Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

For simulating shapes and surfaces of ships in mods:
Make all "internal" components have the cargo ability (amount-zero)
Make all "surface" components, such as weapons, engines, and fighter launch bays NOT have the cargo ability. (Fighter storage would have to be separated from fighter launch components)

Add a cargo % restriction to every hull size.
The actual value would depend on the shape and size of the hull.

For a simple shape like a sphere, the cargo % would be high. For a complex shaped ship with wings, skinny sections, and open areas, the requirement would be much lower.

Relating this to the TNG-mod:

Think of various ships in the TNG universe.
A romulan warbird is very open, with the wings and such. The only blocky area is the bridge-section. Such a ship would have a cargo requirement of somthing like 5%

A borg Sphere, on the other hand, is mostly internal space. In fact the sphere shape has the least surface area for the most volume.
It would have a cargo requirement of something more like 60% Fusion cubes would be even worse.

The fancy shapes and high surface area of the standard ships allows them plenty of room for weapons and other such things that need to poke through the hull.
The borg cubes, on the other hand, have a lot of internal volume that can't be used for weapons or other surface objects!

[ December 11, 2002, 04:45: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

SJ, you are simply a genius at modding SE4! I hope that talent pays off in the real world http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

To add to your idea, though, how about giving all "surface" components the Armor ability so they get hit first, thus protecting the inner components and possibly balancing the two ship styles?

Then you could also say that bigger ships a greater proportion of internals than smaller ships do, and really get fancy! Maybe you could make the different hull types separate tech areas, as well - after all, it is a different kind of engineering to hold together a spindly Excelsior class cruiser or X-wing fighter than is is to build a sturdy Borg cube or Death Star!

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

You know, I just might have to steal that idea for Adamant mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

An interesting idea you have there, SG.
Would love to see it implemented.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

This is similiar to how ships were built in SE:III.

One nitpick is that the main parts of a weapon may be in the hull and not directly mounted on it. One might also argue that a Borg Cube is so large, there is still more surface area than any other ship.

It's still a cool idea though.

[ November 28, 2002, 01:17: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, except then it would have the same logical error that the "hit first" armor suffers from in SE4 - it ALL has to be destroyed before ANY non-hit-first components are. So there is no way to penetrate armor - it all has to be completely vaporized first. Which, is entirely not how actual armor works. Which is why I modded armor the way I did in Proportions mod.

PvK

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

There needs to be some way to balance out the disadvantage of having a sphere or cube shaped ship with large internal volume. These ships are penalized by requiring to have more cargo %, so you are at a disadvantage because of the heavier restrictions you have on ship design and the fewer weapons that can be included. So you wouldn't want to play a race with such a ship set.

To balance things out, how about giving these ships more structure strength to resist damage, for example?

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly: the 30% surface area on a Cube of 2000kt is still bigger than the 80% surface area on a 600kt spindly battleship.

Kamog:
For a trek mod, the disadvantage of borg shape restrictions is compensated for by the vastly larger size of the ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 28, 2002, 02:21: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Give the surface components much higher hitpoints, so they're hit first more ofter--a la Proportions' armor.

I think this is an awesome idea, though. I did like the SE3 armor/outer hull/inner hull design setup; once a layer was pierced, the next layer could (but not necessarily would) be hit. This is the closest we can get with the SE4 model.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Ships with large internal volumes and relatively small suface area may have fewer places to mount weapons. But due to their large size they are more then likely able to mount guns that would shred the smaller ships, even if the smaller ships have more weapons.

Plus there's the fact that you have all that internal space. You could have armored belts on the inside. Not sure we could represent that except maybe have some armor with cargo to represent 'internal' and some armor without cargo to represent 'external'. Of course the downside is you can't have any fancy armor on the inside of your ship. But you also have plenty of space for supplies, cargo, magazine capacity (if some mods use it), and of course SHIELDS.

So a Borg cube can't mount many individual weapons. But each of those weapons it does mount could crack a small starship in half. Plus it could have nearly impenatrable shields and several internal armored belts to make it extremely tough.

[ November 30, 2002, 14:30: Message edited by: Escaflowne ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Don't Borg ships lack shields? I never understood why, surely they've assimilated someone who knows how they work, they seem to be a common enough technology... Maybe the shields are incompatible with some other aspect of their technology... kind of like how the Antarans didn't use shields in MOO2 because they had Damper Fields which reduced all damage by 75%...

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

The Borg do have shields...
The're just very specific, and they just don't plan ahead, getting surprised a lot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The fmog

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

I believe that the Borg were never really thought out very well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Consider the Borg assimilation tech. With this tech the Borg don't have to directly conquor Earth - just seed Federation space with Borg drones and have them assimulate everyone they meet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
Very soon you would have a Borg Federation!
I.E. They made the Borg too powerful to stop if they were real. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Another way to do &lt and &gt is to use & lt ("less than") and & gt ("greater than"), without the spaces.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, they'd get to fire a few shots, but they wouldn't do any noticable damage.

The borg cube only needed three shield-sapper shots to disable them, and then start cutting bits out like a roast.

The Borg are extremely powerful, but they have no real direction, and are very narrow-minded. Tactical superiority, but no strategy to speak of.
They do not spend resources on "insurance", or anything without immediate value.

IOW, they are perfect for a monster race, with powerful and dangerous single ships, yet nearly harmless in the big picture.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

I don't think the Enterprise had a chance in hell to defeat the Borg. If they weren't after Picard, they could have easily blown the Enterprise apart before it could even get off a shot.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Neither was the time traveling stuff with First Contact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif If the Borg can travel back in time to change history whenever they want, why didn't they do it earlier? Apparently, the Enterprise has exactly the same time traveling capability, but of course the Federation is bound by the prime directive of temporal non-interference (which they disobey every other episode). By the way, the stuff from the other movies and the original series about traveling back in time by using the sling shot effect, flying around the sun really fast, never did make much sense...

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

"By the way, the stuff from the other movies and the original series about traveling back in time by using the sling shot effect, flying around the sun really fast, never did make much sense..."

If you go REALLY fast in real space, you should theoreticlly end up going back in time. The apparent time slows as you speed up and approach the speed of light, so "logiclly" after a point it should start running backwards.

The problem with that is in order to do that, you need to generate MORE than infinite force. Slingshoting around a sun just ain't going to cut it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That and your apparent time would reverse, not anything else's. The result would likely be a ship trapped in an infinite loop..go forward one second, reverse the next. You can't go anywhere, the time is too small to react..stasis.

Phoenix-D

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

"If the Borg can travel back in time to change history whenever they want, why didn't they do it earlier?"

Just have them go back in time to change when they started going back in time... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Maybe this should have gone in the Post-of-Many-Names...

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

I've got an obscure boardgame in my collection called Time Agent. The object of the game is to travel in time and change history so that your empire dominates the galaxy, then prevent anyone else from changing things back, by going back and preventing the invention of time travel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the limit of this theoretical effect, is that everyone else would see the fast ship as if it were moving almost as fast as the speed of light. The fast ship would in theory seem like it was travelling faster than the speed of light, as if there were no speed limit, but even with infinite speed, the time to reach the destination would be at least zero, but never less than zero. T = D/V. As long as D(istance) and V(elocity) are positive, change in T(ime) is positive. The only way to get negative T(ime) is to go away from your destination, which just means you're going the wrong direction in space, not in time.

So as far as I can tell, the "Star Trek slingshot effect" (like many of the rest of the explanations of Star Trek effects) is entirely a result of writers with much greater immagination than their knowledge of math and physics.

PvK

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

V= D/T, mixed with relativity, eh?

Unfortunately, at relativistic speeds, time is distorted as well as space.

As you go faster and faster, time slows down for the other object. If faster than light speeds would make the time negative, then the ship would see the universe getting younger, and the universe would see the ship getting younger. Once the ship decelerates, the twin paradox effect should make the end result be that the ship would end up younger, and the rest of the universe be slightly older than when the whole thing started.

[ December 04, 2002, 03:03: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

i've read previous Posts about borg's shields, and there's a realy simple solution - Regen Shield per Hit.
Give Bord some weak shields, which though would regenerate pretty much when the armor is hit. think CA.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

If a CA-style armor had 500 damage-to-shield points, and max shields were 300, would 450 points of damage regenerate 300 shields and do 150 damage, or just regenerate 300 shields? Or would it be 450?

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

I'd test it if I were you.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

It dosen't. Your max shields is the max.
If your generators are destroyed, you get max of zero.

If you are hit by PPB when you have normal shields, they charge up to full, and then stay.

The solution is to give the Crystalline shields exactly as much (phased) shield generation as crystalline effect.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">D=V/T? No. D = V x T.

If D = V / T, the longer you travelled, the less far you'd go.

Quote:

Unfortunately, at relativistic speeds, time is distorted as well as space. As you go faster and faster, time slows down for the other object.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe in the egocentric universe imagined by Star Trek authors. In the 20th Century Earth physics I studied, I don't recall any such thing. A fast moving object is not going to have temporal side-effects from the frame of reference of the rest of the universe. It's own perception of time is what changes, if you believe the theory.

Quote:

If faster than light speeds would make the time negative, then the ship would see the universe getting younger, and the universe would see the ship getting younger.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, I assume you're talking to Spock here, and not to Einstein. Quantum theory, unless I'm wrong, maintains that the speed of light will not be exceeded. It's just that "time slows down" from the perspective of the traveller. From no perspective, however, does time stop or reverse.

Quote:

Once the ship decelerates, the twin paradox effect should make the end result be that the ship would end up younger, and the rest of the universe be slightly older than when the whole thing started.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seems to me that yes, the universe would be slightly older, as usual, and the very fast ship would be younger, but only younger than it would have been if it were standing still, from the stationary frame of reference. The ship will still be older than it was before it started moving.

For example, if we hook up a drive capable of what would be ten times the speed of light to a Twinkie, and send it five light-years away and back (ten light-years total distance), we'll see it re-appear in ten years time, and history will not be changed, but the Twinkie will only have aged one year. No humpback whales will be saved.

PvK

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe it has something to do with activating the warp field in a strong gravitational well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Typo. My bad.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe in the egocentric universe imagined by Star Trek authors. In the 20th Century Earth physics I studied, I don't recall any such thing. A fast moving object is not going to have temporal side-effects from the frame of reference of the rest of the universe. It's own perception of time is what changes, if you believe the theory.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Time *appears* to slow down for the other object.
If a ship moves past a planet, who's to say the planet isn't moving past the ship instead. The time dilation works both ways. That's all I'm saying

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, I assume you're talking to Spock here, and not to Einstein. Quantum theory, unless I'm wrong, maintains that the speed of light will not be exceeded. It's just that "time slows down" from the perspective of the traveller. From no perspective, however, does time stop or reverse.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We were already talking about FTL. The ability to magically accelerate past the speed of light was a given in this problem. Given that assumption, the rest is reasonable, eh?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seems to me that yes, the universe would be slightly older, as usual, and the very fast ship would be younger, but only younger than it would have been if it were standing still, from the stationary frame of reference. The ship will still be older than it was before it started moving.

For example, if we hook up a drive capable of what would be ten times the speed of light to a Twinkie, and send it five light-years away and back (ten light-years total distance), we'll see it re-appear in ten years time, and history will not be changed, but the Twinkie will only have aged one year. No humpback whales will be saved.
PvK[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree that the ship will appear in ten year's time. I also agree the whales will not be saved. I do NOT agree that the twinkie will be roughly one year older.
If the twinkie were travelling at a non-relativistic speed, it would age normally. If it were travelling at a very high sublight speed it would age less. If it were travelling at the speed of light, it would not age at all.
So, faster must make for younger.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In other words, not at all. Twinkies are forever. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In other words, not at all. Twinkies are forever. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Really? I wouldn't know. Twinkies in my house are lucky to Last long enough to get out of the wrapper. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif MMmmmmm, Twinkies.....

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

SJ:
You are probably more than aware of this, but most of the science fiction explanations for FTL actually attempt to by-pass the vessel actually going faster than light. For example in ST they wave their hands about, spinning a yarn about some sort of warp bubble - the bubble goes faster than light because it's a tachyon (or equiv.) bubble that must go faster than light. The bubble and everything within it moves FTL relative to the rest of the universe, but the stuff inside the bubble remains moving at sub-light speeds relative to other stuff within the bubble - ie normal matter is never moving FTL. SW employs a similar sort of side-step on the issue of FTL with hyper-space being non-normal space with a unique set of light speed restrictions.

Therefore, within the majority of Sci-Fi genres, the actual (normal matter) vessels never go up to nor do they ever pass the speed of light themselves. As a result, time neither slows nor reverses for them (relative to objects at a hypothetical rest, whatever that's supposed to be).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now what's all this about Humpback whales being saved by Twinkies? Is there some sort of nutritional requirement on the part of FTL whales that I wasn't aware of? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 04, 2002, 23:11: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Is this the famous Twinky defense? Or Offense?

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Name := Tachyon Twinkie Torpedo
Description := Twinkie packaged in a tachyon bubble that allows it to travel faster than the speed of light. This tends to confuse and distract enemies, when they even notice, which isn't very often. Some get hungry, some get sick, and some enter into distracting discussions about the shelf life or the temporal side effects the super-fast twinkie may have.
Pic Num := 665
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 1
Cost Minerals := 10
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 1000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 1
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 9010
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 665
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Twinkie Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Weapon Damage Type := Disrupt Reload Time
Weapon Reload Rate := 50
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 665
Weapon Modifier := -90
Weapon Sound := ttt.wav
Weapon Family := 665

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Right, each has a different frame of reference, reciprocal, in some sense. What the limits of the relationship are though is the question.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Sure, because even the assumption isn't well defined, and there isn't really any complete understanding of what occurs. Only theory, at best.

Quote:

I agree that the ship will appear in ten year's time. I also agree the whales will not be saved. I do NOT agree that the twinkie will be roughly one year older. If the twinkie were travelling at a non-relativistic speed, it would age normally. If it were travelling at a very high sublight speed it would age less. If it were travelling at the speed of light, it would not age at all. So, faster must make for younger.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's where we disagree. However, I would say that it depends on both the theoretical physics postulated, and also the means by which you achieve FTL travel. I was assuming quantum mechanics and no Star Trek physics, and also that the Twinkie would be accelerated conventionally, not by some futuristic device that achieves motion without an accelerating force. Given my assumptions, I believe I'm right, that if you give something enough acceleration so that (if we ignore quantum effects for a moment), the Twinkie would be accelerated to ten times the speed of light, the effect from the Twinkie's frame of reference is exactly as if there were no limit of the speed of light, except that in addition to moving past the universe very quickly, the universe actually seems to be aging faster. That is, not only does the Twinkie not go back in time, it actually goes forward in time, like everything does. It arrives later than it would expect from it's own clock readings - IT is what is younger, not the universe.

That is, not only is Star Trek making up devices, and physics, it is loosely basing them on theory and getting it backwards.

I agree though that if you're talking about a "warp drive", then you can make up any side-effects you like.

PvK

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree: Twinkies Last forever if a human doesn't eat it. Try unwrapping a Twinkie and leaving it beside the sidewalk. Look at it two months later and it will still be there, looking exactly how you left it.

[ December 05, 2002, 02:52: Message edited by: Kamog ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This discussion is TOO scientific for me.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

I like twinkies, really.... But what does not have to do with this Surface Mod?!?!?!?

Can we talk about the mod, please?

KirbyEF

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Well, okay,

So the larger the object, hypothetically the more twinkies it should be able to contain. However the actual surface area of the object can have a huge effect on the internal volume (with the maximal volume to surface ratio being appreciated by a sphere). As such, Borg ships should, on average, be able to carry more twinkies per kT of hull plating than can the Enterprise. Star Destroyers should have a reasonable ratio, whereas mon Calamari cruisers should have a slight edge over them. X-wing fighters and Tie-fighters are not so good for Twinkie transport, but of the two, I'd give the prize to the X-wing (removal of the R2 helps in this regard). In the end, you can count on the pilot eating the lions' share of the twinkies anyway, unless it's a Wookie pilot - then you're guaranteed that there will be none delivered to the destination.

-jimbob

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Theoretically, injecting twinkies directly into the warp core should allow a ship to surpass light speed, given that twinkies in their matter state contain more energy than any energy known to man/woman/person/humanoid/sentient lifeform.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

If Twinkies are fired at a wookie's surface, it will tend to make a sticky mess, but I'm not sure if troops are affected by the energy dampener effect, so there might be no way to mod it in the current game.

PvK

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

The future looks bright for the Hostess company! The galaxy will soon be powered by Twinkie energy! Now is our chance to buy some Hostess stock and become billionaires!

And I'm going to the store right now to buy a crate full of Twinkies, I'm sure they're about to skyrocket in value! Yes! We're going to be rich...

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

We are All going to become Twinkie Billionaires! Oh, Yeah! I've got Highhhhhhhhhhh hope, yes I've got Highhhhhhhhhhh hope. I've got Twinkie in the sky hopes. Sorry, just got a little carried away! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Alright. Take the Twinkies over to the cantina to scare away the health inspectors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

This thread is for Physics, Geometry and Topology!

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have got to disagree here (I know I'm jumping in a little late but what the heck). If equiping a twinkie with a drive system capable of 10x the speed of light it would travel 10 light years in only one year of our subjective time.

This is assuming that said drive system is capable of instantaneous acceleration and deceleration and so negating the turnaround time at the half-way point.

The subjective effects of the twinkie are the true unknown. If they are the same as light speed then no time will have passed (subjectively) yet 10 lightyears will have been crossed and one year would have passed in the world.

This is the most likely explanation since we have detected forms of radiation that move faster than the speed of light (for the life of me I can't remember what it's called, though I do have it written down somewhere) and they don't show any evidence of time warping properties.

As a side note I recently heard that there is strong evidence to support the fact that C is not as constant as we once thought. Apparently the speed of light has been slowing down slightly over the Last several billion years.

Interesting huh?

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

Sorry guys, but I had to do this.

web page link

If you would, please fill in the gaps.

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

You shoulda spelled it "light speed" instead of "Light speed".

The Wiki is case sensitive, and the odd capital makes it hard to link to.

Other than that, the only problem is the galaxy squares are 10 not 1 LY across.

[ December 06, 2002, 20:28: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for fixing that SJ. It had been like that for sooooooo long. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif How is it done? That's not easy to find in the Wiki help files.

When I wrote light speed, I did it buy clicking on a ?Light speed. I was new at Wiki then.

Can you fix Maintenance? That one just everywhere. I'm willing to search and fix the links to it -- it's a good way to browse Wiki.

If I had a girlfriend, she'd probably stab me in the back of the head right now.

It was just Last night I re-read the printed manual and found out about the 10 light year. I left it because I thought it could have been a typo. I don't open many warp points.

*[EDIT]*

Ohhh. Please fix [systemvsector bonus] as well. I didn't even know that entry was there, I was going to write one.

[ December 06, 2002, 21:45: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

You know I may sound like a hostess pie here but I need to point this out. Are we ASSUMING that we can get said twinkie to near light speed or beyond without the acceleration making the twinkie into a fruit pie on the ships bulkhead? If you are speaking about a gradual acceleration to light speed (or some point there of) than we need to consider what is happening to the twinkie and the outside world during this acceleration period. Then we can consider what happens when reaching the optimal cruising speed.

Yes they [Princeton and a school in Italy] have managed to accelerat “energy packets” to what is effectively beyond light speed. Follow the link, you will need to search around some but only because there is so much info. You still can't move something solid that fast.

http://pupgg.princeton.edu/www/jh/re...e_theory.htmlx

Re: Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where did you read this? I only ask because a "C slowing down" theory has been put forward as an argument for creationism. I don't know if that was something made up for that purpose or something they had borrowed from real science. I don't suppose I'd ever find the webpage again, but I read a really funny argument about this theory between a creationist and someone who actually understood science.