P&N for v1.78?
 

I've just discovered, much to my dismay, that P&N is not compatible with SE4/Gold v1.78 (errors all over the place). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

P&N is one of my Favorites; there isn't a more recent Version than 2.5b available from PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Does anyone know if thre's been an update? If so, where can I get a copy of it ... ?

[EDIT]
Never mind, got the needed info direct from the source. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
[/EDIT]

[ October 27, 2002, 05:13: Message edited by: Pax ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Just follow my sig, and choose a Version 3 (gold), rather than a Version 2(classic).

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Version 3 rocks - can't wait for the PBW edition so we can have P&N on PBW, take 3 - and I can be competing with SJ for people's business in the black market!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Hey i'm definitly in on the "black market" as it were. SJs going to have some serious competition now! That was a great idea of his.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Ummmm....
Well, I might be willing to host it, even if I don't play (which would be a bummer....)

So are you close to finishing the PBW Version, or is it still in it's infancy?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

I'm not quite sure how far along the PBW Version is...

I do know that I have yet to:
- go through and rebuild the weapons. This will have to wait for the next public patch, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
- Add some racial traits (Gun Nuts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
- Copy in the legacy facilities from v2.6
- Rebuild the mine warfare system. (little to no sweeping, much fewer mines, and maybe lower mines-per-sector)
- anything else in my to-do list.

So, considering that the first item isn't worth doing until the next patch, and the only other major item is the mines thing, plus the fact that you guys really want it... I'll try and put it together this week.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Hey, you know, a merchant race with the gun nuts trait could make a LOT of money selling frigates enhanced with the Large Weapons Mount... nobody can even analyze it for tech because it's a racial trait! heh heh heh... I know what empire I'm playing next time - Crazy Edgar's Olde KABOOM!!! Shoppe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ("One stick of dynamite in the left pocket, one stick of dynamite in the right pocket, and KABOOM! No more pesky ex-husband!") http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (Anyone actually recognize this reference? SJ, you ARE from Ontario... hint hint!)

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Pirate's & Nomad's Version 3.0 for Se4 1.78 is already available as a game Version on PBW. Has been for a while now. Or are you all talking about some other P&N Version specifically designed for PBW?

Geoschmo

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Ok, now I'm starting to worry.
My hard drive was giving me trouble... crashing or almost-crashing every now and then on startup.
I got a new drive, but the drive image I had didn't stick.
Now tonight I discover that the new drive is running a temperature of over 40 degrees C. On the outside. The whole drive rack was unpleasantly warm.

I do not like this at all. I was expecting to have migrated all my stuff to the new drive already.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Hmmm guess this is a good thread to post a question about P&N

I noticed the AI's are bulding fighters with Small Rocket Pods using a Micro Mount. Which would appear to give them a weapone with 0 damage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Any way to avoid this? Will using your AI Patcher avoid this?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

That would be a bug. The rocket pods are already fighter-sized, and micromounting them ruins 'em.

I guess I'll have to type up a huge restriction list for the fighter mounts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Update on my situation:
I have got a new, new harddrive, and after staying up all night, I've managed to pull off the most important stuff from my old disk.
Had to replace my CPU fan, since it just gave up the ghost, too.

Scandisk is slowly cleaning up the copies I've made... been running for a few hours now...
Some files were crosslinked five ways, it seems.

If all goes well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif I should be able to restore my c-drive image, and be back in business tomorrow.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

SJ, you should include the No AI Mod with future releases of the PBW Versions of P&N. You don't want the AI attempting to play those Versions, so why not kill it at the source?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

"That would be a bug. The rocket pods are already fighter-sized, and micromounting them ruins 'em."

Or just up the rocket pod sizd and damage..simpler. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

All good ideas, you two.

Was it Geo who made the No-AI mod?

PS:
My C: drive has apparently been restored sucessfully, since I am posting this from my machine.
Unfortunately, I didn't quite plan ahead properly, and in restoring my C: drive, I lost access to my D: drive (with almost everything except windows).
So, I can't get at my low-level drive management tools to make my D: drive visible.
I'll have to borrow a rescue disk on Monday.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Yes, Geo made that mod.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Well, bad news.

All those files I copied were left with their DOS-Version (8 character limit) names, so most of my stuff is pretty much useless without the horrible job of renaming of 40,000 files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I'll have to try and pull them out again...

EDIT
Ah! Finally.
System restored. Now I just have to catch up on sleep http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 06, 2002, 01:44: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

With my computer repaired, SE4 modding continues!

SJ's ToDo list for P&N PBW:
- large drives!
- ruins & racial crossovers
- Major training facilities are spaceborne.
+ small racial armors. (done)
- Totally redo weapons.
- Gun Nuts -200 kt to mount requirements.
- Redo mines & sweeping system
- Training facilities only on maintenance-bearing bases. Cost scales as max% cubed or so. Max training fairly unlimited, but to double the training, you pay roughly 8x as much in maintenance.

Any other suggestions?

[ November 06, 2002, 03:42: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Formations. Ask Mephisto if you can borrow the Formations file he made for TDM that has a bunch of extra slots in them so that extra ships won't start in completely random places, far from the main battle lines.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

SJ, you can of course use the formations.txt from the TDM-ModPack. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

S_J,

Please do include some smaller weapons for racial and cross-over techs.

CombatSquirrel

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

SJ's ToDo list for P&N PBW:
- add no-ai files
- add TDM formations
- recheck weapons for unit mounting.
- large drives!
- ruins & racial crossovers
- Major training facilities are spaceborne.
X small racial armors.
- Totally redo weapons.
X Gun Nuts -200 kt to mount requirements.
- Redo mines & sweeping system
- Training facilities only on maintenance-bearing bases. Cost scales as max% cubed or so. Max training fairly unlimited, but to double the training, you pay roughly 8x as much in maintenance.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

One thing I don't understand about a lot of mods is this desire to create massive ships and engines etc. I would prefer to see a more varied array of smaller ships, perhaps combined with some interesting mounts - especially for a P&N!

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, we have Carrier type hulls, Transport type hulls, Colony stype hulls,a dn the generic "Warship" type hulls.

What other type could you come up with, that's not based on installing a single specific component ... ?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Well, P&N does encourage a wider variety of small ships.
I didn't add many new hulls, but the game settings do encourage it.

Eg: Speed 12 Escorts used as scout ships in the first turns.
Due to QNP, small ships are almost as effective as larger ships in combat, so warships tend to be smaller longer.
QNP also allows for variety of balanced designs; fast interceptors, lumbering assault ships, heavily shielded fortresses.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

SJ's ToDo list for P&N PBW:
- add no-ai files
- add TDM formations
- recheck weapons for unit mounting.
X large drives!
X Scale up solar sails 10x, and add more levels.
- ruins & racial crossovers
X small racial armors.
X add more levels of shield regenerators (up to 2x rate at maxtech)
X tweak mini-regenerators to match the full size regens.
X add more levels of solar collector tech.
- Totally redo weapons.
X Gun Nuts -200 kt to mount requirements.
- Redo mines & sweeping system
- Major training facilities are spaceborne.
- Training facilities only on maintenance-bearing bases. Cost scales as max% cubed or so. Max training fairly unlimited, but to double the training, you pay roughly 8x as much in maintenance.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It seems that with the new update I miss a lot of images. What happened?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

You may need to download and install the Image Mod (which is linked in my sig).

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thx, that hit the problem exactly!

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

SJ, will there ever be anything that can be built from "Rube Goldberg Designs" or is it just to make sure players don't *always* get anything useable from a tech stash?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Dumbluck: Thanks for the suggestions!
Done, Done, and Done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There's nothing currently planned for RGD tech. If you have some appropriate suggestions, I would be willing to add them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

SJ's ToDo list for P&N PBW:
- add no-ai files
X add TDM formations
X add super popmodifiers file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
X adjust prices for characteristics. (Be sure to look closely at the most common, and most ignored ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )
X fix minor image/sound bugs.
X disallow unit mounts on DU autocannons.
X recheck weapons for unit mounting and clean up availability list.
- Change Allegiance Subverter into anti-boarding-defense Mental Shredder.
- Change Talisman into a vehicle mount.
- Add drones to Pirate races.
- Add seekers to fighters
X Repair small gravitic drive MP/kt settings.
- Change supply storage tech requirements to require resupply tech. Rename resupply tech to supply storage tech.
X Extend unit shield mounts to cover mini-shield generators.
X large drives!
X Scale up solar sails 10x, and add more levels.
- ruins & racial crossovers
X small racial armors.
X add more levels of shield regenerators (up to 2x rate at maxtech)
X tweak mini-regenerators to match the full size regens.
X add more levels of solar collector tech.
- Adjust prices & supply use of weapons.
- Adjust facility costs to reflect labour.
X Gun Nuts -200 kt to mount requirements.
- Redo mines & sweeping system
- Major training facilities are spaceborne.
- Training facilities only on maintenance-bearing bases. Cost scales as max% cubed or so. Max training fairly unlimited, but to double the training, you pay roughly 8x as much in maintenance.

[ November 09, 2002, 16:30: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Man, this is sounding like sooooo much fun!

Can we assume that you're using your old PBW population modifiers?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

SJ's ToDo list for P&N PBW:
- add no-ai files
X add TDM formations
X add super popmodifiers file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
X adjust prices for characteristics. (Be sure to look closely at the most common, and most ignored ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )
X fix minor image/sound bugs.
X disallow unit mounts on DU autocannons.
X recheck weapons for unit mounting and clean up availability list.
- Change Allegiance Subverter into anti-boarding-defense Mental Shredder.
- Change Talisman into a vehicle mount.
- Add SpaceYard Expansion projects.
- Convert to limited supplies mode.
- Add drones to Pirate races.
- Add seekers to fighters
X Repair small gravitic drive MP/kt settings.
- Change supply storage tech requirements to require resupply tech. Rename resupply tech to supply storage tech.
X Extend unit shield mounts to cover mini-shield generators.
X large drives!
X Scale up solar sails 10x, and add more levels.
- ruins & racial crossovers
X small racial armors.
X add more levels of shield regenerators (up to 2x rate at maxtech)
X tweak mini-regenerators to match the full size regens.
X add more levels of solar collector tech.
- Adjust prices & supply use of weapons.
X Adjust facility costs to reflect labour.
X Gun Nuts -200 kt to mount requirements.
- Redo mines & sweeping system
- Major training facilities are spaceborne.
- Training facilities only on maintenance-bearing bases. Cost scales as max% cubed or so. Max training fairly unlimited, but to double the training, you pay roughly 8x as much in maintenance.

[ November 09, 2002, 19:23: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about the High Energy Minimizer - instead of increasing the power of a weak beam like the High Energy Magnifier, it decreases the power of a strong beam into something completely useless! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif "By means of multiply redundant electrical resistors and nineteen successive stages of 50% entropic-loss matter-to-energy conVersions, a fairly powerful energy beam is converted into a tiny pellet projected from a popgun not even strong enough to stun a mouse."

(BTW, why'd you post the same list of features twice? Did you complete a few and put X's by them? Didn't notice any differences at first glance...)

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

I've been completing some, and adding others http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here's one (note the Family Number and Pic Number are both left blank); if someone could put together a creditable Rube Goldberg looking component picture, it'd be absolutely hilarious (and I dunno, this thing MIGHT even be marginally useful in some situations ...):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Name := Goldberg Combat System
Description := Multipurpose combat system, which &quot;does it all, and then some&quot; ...
Pic Num :=
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 500
Cost Radioactives := 500
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family :=
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Rube Goldberg Designs
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 7
Ability 1 Type := Long Range Scanner
Ability 1 Descr := Scans shisp 1 sector away.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Phased Shield Generation
Ability 2 Descr := Phased Shielding
Ability 2 Val 1 := 25
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Lay Mines
Ability 3 Descr := Can deploy mines.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 1
Ability 3 Val 2 := 1
Ability 4 Type := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Ability 4 Descr := Increases overall accuracy.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 1
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Combat Modifier Defense Plus
Ability 5 Descr := Jams enemy targetting sensors.
Ability 5 Val 1 := 1
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Shield Regeneration
Ability 6 Descr := Replenishes shields.
Ability 6 Val 1 := 5
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Solar Supply Generation
Ability 7 Descr := Generates energy from solar winds
Ability 7 Val 1 := 10
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
Weapon Damage Type := Skips All Shields
Weapon Reload Rate := 4
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 18
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := radbomb.wav
Weapon Family := 15</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

I like it!

The component picture could be a vast contraption built up of the other component pictures.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

A Rube Goldberg isn't supposed to do anything useful though. Yours does, although not anything very well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This reminds me of the Canon cannon that was posted a while back. Didn't you make that one SJ?

Geoschmo

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suppose that depends on one's definition of "useful" -- a 40kT gun, +1% to hit, +1% to defense, scan jammgiven the size, about the only useful aspects are, huge range and skipping -all- shield types. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Then again, at 5 damage per 4 rounds per 40kT, it's still simply not worth it (1.25damage per round per 40kT, which works out to less than 0.04 damage per kt per round ...).

The shields are just enought o be a teaser, as is the regeneration rate; the solar supply generation is laughably small; and given it's a 40kT gun with only 20kT of structure (too easy to ruin one SMALL part upon which the operation of the whole is dependant, heh), it's laughably easy to disarm.

This MIGHT be very useful early on, if you discover it (say) before turn 20. Maybe (an escort with one of those could be fun). but not likely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Mainly the idea is, to try to do everything ... and fail miserably on all fronts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Just wait, I'm trying to come up with a whole STRING of "useless but seems ALMOST useful" components. Perhaps eventually to BECOME useful ... so someone who pursues a Rube Goldberg Design -tech area- ... might EVENTUALLY come out on top.

If they aren't laughed out of the galaxy before then, that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[EDIT]
Hmm.

An entire Rube Goldberg MOD could be fun to play fora while. Lol.

Or make it a racial trait, heheh-

Hey.

I wonder, can you make a Racial Tech also be a Ruins Tech? Without duplicating all the components? 8) Might be an interesting idea, for some of the "lesser" racial techs (i.e. P&N's Living Ships, or Packrats, or the like).
[/EDIT]

[ November 11, 2002, 17:48: Message edited by: Pax ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Aw, c'mon, doesn't anybody like the High Energy Minimizer? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Oh well, I can always add it to MY mod...

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only problem is, NOONE woudl EVER use it.

Regardless of the thematics of making something useless (IOW, a Rube Goldberg component) ... for the effort of actually exploring the Ruins, you shoudl get something of that has at least the potential to be of SOME use, in the right circumstances.

I can actually see a benefit in there being several "Rube Goldberg Designs" ruins-tech fields, each one with a different "almost useful" component or facility attached to it.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Nope, the Canon cannon isn't mine.

And Goldberg devices DO do something useful.
They keep shop windows clean, sharpen pencils, and various other tasks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Usually, they complete a single very simple task in a very complicated way though.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perhaps a better way to think of it would be "I can beat you with one hand tied behind my back" type components http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the high energy minimizer, it still needs something... It isn't really accomplishing anything, you know?
Perhaps if it were a safety device. A tech area of Goldberg Weapon Safety Systems, could include the High Energy Minimizer...
I just need matching devices for seekers, projectile weapons, and warheads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, the Goldberg designs tech area was originally created so that most Ruins would turn out to be "fake". The goal of the change was to make "Ruins Rushing" and "Ruins Camping" a bit harder...

[ November 11, 2002, 20:59: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah.

My solution will be, the tech you get from the Ruins only opens up the ABILITY, at great expense, to research fields which will bear otherwise-unreachable fruits.

And I'll also perhaps make it so not one single Ruins planet gives out levels of any APPLIED technologies; Theoreticals at best. As for ruins-hunting, I've always preferred to find some component or facility that ONLY comes from ruins, rather than getting a bagful of normal tech levels ...

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Safety systems... Yes, that sounds good... Discover "Advanced Bureaucracy" and you get the "OSHA-Approved Weapons Mount"* which increases weapon size and cost 100%, decreases damage by 50%, but increases accuracy by +30 (The government is nothing if not precise!)

*for those of you outside the US, OSHA is the government organization that regulates occupational safety

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

I don't know if this is a bug or intentional but in a recent game I was a pirate and had a Nomad Ally. As part of a trade deal I would lend him a planet so he could build be a space yard on it.(since Nomad space yards are way better) However when I got the planet back the space yard reverted back to the pirates type. I'm guessing this is maybe because the facilities have the same name??

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

That is a pretty strange effect. I can rename the facilities, and see if that helps.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Can someone tell me why when I play as a normal my Space Yard I's build with 2000 of each resource? When I look at the components.txt file if would appear as if Space Yard I's should be building with 1000 of each resource.

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Probably racial characteristics/traits and/or pop levels. Is this on your homeworld?

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

Nope homeworld is much higher. It is on brand new world with low pop. Plus even the description of the Space Yard I in the game says 'builds with 2000 per turn' (even though like I said in the components.txt it says they build with 1000)

Re: P&N for v1.78?
 

The Normal's spaceyards DO build at 2000.

The Pirates & Nomads get 1000 rate planetary yards.

On the component Shipyards, that is reversed.
Are you looking at the components.txt to find info on facilities???