarguments.

Ultimately, the "problem" is that there are so many possibilities that there's very little consensus on either the problems or the solutions.

[ October 13, 2002, 23:04: Message edited by: capnq ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Contray to popular myth, there are no people with any special connection to Malfador. Even among the beta team members, we have all the same discussions that occur in the general forum. We throw around ideas, and have debtes that sometimes degenerate into arguments. And in the end ANYONE can email Malfador if they have a suggestion or a complaint. Nobody's emails get any more notice than anyone elses.

Geoschmo

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I agree in part with Q.
Think MM is removing things from SE4, that some people considered "features" and others "bugs".
After 2 years, lots of people love or hate these features/bugs, and lots of mods where based on these features/bugs.
Without doubts, these changes will strongly modify the game balance (for good or for bad will depend of each one!), then, think that an optional setting should be included, instead change these things in a compulsive way.
IMHO, of course.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

"Well, you can easily get 3k of racial points. Just take away some of your repair ability and ground combat. Or, for the religious, take away your aggressiveness. You will gain lots and lots of points and you really don't need this skill as you hit the enemy anyway."

For that same 3000 points you could get Hardy Industrialists, 120 Construction, 120 mining, and a 12% maintaince reduction. This races produces at 5280 per turn on turn one; enough to pop out a colony ship per turn without emergency build.

The religious/pysic race, on the other hand, builds at 3899. Hitting emergancy build takes them to the same speed as the Hardy race, but of course only for 10 turns. The Time Shrine, maxed, gives a 15% bonus- LESS than the bonus the first race has to minerals without even having to research or build a thing. And it doesn't stack with the System Robotoid factory, so once the Hardy player has one of those the advantage goes away- the factory produces twice as much effect, BTW.

The religious race can build a high-tech BC in 5 turns. The hardy race can build the same BC in 4 turns, and maintain more of them.

EDIT: hard maintance 2224. Relgious maintance 4277. I'm not saying these might not need toning down, but they aren't unstoppable.

EDIT again:
"Even if you only have DUC or PPB, you will smash the enemy as you hit with every weapon every time."

Hitting 100% of the time won't compensate if your ships are inferior. PPB isn't an inferior weapon, actually IMO it's more unbalanced (relative to cost to get it vs benifits) than the Talisman.

[ October 13, 2002, 01:07: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

You want to know what the solution to the Religious/Psychic combo is? Play games with 0 racial points. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Phoenix, I agree with everything else in your post except this point. Hitting 100% of the time will compensate for a LOT of dificencies in other areas. Which is a fact you would have learned first hand if you had stuck around a little longer in the Dimension X 2 game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

At one pont Mark was using Destroyers with DUC's and EASILY handling fleets twice the size of his fleets with Lioght Cruisers and suprior weapons and shield technology. And doing it against two other empires simultaneously. It's only been by intensive cooperation between several races, and a couple of strategic mistakes on his part that we were able to take advantage of that has finally brought his empire under check.

But the rest of what you said is right on. I believe it's only because of the ten planet start that Mark was able to get the Tailsman as fast as he did. In a simgle planet start it would have likely taken him so long to get that the advantage it gave him would not have been quite so pronounced.

Geoschmo

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I have a Talisman-equipped opponent in one of my games. The first few encounters- until he stopped my push with a minefield- went pretty badly for him.

EDIT: I'd need to dredge the numbers up, but he had APBs, DNs, and Armor III I had BCs with Meson V and phased shield II. That kind of deficancy wasn't healthly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[ October 13, 2002, 03:49: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]