Retrofit Order revocation
 

Assume a PBW simultaneous game.

In turn 2500.0, a retofit order is given to retrofit a number of ships.

In turn 2500.1, some of the ships are completely retrofited, and some are not. The unretrofitted ships have "craters" where the new component are to be inserted.

Are there ways to abort the retrofit order? If so, what are they?

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I am not mistaken no you cannot abort a refit, once you tell it which design to and pay the money it's done with. Nothing you can do but wait for it to be done then.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Hmmm....

Are the resources paid upfront? I always assumed you pay as you go.

Just a thought, but I wonder if the refit order can be broken by giving an order to the ship to move away from the planet?

[ November 01, 2002, 19:37: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

In a simultaneous move game, you can clear the ship's orders before the end of the turn on which you ordered the retrofit, and it will cancle said retrofit. But once a ship has been retrofit (ie: the turn is processed), you cannot cancel it.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Actually Tbontob what you are describing is not a retrofit being canceled. From your description, all your ships were completely retrofitted. The thing is after being retrofitted the new components have to be repaired. That's the "craters" you are seeing. Whether you can repair them all in the same turn they were retrofitted depends on how many components were replaced, and how many facilities or ships with space yards and repair bays in that sector.

Your retrofit can be cancelled for lack of resources, or if the new design is more than 150% of the old design. But you will get a message in the log telling you if the retrofits were succesful or failed for each retrofit.

Geoschmo

[ November 01, 2002, 19:49: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But let me see if I got this straight.

Taking an absurd scenario... the major refitting 100 Baseships at a planet which has only 1 shipyard. No choice but to watch 10+ years slip by, as the refit grindingly proceeds with the refit of one starship after another?

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

No choice but to watch 10+ years slip by, as the refit grindingly proceeds with the refit of one starship after another?"

Assuming you have the cash, all the refits are done on the *first turn*. What you're left with then is a bunch of damaged baseships of the new class.

Phoenix-D

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Geo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Again, lets see if I got it right...

1) Payment is made upfront for all the refits at the turn of 2500.0 to 2500.1
2) All ships then have "craters" where the new components are to be inserted. These "craters" signify components that need to be repaired.
3) In any turn (edit: including the turn from 2500.0 to 2500.1), the number of components that actully replace these "craters" depends upon the number of component repair facilities available.

[ November 01, 2002, 20:03: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can build a bunch of space yards with 3 retrofit comps each in them. Each of those will retorfit a lot of comps. I have had big games where I park 4 or 5 of these over my an important planet and it can repair a considerable sized fleet in one turn.

Geoschmo

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Thanks guys!

This is an obscure aspect of the game.

I had no idea that the "repair facilities" played a role in retrofitting.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

One Last question...

The number of "component repair facilities" available in a sector depends upon many factors such as the number of shipyards, the type of shipyards, the level of ship yards and the "repair rate" of the race.

Is there a easy way to determine number of component repair facilities actually available at a location.

If not an easy way, then is there a hard way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ November 01, 2002, 20:26: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

"If not an easy way, then is there a hard way."

Add the "repair" ability of every single ship, base, and planetary ship yard present. Multiply that by the repair rate in percent, i.e. 100% = 1, 80% = .8, 120% = 1.2, and so on.

Phoenix-D

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanx Phoenix-D http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, you need the shipyard component or facility to start the retrofit. But repair bays repair faster than shipyards do.

I sometimes retrofit a fleet that has several repair ships by sending a ship yard ship, starting the retrofit, then sending the spaceyard away to do the same thing elsewhere or do something else.

Now you do know how repair is done, right? Depending on the repair priorities set in Empire options, the most damaged ship is selected. Components are repaired in the order selected. For that ship only, until all it's repairs are complete Then the repair bay moves on to the next ship, repairing it completely. Having more than one repair bay for your moderately sized fleet of light cruiser or larger sized ships will save you much heartache.

[ November 03, 2002, 12:29: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Thanx Arkcon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was more or less aware of of what you said.

But, your putting it in such bold terms, ensures that I will remember it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

One more thing I think is worth mentioning is that you may not wait till all your 'craters' are repaired before retrofiting to another design. I mean, for example you retrofit 2 big ships. One is fully refitted the next turn and another is not. It still has some 'craters'. You may give this ship retrofit orders without waiting for all the components to be repaired. This will not reduce the cost but only time in case you have researched some new techs.
Sorry if this is off topic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not off topic at all. In fact, that is actually a useful strategy some people use called retro-series building. You make several steps of ship designs, using the 150% max difference in cost between designs to make each step as cheap as possible, while still being retrofitable to the next in the line. You can shave a few turns off of the build queue usage for a ship, so you can essentially get more ships built in the same amount of time. This does require that you have a lot of excess resource production available to pay for the retrofits though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

eg: Design X is the ship you want to build. To simplify the math, it costs 15000 minerals and 0 orgs and rads (max dif in cost is calculated from total resources). You want a 3 step retroseries. So, you need 4 designs. Call the 3 intermediate designs Design X A thru C.

X A costs 6667 / 1.5 = 4445
X B costs 10000 / 1.5 = 6667
X C costs 15000 / 1.5 = 10000
X D costs 15000

Build an X A, retrofit to X B and so on til you get to X. With a 3000 rate SY, design X takes 5 turns to build, whereas design X A only takes 2 turns to build. Make sure to round all costs up, to make sure that you don't get off by 1 resource. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Never mind, my math was all wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ November 05, 2002, 11:40: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Bing!!!!<============lightbulb!

What you guys seem to imply is that I can give all the instructions needed to retrofit a ship in one turn.

Using Fyron's example...

In year 2500.0, I give a series of upgrade orders for the following.

X A costs 6667 / 1.5 = 4445
X B costs 10000 / 1.5 = 6667
X C costs 15000 / 1.5 = 10000
X D costs 15000

I can then forget about it and then four turns later, I have a design X ship. True/Not true?

Up till now, I have been retrofitting the ship each turn.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Phoenix-D
"give repair ability to every single"
Do you mean mod a facilty to have that ability?
Gives me an idea, (witch I'm sure is an old one), Create a "Engineering Section" that is: 1/4 size repair bay at say 1/4 the repair rate and 1/3 the cost. It would have the Ship Yard ability but would require self imposed control to only use it for retrofitting. This would be useful to simulate having a Federation Chief Engineer on board.

Pablo,
Not waiting till all craters are gone is a great idea. Thanks

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

I think Phoenix-D was saying to total the repair ability amount of all components and facilities in the sector, not to add the ability to all components and facilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

tbontob, your idea can work in non-simultaneous games. Retrofits are done immediately (not the repairs, though), so you can retrofit through a progression of several designs in one turn. In simultaneous, though, any (new) order on the Scrap/Analyze/Retrofit window cancels all previous orders (including other Scrap/Analyze/Retrofit orders). You have to wait until next turn to issue the next retrofit order.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Gryphin, you you wouldn't need any self imposed control to limit it's use to only retrofits. You simply give it the construction ability, but with a zero value. That way it can't build anything. But anything with the construction ability can trigger a retrofit. Then you just need repair bays to do the repairs.

Geoschmo

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Gryphin: Uh, I didn't say that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

"Add the "repair" ability of every single ship, base, and planetary ship yard present. Multiply that by the repair rate in percent, i.e. 100% = 1, 80% = .8, 120% = 1.2, and so on."

"add" as in addition. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That's a way to determine how many components you can repair in a given sector per turn.

Phoenix-D

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

Ah, thanks for the clarification and the informaiton.
So to mod a "Scotty" component you would give it a Ship Yard ability with Zero build and a repair bay with limited build, (perhaps 1 per turn). This would allow a ship to retro fit at the front lines.
Edit:
I wonder how to mod the Scottish accent.

[ November 05, 2002, 21:53: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gryph, you ever played Devnullmod? It has something very much like this: An engineering section which grants limited construction /repair (I think), extra combat speed and an auxiliary control.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Write the description in a thick Scottish accent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

I usually build a 'Logistics Fleet' with a couple of Space Yard Ships, at least 2 (usually more) Repair Ships and a whole bunch of Tankers. Farm out some or most of the Tankers to the active fleets, the rest of the LF tracks in behind the main force (usually the other side of a warp point) and provides rear-area repair/refit facilities.

Forex, if I'm taking on a Home Planet in Proportions, I'll start off with an anti-ship fleet and eliminate the defence force before entering the planet square. Then I convert to one with a LOT of point defence in order to take out the fighters based on the planet, finally convert to a huge number of CSM and lay siege, bombarding the place until I can make a landing to capture it. All without ever having to return to base with the combat force.

Steve.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

dogscoff ,
I have not tried the Devnul Mod. Hm, guess I should. Can I use TDM with it? I'm thinking not due to the various mods.

Re: Retrofit Order revocation
 

You can't use the TDM mod very effectively with Devnullmod unless you tweak the research & ship design parts of the various AIs, but I've a feeling someone may have done this work for you already.

Also, I believe Devnullmod comes ready-supplied with some AIs by Rollo, who is a TDM-certified AI modder anyway.

I'm pretty sure that's all true, anyway. Either ask Rollo or take a look through the Devnullmod readme...