using moray
 

i was wondering where i can find tutorials on basic modelling and how to make a triangle or a pyramid in moray

Re: using moray
 

well.. as i always say in such cases i have some more basic tutorials on my ol' Ora planet website.
The link is http://oraplanet.tripod.com .
But you cant make complex objects in moray, for this you'd have to learn CSGs. Its nothing difficult, but you have to know it.
If you want, i can write short tutor how to use them, plus i could share a ship or two from my own collection to show you how i do different things.

Re: using moray
 

it would be nice to have a tutorial because im trying to create a shipset from the gundam universe. It would be nice of you to share a ship or two to show me how you do things. I am quite new to this. Thanks for your help.

Re: using moray
 

check your mail.

Re: using moray
 

I am also trying to learn how to use Moray (+POV Ray) to make shipsets. Taera, if Moray can't make complex objects, is it worth learning or should I try a different program? I'm just starting out, and it would be a shame to put 50 hours into learning the program only to find out it's not powerful enough to make good shipsets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: using moray
 

You can make complex objects in moray but they are called CSGs and are combinations/differences of simpler shapes.

Re: using moray
 

for some reason i cant redner anything i make in moray in pov-ray. I get this error: commdan line error: unrecognized output file format x
return from renderer with error status. How do i fix this problem??

Re: using moray
 

Check render options in Moray...try setting it on .bmp for the output file type...

Re: using moray
 

Thanks Captain Kwok. I'll keep working my way through the tutorials in Moray... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: using moray
 

ok guess i'll write something short about CGSs.

There are four types of CSGs:
Union, Difference,Intersection and Merge.

Union is simply a group that allows you to control and copy and whatever all objects put into it as one object. useful when you have to copy that single turret 20 times. Displays all objects in group.

Difference. You better study this CSG the best you can because it is the most commonly used one. It acts very simple - it removes all the parts of the first object added to it whenever it intersects with the other objects. Try this:
Create a sphere. create a cube. move the cube to (-1.0, 0.0, 0.0). create CSG group. add the sphere and then the cube (in this particular order). Change the "operation" of CSG to difference. press the "evaluate" button aviable when CSG is chosen. Displays only the first object, with parts of it cut off regarding to the rest of the objects.

Intersection is the opposite of Difference. It shows only those parts of the first object in the list that are intersecting with other objects down the list. Displays only the first object, intersected.

Merge is the more advanced one, you wont use it much. What it does is removes all places where all objects added to the group intersect, making it "one object". Displays all objects in group.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Three things.
First - the Merge is useful when you use transparent textures because then the various objects put together look like one if transparent.
Second thing is that i've once been looking through the Moray/Povray tutorials and found them rather good.
Third there are things i've found useful in moray, and here's the list: super Qs, beziers, and good textures. Super Qs are everything between a sphere and a square, and between a double pyramid and double cone and more; Beziers are extremly powerful, you can create virtually anything if you master these. Textures are extremly important in Moray as they're one of the best textures in whole modelling world, i'd suggest you study these.

[ October 27, 2002, 22:46: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: using moray
 

I mostly use unions and differences depending on the need. Intersections and merges not so often as Taera mentioned.

In re: to textures, I think I spend hours sometimes just playing around with them. If you check out the TNG mod thread - you'll see all those darn little windows on the Galaxy class - ugh!

Re: using moray
 

Yes, textures are a pain in the @ss to master too. One thing you might want to study is bump maps, they are similary to textures but instead of being an image they are simply raised and lowered sections on a shape. I find them very usefull when doing hull armor.

Re: using moray
 

I have mastered textures in Moray to their best. I can create virtually any texture in Moray, and i can give any interested a comprehensive description of any of the things you can find there... well, almost. But i must say this - if you want your creations to be _GOOD_ do NOT use textures created in moray. What i suggest is take a day or two and go through search engines, searching for textures. Then take another day and work in some program with these textures (save as non-interlaced .gif, bmp or png) and include them to Moray. Play around with Normals and Finishes, and you've got a good texture. examples:
Organic Ship
Metallic Ship

EDIT: Hate tripod. these images will open in this window, so keep this in mind.
EDIT2: Hate tripod. use "copy link" and paste to address

[ October 28, 2002, 23:40: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: using moray
 

One thing I can say about textures that I wish somebody had told me when I first started using Moray is Material Proxies. It is these that decide the orientation and position of image maps and patterns when you apply them to meshes. These are invaluable. Your definitely going to want a tutorial on how to use these properly.

Re: using moray
 

good point. i dont rightly know what textures have the material proxies but sometimes these can be invaluable, but only sometimes. i only use them once for a while myself.

Re: using moray
 

If you use a lot of bitmap textures with specific features like lettering and windows - material proxies are super important - and so is using alt-T to select them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: using moray
 

i see. dont use these much, i make all my windows and letters by hand, look better then.

Re: using moray
 

A neat way of doing windows in moray (or POV-Ray), at least if you have the patience; is to make a slightly smaller copy of the model inside the original model with an opaque black texture, make holes in both the outer and inner model that are filled with a shape with a tinted glass material, then place a light source in the center of the model.

Re: using moray
 

I think you misunderstand - When I say bitmaps I'm usually referring to imagemaps...same thing you probably do. All my little windows and details are done by hand in photoshop for the imagemap and then added to the model.

Re: using moray
 

atrakius - exactly. if anyone here has my TechnoLogic racestyle take a look at the bigger ships - dreadnoughts, battleships, bases. Now you see all these small windows? each of them is a differenced square http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . realy, those models usualy have 500+ cutout objects. i dont use black textures though, they're too standard.

Re: using moray
 

Taera - Only the inner coppy of the model is black to block the light from the point source inside the object, with the cut outs matching the ones on the main model so it looks like lights are comming from inside the ship without messing up the texturing of the outer model.

Re: using moray
 

Also, another helpfull hint: You can put CGS's (mainly differences) inside of other Differences.

Re: using moray
 

Atrakius: never used a black inner copy.
ZA: correct, i often have an intersection in a difference in a difference in a difference in a difference in a merge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: using moray
 

Really? The most I have ever used is four differences inside eachother....

Re: using moray
 

Taera - it was idea I got from the Star Fleet Command 2 models - since POV considers models hollow unless you give them a material instead of texture, I tried using a glass for windows with a light point source in the middle of the model - except that the light inside lights up more than just the windows. Had to place a duplicate of the model at something like .999 scale that was just black to block the light from going where I didn't want it. It gives the model some neat lighting effects - like how the Enterprise has the light shining on its hull number - and can make some interesting effects by using odd colors. Pain and too time consuming - easier to just make a window object the same way and just put the light source in the object - haven't had it look as nice though. My biggest problem has been that I don't want to go back and redo all of the models I already made, leaving me three more partially completed shipsets without the lights before I get around to finishing the first one with them (first one will probably be the BFG Imperials, unless I get sidetracked by the Necrons)

Re: using moray
 

Taera, ZA, and Atraikius - Thanks for a fascinating discussion of the possibilities of Moray.

I was just going through the basic tutorial with the sphere, floor and basic marble texture Last night. I have to admit it all seems very complex to this newbie. How long have you all been working with Moray? I'm just trying to figure out how long it might take an artistically challenged person like me to create something that looks remotely like a ship (forget the windows!)... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: using moray
 

I really don't use Moray all that much, every time I try to learn how to use it better, I end up going back to POV-ray because its easier for me to do what I want. Only thing I really use Moray for anymore is making textures (then I still end up going back to POV-ray when I start working out texture maps that are made of other texture maps).

Re: using moray
 

thanks for all this discussion this is great for us moray newbies!

Re: using moray
 

Your welcome. i glad to be of any help to beginner artists, because i've seen far too many people saying "i cant draw a &#%$" only to create good races.

i have been using Moray for the past five years.
I have learned to create good ships during the second year, but this is only because i didnt have almost any information sources and didnt think to look into the tutorials.

Atraikius: are you familiar with the option known as "Interior" for textures? it can create some interesting things.
I also use duplicated with different textures than the top ones to make windows have "glass".
I can drop you a mail with two variations of windows on ships, or you can go to http://universalshipyards.tripod.com and look at TechnoLogic and Taera racestyles.

[ October 31, 2002, 20:33: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: using moray
 

Only a little familiar with interior - mostly have used it on glass objects and for smoke.

Re: using moray
 

Taera, After looking at the Bezier patch tutorial Last night, I can see what you mean about their usefulness. They seem extremely versatile.

I am learning more about how the parts of the program work, but putting it all together will be difficult. Would you be willing to send me an .mdl file of one of your ships? Looking at a completed model would be extremely useful in terms of understanding how to use merges, differences, patches, all together.

PS Those Taera ships look great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif The detail is amazing - they must have taken a long time to make.

Re: using moray
 

Atraikius: Try playing around with interiors, give the interior a color (media -> emmision color. other colors help too). add a density to the media, make the texture itself semi-transparent and render. Then use 'hollow' (the checkbox) objects and see what it does.

Cronon: The Taera racestyle took about four months to do, but back then i was not very skilled. TechnoLogic was done in less than two months but before that it took a month to figure out the overall style. As for files, i have no problems. i wont give out my latest projects but i would gladly share any .mdl file you'd like to see from the Taera and TechnoLogic. Also be sure to download the taera, there are about 20 extra ships down there. some are realy nice, like the Massive Troop and warstation and whatever.

Re: using moray
 

Taera, I did download the Taera set - you're right, there is a lot of good extra stuff there. I would love to see the .mdl for the Taera destroyer. Would you sent it to me at chronon@mindspring.com? Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: using moray
 

in your mail.