Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

I'm about to start a PBW game after a little break (Last one was 1.49), and I can't seem to find any other postings specifically listing current problems.

Does anybody have a list of the known bugs in the current patch? You can discuss them here, or link me to old threads if you wish, but let's see if we can get a comprehensive list of the current bugs. Thanks!

I'll start: I understand that the Temporal racial tech is unbalanced, because Temporal Distortion Beams do 4x the damage to EVERY component, not just 4x the damage to sheilds.

Also: we are using the DevNull mod, and if you know of any bugs/quirks/issues with this mod, those would be appreciated as well. Thanks!

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Here's a bug, it's not a big deal to most people.
In a game you cannot send a ship to cords. 0,0. The ship will clear it's orders and not move.
Nothing major but still...

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

There is the Temporal Bug, the Drone Bug, and a couple of others.

The Temporal bug allows Temporal weapons to do 4x damage to both shields and ship. Big time bug.

The Drone bug allow a single drone to take out an entire mine field.

There are others, but these are the two that I am most aware of.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

"The Drone bug allow a single drone to take out an entire mine field"

Wasn't this a bug that was fixed in 1.78?

Ah, here we go..

"Version 1.78:
1. Fixed - Mine damage was not accumulating against Fighters or Drones moving
through minefields.
2. Added - More Empire options for showing letter identifiers for facilities on
planets. "

Phoenix-D

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Launching Drones in combat appears to be bugged as well, from what I can tell. Any drone carriers in your fleet will drop all of their drones in the first combat turn, regardless of the actual number of drone bays on the ship. Additionally, Drone Launching in the game turn is similarly bugged. It apparently counts the launching of drones by counting the number of different types of drones launched, rather than the number of each drone that is launched. This means that if you have just one Drone Launcher component on a ship, you can launch any number of drone type A that you have, as well as any number of drones or type B, C, and D.

Maybe I should make a new thread about this problem, as it doesn't seem to be pinging anybody's radar... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

As far as I know, the drone bug is still there. The patch fixed mine damage on fighters and drones, but did not fix the drone issue for PBW games. I could be wrong though.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

"The patch fixed mine damage on fighters and drones, but did not fix the drone issue for PBW game"

The mine damage thing WAS the drone bug.

Phoenix-D

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suspect the problem is that so few people actually use drones that nobody else has noticed the bug.

The drones vs. mines bug was noticed quite a while ago, but this launch capacity bug was only reported relatively recently. (I forget whether Hotfoot was the first person to mention it.)

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It seems odd to me that it's managed to go this long without being detected though. When I ran across it, I was certain that it had to have been reported before, but I searched as hard as I could and found nothing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Just out of curiousity, are you able to reproduce this bug? I just want to make sure I'm not going crazy and that the problem actually exists.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The person whose thread I had originally posted about I think was touching on this bug, but didn't have it very well defined or isolated, IIRC.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Here is the list of fixed bugs up to now.

Version 1.82:
1. Changed - Ships in combat will now follow their fleet's strategy regardless
of whether they are in a combat group or not.
2. Fixed - Computer Players which had a "Computer Player Bonus" set above
None were not using all of their bonus funds.
3. Fixed - The largest ship in a sector was not always being drawn on top
in the system display.
4. Fixed - Planets in combat would not fire all of their weapons (sometimes).
5. Fixed - Planets in combat would not fire enough seekers against a target
to guarantee its destruction (sometimes).
6. Fixed - Improved the Transport minister a little.
7. Added - The Log Window will now return you to the item you had selected the
Last time you were in the window.
8. Fixed - Ships with a Tractor Beam would not fire weapons located after
the tractor beam in their design.

Version 1.81:
1. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will work on all target types,
again.
2. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will fail against a ship with
a Master Computer (regardless if that component is damaged or
not). It does not matter if there is a Bridge on the ship.
3. Fixed - AI will no longer launch "Anti-Planet" Drones in combat.
4. Added - Option to strategems to control how many drones are launched
per target in combat.
5. Changed - You can now give drones orders to Attack warp points. This
is essentially the same as telling them to warp through
and attack anything on the other side. Any survivors can then
be given new orders.

Version 1.80:
1. Fixed - Integer Overflow when a unit with no shields was hit by normal
weapons.
2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships
regardless of the target type.
3. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will fail against a ship with
a Master Computer (regardless if that component is damaged or
not).
4. Fixed - You can now give resource gifts in excess of 200,000.
5. Added - "x10000" and "x100000" to the Select Package window for resources.
6. Fixed - Fighters were unable to "Fire On And Destroy" ships.
7. Fixed - Organic Armor was pre-regenerating itself before damage occurred
in combat.


Version 1.79:
1. Fixed - "X Damage to Shields" damage types were not working correctly.
2. Fixed - Shield Depeleters will now work properly against units.
3. Fixed - The result of a Communication interception intelligence project
will be displayed with arrows in the log window.
4. Fixed - Ships would clear their order if trying to move to sector 0,0.
5. Fixed - Ships with regnerating armor will regnerate all of their armor
at the end of combat.
6. Fixed - During a Deconstruct & Analyze, you would sometimes receive duplicate
techs if a component and the vehicle size were new to you.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's all well and good, but does it fix the fact that any number of drones of the same type can be launched in one turn, only counting for one overall drone being launched, as it seems to be now?

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does this mean that when I set my ships to break formation they *won't* follow their own strategies? If that is the case then why in Hell was that change made. This seems to completely nullify combined strategy fleets (no more short range tanks soaking up damage while max-rangers rain death from behind). Unless it actually means something completely different, and I hope it does.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

2. Fixed - Computer Players which had a "Computer Player Bonus" set above
None were not using all of their bonus funds.

Will this make the AI harder to handle in a normal game of 1.78 without mods?

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

"Will this make the AI harder to handle in a normal game of 1.78 without mods?"

Yep. The AI will now have more resources to use; previously it would ONLY use the extra research points and intel points.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sweetness. Thanks for the answer.
Now that will make the TDM races even MORE powerful. Ohhh, I can't wait till the patch is out...

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Thanks, Mephisto. I assume these intermediate patches are only released to the beta testing team? Any estimate about when a full patch will be released to the public?

In other words, should we go ahead and start our PBW game, or should we wait a day or two if they are going to release a patch soon?

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

'Any estimate about when a full patch will be released to the public?"

The patches are gennerally released when the beta testers don't find any big problems with the latest patch (code is fun, you change one thing and two unrelated things break)

Might as well start your game, it's not difficult to switch to the next patch once it's released.

Phoenix-D

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

1.) People, keep cool. The fix doesn't change anything except fixing the bug that ships in a fleet with "Don't get hurt" orders and "Don't break formation=true" were not retreating but instead fall back to their ship strategy (i.e. in most cases they did attack).

2.) I don't know when the patch will be released but certainly not in the next days as Aaron is away from home AFAIK.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I could not reproduce this bug with the current beta Version but I just might do something wrong. If you can recreate the problem, prepare everything so you only need one more click to show it in a game, save it and sent it to Aaron.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Right then. I'll prepare a save game which allows for easy access. In the meantime, here are some screen captures I made to help illustrate part of the problem I was having.

Starbase with 25 drone launchers.

First Round of Combat

With the new "X Drones per enemy ship" order, the problem in Stragetic Combat might not occur as often with the beta patch, but it might still probably release more Drones than it should be able to.

I'll have the save game ready by tonight to send to Aaron though.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Okay, setting it up so that it only takes one more click to show the problem is rather impossible, but I did set it up so that it only takes one use of the "Launch Units" function to show the bug. After some further testing, it does seem to have limits, and not be infinite as I previously had thought.

For those who wish to try and recreate the bug, here are the steps I took to replicate it:

Build a drone carrier that can carry more drones than it should be able to launch in a combat turn (use small drones, for the sake of simplicity). I used a 16,900 kt baseship with 5 drone launchers (that's 169 small drones, 5 per combat turn, 20 per game turn). Then I mass-produced drones until it was full up.

After that, go to launch units. Select the "All" option, and launch the drones. On the first click, 20 drones are launched. However, the counter goes to 19/20 instead of 0/20 as it should. You can launch another 380 drones (if you have the space and they are all of the same type, of course).

In combat (you can use the simulator for this directly after you have made the designs), it will launch 25 drones per combat turn. Again, using the "launch all" feature launches 5 drones per launch, and you get 5 launches per turn.

End result: Drone Launchers drop (n*4)^2 drones per game turn, and n^2 drones per combat turn, where n is the number of drone launchers you have fitted on your ship. Thus, to help make checking numbers easier:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Number of Drone Launchers : Launches Per Game Turn: Launches Per Combat Turn

1:16:1
2:64:4
3:144:9
4:256:16
5:400:25
6:576:36
7:784:49
8:1024:64
9:1296:81
10:1600:100

And for planets...

1000:16,000,000:1,000,000</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you get anything like these numbers when launching drones, please let me know. I have tried this in modded games and in a fresh install/update to 1.78 patch games, and gotten the same results repeatedly.

Oh, and if someone feels bored enough, how about making a test to try out the maximum planetary drone launch in the game and combat turns. I'm thinking a Sphere World + Advanced Storage Techniques + Highest Level Cargo Facilities for the entire planet might do the trick. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

+++Edit+++
For those who want to see what I see, here is a link to a zipped savegame file which can be easily tested for the said problems using the above method. It is a fresh install of SEIV Gold, v 1.78, no mods whatsoever.

Here is the file
+++End Edit+++

+++slightly off end bit+++
Additionally, Drones can't fleet, which I find to be quite annoying myself, but I can't really say that's a bug, really. It can be modified without a hardcode change, correct?

[ November 07, 2002, 20:45: Message edited by: Hotfoot ]

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

You actually don't have to go through all this. You can duplicate the problem in the simulator, so all you have to do is start a game on high tech and make a couple designs.

I haven't tested it yet on the latest beta patch, but I shuld be able to tonight. Since I have replicated it in the sim on 1.78, I will just do the same thing with 1.82 and see if it's still happening.

Geoschmo

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you do if you want to test how many it launches per game turn, as simulator is combat turn only. I did want to be absolutely certain, after all.

In any event, with that saved game file, all of the work's been done already, so it's a moot point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excellent. I sent an email to Aaron as well, so hopefully this will all be resolved soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Still, it would be kind of cool to launch 16 million drones from a sphereworld. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No. There's only a setting for whether bases can join fleets.

If you need to give a group of drones orders, you just shift-click them.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point couldn't satellites and fighters join fleets, or am I just totally out of it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, my idea was to use drones as flying fuel tanks, actually. But since we're on the subject, wouldn't that have the same problem as ships using shift-select as far as combat goes, meaning that they'll all arrive one right after the other, rather than as one group?

[ November 08, 2002, 00:19: Message edited by: Hotfoot ]

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are correct, In non-Gold (SE IV 1.49) Sats & Fighters can join a fleet.

Read the Topic: POLL->things we'd really like in Next Patch (Platinum II) - In Geo's testing, it looks like they do fight together.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm...so then it's been a hard code change since then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, very well. Still, it is rather annoying not being able to fleet them, and not having their design names displayed in the game map.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Hotfoot, in the latest beta patch the drone launching bug is fixed. The ships are limited by strategy to launching a maximum of 20 drones per enemy ship, however with a ship with less than 20 drone launchers I get one launched per launcher per combat turn until the 20 are launched and then no more. This is how it is designed and it is working correctly.

I noticed something else kind of interesting. It might explain why this bug wasn't noticed earlier. In 1.78 it doesn't really launch all the drones in cargo, but it is launching more than it should. The rate doesn't seem to be linear. With one launcher I get one drone per combat turn, which is correct. With 5 launchers I get 15 per turn, which is 3 per turn per launcher. With 25 it's launching all the drones in cargo, but I think that with 25 launchers it's just that the launchers can launch more than the ship can hold.

Of course none of that will matter when the next patch goes public cause it will be working correctly then.

Geoschmo

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Good enought,
but when does the path goes public ?
I would prefer start my PBW game whis this patch on, mostly for the TimeBurst bug.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay, so it doesn't launch an obscene number right off the bat, but rather launches the proper number? Does it behave as it should outside of combat as well? (so we don't have the 16 million drone planets)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, with 5 launchers, it seemed to be launching 25, so long as they were all of the same drone type. I made a small correction in a previous post. Note the progression is exponential. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

With 25 launchers, you can launch 625 drones per combat turn, and 10,000 per game turn in Version 1.78.

+++Edit+++
Ah-ha! Wait, I got it now. I was losing track of the numbers past the first launch because of the way it showed it to me. It's actually n+(n-1), where n is the number of launchers on board. That's where the number was being decrimented. So at first, it's 5 drones, then 4 more, then 3 more, then 2 more, then 1 more, then 0 more until the next turn.

5+4+3+2+1=16

For some reason, I was thinking that 5 out the first time translated into 5 out every time. Okay, problem solved. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
+++End Edit+++

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good, glad to hear it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 08, 2002, 01:32: Message edited by: Hotfoot ]

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

I have reported that drone launching bug a long time ago. It goes like this: the number of drones launched is the combined sum (if that is the correct term) of the number of drone launchers.

1 drone launcher: 1 drone launched per turn
2 drone launcher: 3 drone launched per turn
3 drone launcher: 6 drone launched per turn
4 drone launcher: 10 drone launched per turn
5 drone launcher: 15 drone launched per turn
...and so on and so forth...

Hope that helps,
Rollo

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Found Bug in the way the AI uses the restrictions. 1.78 had new restrictions like two per vehicle up to 10 per vehicle. I used these on certain engine components. I restricted a certain engine to only two, three, four, etc per vehicle. Works OK with the human design, but AI ignors the restriction.

If the engine component has a restriction of two per vehicle, but the desired engines are 6, the AI will build two engines, build the main component, and then build extra engines, violating the restriction rule.

I have also just experinced the problem of the ship clearing orders at coordinate 0,0 and it has killed the game for me. The only warp point out of the system is at 0,0 and I can not warp. Sent this bug to MM, before I read it was already fixed in Version 1.79

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

I found two other bugs with v1.78

The first one is rather obvious if you actually try to add a fighter GROUP to a fleet. I got sick of shift-clicking 20 fighter Groups per turn so I added them all to a fleet and that fleet's supplies became ENDLESS.

The second one is something nobody but me would ever notice. It's rather simple, if you have a friend who plays SE get them to play you in a 2 player game or run 2 empires yourself. Have two planets run emergency build for 10 turns and on turn 10 trade the two planets. Both space yards will return to normal build rate with no slow build time.

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I cannot confirm the fighter thing. Are you sure about that? Any more specifics?

I can confirm the second one however. That could be a pretty significant exploit in a multiplayer game with partners. You should send that to Malfador right away.

Geoschmo

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

that second one has always been there.... It is just that most players realise it is a bug or perhaps feature enhancement... but do not do it as it would be frowned upon in pbw games

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

Yep I can confirm the first one (about fighters) but it seems that if you leave your fighter fleet (I had ~100) for a while it's supplies turn from ENDLESS to normal, i.e. fighters use supplies but the amount in the beginning is 'so' huge that it seems endless but later on you realize that it actually gradually decreases... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

[Message restored as the bug has been fixed.]

Found a nice feature recently:

Any project which needs 10 turns (emergency build rate) for complete can be set to emergency build with avoidance of the slow rate. When it is completed, just press the clear queue button and the slow build rate will be reset. The emergency build button is inverted after that but it does not matter, you can press clear queue for a 2nd time to clear this out.

[ January 27, 2003, 19:09: Message edited by: Mephisto ]

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

[Message restored as bug has been fixed]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can confirm this. It is a huge bug. It is very hard to tell if someone is using it and it gives big advantage.

[ January 27, 2003, 19:10: Message edited by: Mephisto ]

Re: Bugs in Gold v1.78?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shif-clicking drones works fine. The drones arrive on the same time. They might need to have the same movement points but I haven't tested it.