Emergency Build problem
 

I don't know if this is a bug or something I just don't undertand. At one of my bases, I set it to emergency build to get a ship done. A few turns later, when I go to turn it off, the whole buttone gets grayed out, and my ships get built at a ridiculously low rate (i.e., takes 20 turns, when it takes 4 turns everywhere else). Is this some kind of penalty for doing an emergency build, and does it go away?

A side note, my empire is now a big, bloated bankrupt bureaucracy. I can fix the problem by scrapping several of my good ships, but I don't want to do too much of that. I'm mining three different asteroid sectors with satellites like crazy, but I'm still short on minerals. I'd like to wipe out my enemies right now, but I can't afford it! Not really a question, I can fix this, but I suppose resource shortfalls must have been a problem for others just starting the game like myself.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

For every turn you spend on Emergency Build (150% rate) you must spend one turn on Slow Build (25% rate)
Once the slow-build time is up, your SY returns to normal.

As for resource shortages, you can mothball some ships and bases that you don't need, and replace some research facilities with miners.

For longer-term economy building, you can place Value improvement facilities on your planets (planet utilization tech 4,5 and 6)
Value improvement fully stacks, so two facilities increase value at twice the rate as one.

Also long-term, is atmosphere converters. (planet utilization 7,8 and 9)
When placed on domed worlds, they will change the atmosphere to remove the dome and give you 5x more facility slots.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

Try to remember, with the default of 25% maintenance ...

With every ship you build, think ..."In four turns, I will automatically pay for another one."

Look around, do you really need that many ships?

If so, you need more colonies. Hey, you're a Galactic Despot (click here) -- why do the others still have planets?

Also, emergency build inceases build rate, and also increase resource consumption. When you shut it off and go slow, you will consume less resources. You could also put a queue on hold, and save all resources.

[ December 10, 2002, 17:29: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

The maintenance is a killer.
How many points did you put into maintenance reduction?
If you cranked your maint. redux. to +20% (the maximum effective amount), you will pay only 1/5th of the normal maintenance costs (5% of build price per turn)

If you actually took a negative on maintenance redux, Doom on You.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">20 % maintenance reduction decreases maintenance cost by 80%????

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">20 % maintenance reduction decreases maintenance cost by 80%????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It sure does:

25%-20% = 5% / 25% = 20%

A savings of 80% per ship. Nice isn't it?

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

In the latest P&N PBW Versions, I have fixed it, so that a reduction of +20% leaves you with 80% of normal maintenance.

In unmodded SE4, however, maintenance reduction is the uber-trait.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

I'm assuming maintenance reduction is one of those traits at the start of the game. If so, I'm at the default for my race. Next game, I'll know to increase it. I still can easily fix this, thanks for telling me about those techs that improve production. I'm out-teching everyone in this game, so I'll have my resource problem fixed shortly.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

If you are ahead on tech, you can probably also boost your resource output significantly by using monoliths.

On any planet where the lower two resource values combined are at least half of the majority resource, replace production facilities one by one with monoliths.

Build a resource converter on one planet in your empire, to convert the stuff to whatever you need.

You'll end up making at least as many minerals as you currently do, but you will also be making just as many organics and rads.

Convert the extra organics and rads to minerals by using the converter, and you suddenly have more than twice as much money rolling around your pockets.
Which equates to twice as many ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

If you put a space yard on emergency build, will it also repair 150% faster?
(I know I saw this answered somewhere but just can't fing the thread)
If you are building something (ships, units or facilities), will it slow down the repair rate?
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But you need a converter in more than one system right?
I mean taht the converter is a system facility, not empire facility. It only converts resources made in the system it resides in.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

One is enough for the whole empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then the description in the build screen is wrong, there it says that it will convert resources made in the system.
I've built 10 of them in a game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, repair remains constant, as long as your space yard exists, even if the planet is rioting. I think it may need at least 1M population, though.

PvK

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

For maintance:
a ship costs 1000 minirals a turns:
With 100% maintance you pay 1000
But with 120 % maintance you only pay 200??????

You sure SJ???

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

sparhawk, Maybe I'm missing something. But +20% isn't +120%.

Is it?

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are mixing the numbers up. The base maintenance in the stock game isn't 100%, it's 25%. So to tweak your example a ship that costs 4000 to build will cost 1000 per turn of maintenace. If you spend the racial points to get your maint to 120%, what this actually does is subtract 20 from the 25% and leave you with 5% maintenance on your ships. At 5% maintenance your ships that cost 4000 to build will cost 200 per turn to maintain.

If the base maintenance rate in the stock game were 100% like you said in your example, then getting 120% to maint in game setup would mean 100-20=80% and your ships would cost 800 to maintain. Actually I think that is part of what SJ did in his mod to make the maint reduction more realistic.

Geoschmo

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

Ruatha,
that may probably be true (in 1 system) in case you don't have a space port http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, lack of space ports have no effect at all on the operation of resource converters. The only effect would be the resources of that system would not be available to the empire. The resource converter draws from the empire whether or not a space port is available. So actually the resource converter in a system with no space port could convert all the resources of the empire except those in the same system. As if that makes any sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[ December 11, 2002, 14:12: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

Now most of you know it's not automatic, you have to select the planet, click the little ore truck on the button bar, and use the dialog to select from what resource to what resource, etc.

But remember, you can only convert from you have in storage into what you can store. Ran into that little problem in my neutral challange game. I only had two systems, every planet was maxed out value with monoliths ... but I couldn't convert into all the minerals I needed -- I didn't surrender enough space on resource storage.

Long story short, look at the empire screen critically and see where everything is going, and what you have, and try to predict what ships you still need to build. Turn your excess organincs and rads into (minerals-30%0). Is that enough minerals? And do you have mineral resource storage to hold that?

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

Ok, I get the picture: so what you are saying Geoschmo: always take 120% in maintance reduction!!! (if in a unmodded game), because it saved you 80% of the maintance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But is this also true for other race traits, like research, trade, miniral extraction etc.
Because then this will open a totally new window for me: I really thought that upgrading from 100 to 120 % maintance reduction would give you 4/5 maintance instead of 5/5.

But WHY did they do that.
It would be more logical to do it the following way: maintance(25% of value ship) * (100 % / race trait maintance reduction).

Sparhawk

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

True, it probably would make more sense that way. But the maintenance reduction at game startup comes "off the top", subtracted directly from the base maint. The other things in the game that affect maint, components, facilities, maint reduction on hulls, all get multiplied so the reduction is more in line with what you would expect.

120% is quite valuable, but it is is also expensive. Some people prefer using those points in other areas. Depends on your play style I guess.

It used to be you could get your maint down to zero by maxing the characteristic maint redux and taking the engineer trait. Those were the days. One of the patches fixed it so the lowest you can get your maint is 5% now. If you spend the points to get it lower than that they are wasted cause your maint is hardcoded to the minimum.

Geoschmo

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

So having 120% reduction and having the crystalline restructuring plant, doens't lower it below 5% maintance cost???

And what about miniral extraction/research, is that still research/extraction * race trait???

Thanks Sparhawk

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

No, Crystalline multiplies, so you will get 15% off of whatever you pay when the ship is outside the system.
IE 20% redux + 15% crystal = 17%

If you choose engineers or merchants, or one of the other cultures that reduce maintenance in your race setup, it adds/subtracts from the base along with the maintenance redux.

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

The crystal restructuring planet can lower the maint of individual ships in a system below 5%. But it's multiplied, so it can't get to zero. It's just the empire base maint that is hardcoded at 5%.

If I understand the second question, then yes. Your empire rate of resource production is multiplied by the rate of production of the facility(which increases with tech level) multiplied by the resource value of the planet multiplied by population factors(happiness, number).

Geoschmo

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ummm, what? Is this something in your mod? I don't know all the details of that. This is not how it works in the stock game.

An empire with 120% maint would have a 5% empire base maint. So they would pay 5% maint everywhere else but would pay 4.25% maint for any ships in a system with a crystal restructuring facility.

But to get crystalline race and 120% maint reduction would be quite expensive. You'd need to be playing 5000 racial points, or take some pretty hefty cuts in other areas.

Geoschmo

[ December 11, 2002, 15:18: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then the description in the build screen is wrong, there it says that it will convert resources made in the system.
I've built 10 of them in a game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually it doesn't. It does have the "(only 1 facility per system effective)" line in the ability description, which is kind of wierd I will admit. But it doesn't say anything anywhere about converting resources from that system only.

Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">O, sorry. My mistake! (early dementia)

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ummm, what? Is this something in your mod? I don't know all the details of that. This is not how it works in the stock game.

An empire with 120% maint would have a 5% empire base maint. So they would pay 5% maint everywhere else but would pay 4.25% maint for any ships in a system with a crystal restructuring facility.

But to get crystalline race and 120% maint reduction would be quite expensive. You'd need to be playing 5000 racial points, or take some pretty hefty cuts in other areas.

Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">17 Percent of normal! (where normal is 25%) Sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

4.25 * 4 = 17

[ December 11, 2002, 17:11: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

SJ, as usual you blew my mind with that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I see what you mean now. 17% of 25% is 4.25%, so we had the same answer. What I don't see is how you got to 17% from 20% + 15%. But that's ok, maybe I don't want to know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then the description in the build screen is wrong, there it says that it will convert resources made in the system.
I've built 10 of them in a game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually it doesn't. It does have the "(only 1 facility per system effective)" line in the ability description, which is kind of wierd I will admit. But it doesn't say anything anywhere about converting resources from that system only.

Geoschmo

Re: Emergency Build problem
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The same way SE4 does, Geo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Its just like how half of 50% resource rate = 0% http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif