OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Totally off topic Math Fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Question: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms?

To calculate the speed of light in SE4 terms, we need some way to convert between the two systems. Initially I was assuming that 1 A.U. was 3 SE4 sectors, based on the orbital position of Earth being the third planet from Sol. Using this as a calculation, I come up with the speed of light in SE4 terms as being 16,200 sectors per turn (month).

There is an obvious problem with this assumption however. If we assume that the Earth is three sectors from the sun, then the most distant planet from it's star is only 2 A.U. away. 2 A.U. is just outside the orbit of Mars, while Pluto is around 40 A.U.. Either the Solar system is extraordinarily large, or the system maps in SE4 are an abstract representation, and not drawn to scale. I think the second is more likely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I have a reasonable hypothesis however. Ship drives in SE4 are obviously affected in some way by the proximity to the Star at the center of the system. This results in slower speeds relative light in the inner parts of the system than in the outer parts. This would make a calculation of light speed difficult, but not impossible.

If we assume the distance across a star system is 80 A.U. (Distance from Sol to Pluto x 2), and we assume a ship travelling this distance across a star system, we can calculate the average speed of the ship relative to light, and thus be able to ignore the variations in speed in various parts of the system.

Known:
Distance from Sol to Pluto = approx 40 A.U.
Time for light to travel 1 A.U. = approx. 8 min

Assumption:
60 Earth minutes in an SE4 Hour
24 Earth Hours in an SE4 day

Calculations:
60 x 24 x 30 = 43,200 minutes per month
43,200 / 8 = 5,400 Number of A.U. Light travels in a month

5,400 / (40/6) = Light travels 810 sectors per month.

We can assume light speed to be constant in SE4, but remember, since ship speed varies in relation to light speed depending on how close to the center of the system you are, ship speed per month can only be given as an average, or an approximation. But, for a ship in SE4 terms to travel the speed of light it would have to be able to travel 810 sectors in a turn (month).

The key to understanding this is that a SE4 sector is not a fixed distance. A sector is smaller in terms of A.U. in the interior of the star system than at the edge. But over a distance of 810 sectors, the average distance of the sectors is such that the total distance is the same as the distance light travels in that amount of time.

So PvK, 1000 is high, but not too bad for a ballpark guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

[ October 24, 2002, 19:10: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Even though Earth is 3rd planet, one can argue that it is two, not three sectors away from Sol -
Mercury can be modeled as sitting on "top" of star. Thus you can rescale your calculations by 2/3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Actually, you quoted me, not Fryon. I wasn't even addressing Fryon in that discussion, but Graeme Dice, who was saying that SE4 started out with faster-than-light drives (i.e., speed 6 would be greater than light).

This is an interesting academic question, but as long as there is no interstellar movement without instantaneous warp points, it's of course not practical at all, for gameplay reasons. SE4 maps and movement are hugely abstracted, and a ship that could move even 100 sectors per turn would er, change the gameplay quite a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is worth noting. It would affect any sort of calculation of the various distances for each sector. But doesn't affect my calculations for the speed of light in sectors. Since my calculations are based on the distance of Pluto to the Sun, and I am of course assuming that Pluto is 6 sectors from the Sun.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sory about the misquote. Fixed it.

Yes a ship that could move 100 sectors would affect the game play just a bit. Assuming of course that the warp points were still there. But a ship capable of 100, or even a 1000 for that matter, sectors per month movement would still take many years to travel between systems without the warp points.

Even Light speed aint all that fast on a galactic scale. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

If you want the answer to these and similar questions, try reading "The Physics of Star Trek" - see link below. Be forewarned that most of the discussions in the book show that it is impossible to do all the things you see in Star Trek. Since the arguments are based only on the current knowledge of physics, I like to believe that there is lots of undiscovered physics out there that not only makes it possible, but makes it feasible. It's a pretty good read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...99854?v=glance

Slick

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

If you agree that you can't go faster than the speed of light (excepting warp points), light speed would be 30. After all, in a simultaneous game ships can't move any faster than 30 sectors/turn.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That just means light speed is at least 30. If lightspeed was higher, we'd still agree that SE4 ships aren't capable of going at the speed of light.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

why 30? Aint 255 the max allowed mov?

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

There are only 30 days in a simultaneous game month.
Ships can only move 30 in simultaneous games, no matter how mant MP they have.

If you are talking a modded sequential turn game, then the max would be at least 510 movement.

255 standard, plus 255 (or more) bonus movement, IIRC.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For turn based games I think you are right. But for simultaneous turn games the max a ship can move in any turn is 30 spaces. The reason for this is the way movement is calculated in simultaneous turn games. Each turn is divided into 30 days, and the total allowed movement of a ship is divided by 30. The result is the number of days between moves for each ship/fleet. But the maximum any ship/fleet will move in any one day is 1 space. So the result is a ship with more than 30 available movement will move one space per day until the end of the turn and the excess movement is wasted.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Except in combat, where all of that excess movement can be used. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe. Try catching a ship with 100+ speed in caombat set to "Do not get hurt"...

There he is! No, he's over there! No, now he's over there! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a plane!

No!

It's a bird!

No!

It's a kite!

No!

It's a...

Geo's Uber PPB Dreadnought!

Oh S***.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a plane!

No!

It's a bird!

No!

It's a kite!

No!

It's a...

Geo's Uber PPB Dreadnought!

Oh S***.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ROFLOL! Oh dear god that was great. Enjoyed that one alot man. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

...Taz reads all the preceeding Posts and quickly decides to sneak very quietly out of THIS thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

P.S. Did they ever determine how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 24, 2002, 07:41: Message edited by: Taz-in-Space ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

tbontob notices Taz sneaking out, and decides to vacate the room for the same reason. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Angels dancing on the head of a pin? Before I answer, would you tell me what type of PIN? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

*Taz and tbontob are sneaking away from the thread, looking over their shoulders to see if anyone spotted them when they bump into a pair of legs. They look up to see Dogscoff standing in the way with a Big Gun, a very serious conuntenance and some expressive but utterly inappropriate Capital Letters."

"GeoSchmo is speaking. Sit and be Educated."

*T&T slink back to their seats...

[ October 24, 2002, 16:46: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Thank you D. Now listen up students. If you wish to calculate the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, you must first come up with some observable, quantifiable, scientific evidence that conclusivly proves the exsistance of pins.

Geoschmocrates

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

oleg sneaks from behind and prick Geo with a pin thus conclusively proving its existence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 24, 2002, 19:38: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

No, that only proves the existence of a prickly matter that has punctured Geo's back using pressure. It could be a nail, for all we know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Edit: Don't know why I wrote tension.

[ October 24, 2002, 23:03: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Lemme out of here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(tbontob covertly looks at dogscoff to see if he can outpace a speeding bullet to the door!)

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

You know what I'm thinking?... I'm thinking you almost need a collage degree just to read these forums. Talking of speed of light and so forth, it's got me all confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif That happens alot though...

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Poor, Ragnarok!! sniff....sniff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

OK Teach geoschmo, as soon as that observable, quantifiable, scientific evidence that conclusivly proves the exsistance of pins is supplied. Before I can give a observable, quantifiable answer as to the number of Angel that can dance on it! I still need to know, what kind of pin? Your student, mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ October 25, 2002, 06:35: Message edited by: mlmbd ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

This sentence does not exist.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Maybe sanity no longer exists in this room!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm beginning to lean towards that conclusion. But not only in this room...In this whole forum... Isn't it great!!

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Sanity, Sanity!!

Are you inferring I am INSANE??

That makes REALLY crazy!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Crazy??? That's not crazy. Crazy's walkin around with half a cantalope on your head saying "I'm a
hampster!"

[ October 25, 2002, 20:14: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Thank you Ragnarok! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And there I was, thinking I may be crazy walking around with a quarter of a cantelope on my head and saying "I am a Humpster"

Whew!!! Nice to know I am sane. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

What is the difference between a

Humpster

and a

Hampster?

One sounds like a new kind of sex-toy while the other is..well...an...older Version of the same toy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">HA HA HA HA! I get it!

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Yes it is a good thing you thinking you are Humpster not a Hampster. Cantalope or not. I.E., I am the Humpster, Mighty Mighty Humpster. Everywhere I go, I tell them. I am the Humpster.................

Bow, to the HUMPSTER!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

oh yeah, another thing I am not POOR! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

you guys are sick....... but not insane.... (I hope)

I have heard stories from EMT and Emergency Room personnel about people getting hamsters stuck up there..... ouch. Just say no!

KirbyEF

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Haven't seen a hamster there but other ... ah ... tools...

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Uh, Teach! IF I do my Giant Mutant Hampster impersonation, can I leave this class now?

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tobontob nudges Taz and says, "I think you need to speak to Dogscoff and his Big Gun".

Peering at the catatonic expression, drooling countenance and rolling eyes of Dogscoff, tbontob adds "I think you will have better luck convincing the 'Big Gun' for permission to leave than Dogscoff."

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Now who moved the Cantina into Geo's Class Room?
Go on own up...

[ October 28, 2002, 05:04: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

What's with all the finger pointing????? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">:Points finger at everyone, one after the other:

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Ok I admit it. I was the one that exceeded the fire code capacity for the number of angels allowed to dance on the head of a pin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif In my own defense I was unaware of the fire code capacity #'s. Second since no one has proven the existence of pins; I plan to plead not guilty.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Besides them angels just love to dance. Their money was soo green and Angels really have no other use for money and will pay almost anything to go pin dancing.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

(from somewhere in the back of the room, a muffled voice comes from a meek figure wearing a pointy conehat, perched uncomfortably on a high chair faced into a corner...)

"Um, Teach?

Teach, I, um, once shot a Beam weapon at a Klingon Assault Pod 20 sectors away. It, ah... it took about two seconds for the blue graphic line thingy to reach him, and, um, ... so.. ah, light speed could be about, um, a tenth of a second a sector... and it usually takes me about three and half weeks to finish a game... so, ah... um... ah..."

(The rest of the statement was quickly lost in a pelting shower of spitballs and paper airplanes)

Combat Squirrel

[ October 29, 2002, 18:07: Message edited by: CombatSquirrel ]

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

Coburn Rooster...? Or is it Coghill rooster? Anyways the Rooster which normally appears on TV, grabs CombatSquirrel by the scruff of his neck and proceeds to batter him while saying in his impossibly deep voice "What's the matter with you, boy? You gotta stand up to them! Live up to your name! Are you a CombatSquirrel or arn't you? Fight them! And do not let them walk all over you!"

Then the Rooster stalks off leaving the groaning, moaning CombatSquirrel in a jumbled red mess, a condition far worse than anything had been inflicted on him before.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean Foghorn Leghorn of Looney Tunes fame?

Or Rooster Cogburn, played by John Wayne in the movies "True Grit" and "Rooster Cogburn" (and by Warren Oates in the TV Version of "True Grit")?

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

...Taz,figuring that it might hurt less being shot than staying in this thread, Makes a break for the door!

Dogscoff's gun tracks and fires...

...and a little flag pops out and says &#1 POP! &#1

And a hysterically laughing Taz whirlwind fades into the distance...

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeh, that's the one! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I don't watch the stuff, but my kids did. I'd be reading or working in the same room with them (or even being in a few rooms down the hall) when all of a sudden Foghorn Leghorn would put a beating on some poor lil ol schmo for the sole purpose of "educating him/her".

And that deep commanding voice was so intrusive that I couldn't help but look up at the TV.

What was interesting was that Leghorn was so self-assured in his actions and the tone of voice so pervasive, that he didn't have the tiniest shred of self-doubt that a beating may not be the best way to teach something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Needless to say, my children and I had a number of discussions over the next few weeks as as to the different styles of communicating an idea and the effectiveness of each in the long and short term.

Re: OT: How fast is light speed in SE4 terms? -> Maximum possible speed? -> insanity
 

186,000 miles per second is not just a good idea,
It's the law.