Some new ability i just thought of....
 

In SMAC there were weapons that were considered "atrocities" if they were used, for example nerve gas and planet busters (nukes).

Now what i was thinking of is a component (and facility) ability named "Atroctiy" with the first value indicating how much your relations drop if you use that component.

For example the plague bomb can be considered an atrocity, give it value 10, and for every plague bomb you drop, you're relations drop by 10 with all of the other races you know.
In fact, all pop killing weapons can be considered atrocities, making it harder to just glass all of the planets, unless you're out for war with everyone.

This way a balance could also be found between weapons that should be way more powerful then they are now(CSM is NUKE dammit!), and weapons that are more powerfull then they should be.
CSM could really be devastating, but their atrocity rating may not make it worth it to use them.

[ November 16, 2002, 11:34: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

i had this idea, but i see no use for this in the game.

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

I see a use; commit one atrocity and I have good reason to gather a war against you.

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

Who ISN'T a madman when you dedicate yourself to conquering the universe and subjugating everybody?

This abilities maybe useful when playing the AIs, but against human? Emm... who will care? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

"This way a balance could also be found between weapons that should be way more powerful then they are now(CSM is NUKE dammit!), and weapons that are more powerfull then they should be.
CSM could really be devastating, but their atrocity rating may not make it worth it to use them."

When you can throw around antimatter warheads, nukes kind of pale in comparison. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Especially in space, where you don't get the benifit of a shock wave.

Phoenix-D

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

The chief problem (besides it requiring a hardcode change to implement) is that each race should have its own definition of what constitutes an atrocity.

In the Alien Crossfire expansion for SMAC, you can get away with the "minor" atrocities, as long as you don't use them against your own species.

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

Yeah,
To me the atrocities are plaguing a planet, blowing up planets (that are occupied, but not the unocupied ones, try implementing anger modifiers for that!) and blowing up stars. Everything else to me is pretty well conventional warfare.

jimbob

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

So you don't think anyone would be appalled by someone bombing billions of unarmed civillians to dust? Only if they use plague bombs, or split the planet in half? Seems to me the amount of mass civillian death is the main thing that will make civillians outraged...

PvK

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not if your citizens don't know.

In germany, most germans had no idea of the mass concentration camps; even the ones that lived just nearby.

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Assuming, of course, you're talking about Peaceful populations. A Bloodthirsty race may look favorably on what others would consider atrocities. 'Course, a Neutral race probably wouldn't care anyway....

Quikngruvn

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">HEY NOW!

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe a Propaganda Facility with a negative Atrocity value would simulate this?

Oh, hi all, BTW. ^.^ I've been reading this board for ages and love SEIV(g). =) Bought the game quite a while ago and have been nothing but pleased with it.

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

"So you don't think anyone would be appalled by someone bombing billions of unarmed civillians to dust? Only if they use plague bombs, or split the planet in half? Seems to me the amount of mass civillian death is the main thing that will make civillians outraged..."

For certain races, sure. As capnq pointed out, they should have different definitions. It somehow doesn't make sense for the Rage Collective to look down on bLasting other race's civilians..

Phoenix-D

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd say the SP side needs the most improving, especially diplomacy.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The point would that citrizens from other empires would know, including their government, making them not like you so much.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes, culture modifiers could be taken into account of how the race reacts to your "atrocities", since now they could also be a good thing, improving your relation with another madman's epmire...

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To a Cryslonite, killing a billion organic-based lifeforms is just exterminating vermin, no worse than fumigating a house to get rid of roaches. The Sergetti and Xi'Chung have similar attitudes.

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

Agreed, there should be different definitions for different races, in a perfect game. The more options the better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was just trying to say that I'd think the _default_ for outrages would be based on quantities of civillians killed, rather than means of extermination.

And of course, it would have to be visible to the people getting mad, and this could apply both to diplomatic anger, and to population anger (or one but not the other, in some cases).

PvK

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

Different populations could get angry at all kinds of things: Destroying uninhabitted planets could be considered an environmental atrocity by some people, as could the use of terraforming facilities.

Also, the issue of how much a given population knows about current affairs in the galaxy raises huge questions about the whole "fog or war" thing in SEIV. If a neighbouring empire has a major planet glassed, don't you think news would find its way to me sooner or later? Refugees, traders, reporters, travellers etc would be bound to spread information regardless of political boundaries, but unless you have a partnership treaty or a ship in the vicinity there is no way to know.

Of course the reason for this is that it would be hideously complicated to code, because then you get into issues of how long it takes gossip to travel from system to system, whether or not news would filter out from events with no survivors, whether or not news would travel across war-zones or not, whether or not novae should be visible years later by normal-light travel etc etc etc etc...

BTW, welcome Alari. Lookin' kinda furry over there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Some new ability i just thought of....
 

My Ideas:
1) It would only work with AI's
2) It should be affected by Glassing planets accidentaly or otherwise
3) It should be affected by racial traits. Peaceful / Honerable should recive negative happyness.
4) The populace should not automaticaly find out. It is hard to hide the destruction of a city on your own planet even if done with conventional wepaons, (Siria about 15 years agao hearded most of its Kurdish pop into a city and destroyed it).
I think it would be harder to find out about a planet that was glassed 5 sytems away.
5) There might be a delay built in depending on how often and how far away it occurs

Most important: I would much rather time be spent on other aspects of the game.

Second: I find the timing of this thread interesting. Over the weekend I deliberatly glassed several AI planets. Till now I was personaly set against it but it truly came down to Us vs Them. I was not about to Them glass any more of my planets.

It was the United Flora and you might say I used a Herbicide and a Weedwacker. I went at those planets like a gardner after dandelions.