Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Why isn't there a tech tree anywhere with descriptions (and icons) of the technologies in this game?

For a new player (such as myself) the sheer number of technologies is astounding and very demanding.

Space Empires IV has the small reserach/technology display but it provides no description of the technologies nor does it outline the advanced Versions of resreahced techs.

Has anyone found any such resource? I have viewed the text document someone on this forum put together, but it's only the technology tiles, no description!

I have also downloaded and ran a java-based viewer which unfortunately wouldn't run on my rig.

I'd greatly appreciate any help or assistance!

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

There is a lot of tech tree stuff around, I just can't remember where.

However, you might just want to play the game and discover things for yourself. It makes it more interesting and makes the choices harder!

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Heh. If my mod ever gets finished it'll have a sumptious manual (web-based probably) explaining everything. But then it's not scheduled for completion until 2009... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

If you start a game with all the technology available (part of the Player Settings tab) you can click Help (somehwere in the top-left set of buttons) in-game and have a look. It's a bit of a spoiler and there aren't any long descriptions of what everything does and how. Some would say that's the fun of the game - there's always something you don't know/fully understand about the game.

As with all games, it's part of the learning curve to learn what's good to research and what isn't.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

I'm very spartan and hate "guessing" at things, it drives my wife crazy, always planning trips ahead of time, reviewing logistics, tuning up the car before a road trip and typically reading the manual before plugging in my new DVD player/Television/whatever.

I guess I am SOL, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ December 12, 2002, 20:11: Message edited by: Echo Mirage ]

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Many people feel it's part of the fun to guess at what components are good for each tactic.

A suggestion -- research what's cheapest, it will be done quicker and you'll learn what you like and what you don't.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

I was considering putting together a "Space Empires TRO" (technical readout) at one point.

Basiclly the idea is you click whatever you want to research, and it tells you what you get, what it does, and what you can get from that. One page would be a very large tech tree diagram.

Would there be any interest in that? I let the idea die because I wasn't sure anyone wanted it, and it would be a fair amount of work. Especially since I was going to provide "fluff" for each entry- my idea on how it works. Totally useless but mildly entertaining.

Phoenix-D

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah man, ah'right then have it your way ...

Phoenix your idea has promise! Perhaps the marketability and audience for this game would expand if the game mechanics were more visible?

[ December 12, 2002, 20:25: Message edited by: Echo Mirage ]

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

The file TechArea.txt in the Data folder has a bare-bones description of what each technology does. Components.txt and Facility.txt include the text descriptions and the tech area requirements for each item.

I don't know whether anybody has done a viewer that combines the raw info in those three files into one readable format.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

I made HTML files once with the info from the Facilty.txt Components.txt and inserted the pictures to all.
It was quite easy, I used a macro that replace the picture number with a html tag for the picture.
I then asked if it was of interest to anyone here at the forum and got a massive NO!
As the info could be found in the txt files and the SE4 Modder was better anyway.
So now I use the SE4 Modder too to watch the tech tree and facilitys and components.

You can find a link to the SE4 modder in the SE4 FAQ (se link in my signature) at the Interesting reading paragraph.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

I like Phoenix's idea too. I'm almost done with my first full game, and know at least part of the tech tree reasonably well now, but a reference would be nice. Whenever I go back to other games I haven't played in awhile, I always find myself having to learn the tech tree all over again.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah man, ah'right then have it your way ...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's just an opinion of mine -- but the default tech tree isn't really complicated, there are very few cross techs.

Kinda don't know why its so secretive -- anyone who's played the game enough can figure it out -- why not let someone who wants to know have the information.

Whenever someone wants to mod a complicated tech tree, they're disappointed by the fact that all their planning evaporates once someone views the tech tree.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Thanks very much fellas!

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Phoenix, sounds like an excellent idea. I'm assuming you're basing it on the default tech tree, and not reading TechAreas.txt and Components.txt (not exactly a minor task).

Are you thinking along the lines of the old Civ2 "What is your research goal? Then you should research X, Y, or Z at this time" sort of thing?

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

"Phoenix, sounds like an excellent idea. I'm assuming you're basing it on the default tech tree, and not reading TechAreas.txt and Components.txt (not exactly a minor task)."

Actually an impossible task for what I'm planning.

"Are you thinking along the lines of the old Civ2 "What is your research goal? Then you should research X, Y, or Z at this time" sort of thing?"

More or less. The big list will hopefully let you follow the tech tree, while another will have a simple list of every topic sorted alphabeticly. You click on a topic and get something like so:

-Topic name-
-Topic game effects0
-Topic fluff-
-topic tech requirements-
-topic tech available-

So, if you click on APB IX, it shows you something like:

-Anti-Proton Beam IX-
-SE4 stats-
-This weapon blah blah blah-
-Required: Energy-Stream Weapons 9-
-Allows: N/A-

Clicking on "Energy Stream Weapons" would show you a list of everything that tech area gives, and what IT requires, like so:

-Energy Stream Weapons-
-Base Cost: 5000-
-N/A-
-Required: Physics I
-Gives: Anti-Proton Beam I-XII

Phoenix-D

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

You can right-click on the tech areas in the research screen to read the description of each one.

If you start an SE4 game with starting tech set to "High," all techs that your empire can research will be known, so you can see pretty much everything from there, and also try out designs in the simulator, and so on.

PvK

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

The tech tree viewer might be what you're thinking about:
Tech tree viewer thread
or more info in this thread tech tree page

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not all that secretive; it just isn't casually accessible.

Turning on "Players can see entire tech tree" (or however it's worded) when you're setting up the game seems to be sufficient for most people who are interested in it.

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Wee, they went and changed Dreamweaver on me..now I have to spend time in the demo (30 day limit) figuring out the changes before I can start to design.

Phoenix-D

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Well... I think full tech tree would be not interesting. I, for example, have never played with full tech start (I'm not modding yet and will try not to for as long as I will be able to) and wouldn't want to know everything in advance. The pleasure is the RESEARCH and what your scientists will come up with but not reading some manuals and knowing that 'if I read this chapter I will know this tech'. I am against the full tech tree. Another example: I've never researched a tech for destroying a star or something in that range (nevertheless I'm playing SE4 for a year or so) because my games (single player or pbw) just used to end faster. Now I'm playing DNM and see that it takes quite a while to get all the AIs under your control. And I have more time to research VERY big techs. And maybe I will have time to build e.g. a starbase or smth like that. I really wouldn't want to know by heart (or at least until I will start modding) all the techs. I want to have the pleasure of <u>discovery</u> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've always felt that way, and I've said so before. But this does seem to come up a lot. Apparanty, MOO 2 would give a complete tech tree, and people are just accustomed to it. For a more complete synopsis, might I suggest the Encyclopedia Malfadorica entry: Click here

By now, I pretty much know the standard tech tree, and I had fun acquiring that knowledge. But maybe some people don't like that I have the advantage. It's really everyone's call.

I never used to tech tree, it seemed like cheating, and since I was playing the AI the only one I was cheating was myself.

[ December 13, 2002, 21:30: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

I think Arkcon has hit on the main distinction between the two camps. If playing the AI, it can be more fun for many players to discover the tech tree only by research during play. With agreeable players of the same experience level, you can do the same thing. However, for competitive multi-player games, particularly by experienced players, it makes sense to assume that studying the tech tree is fair game.

PvK

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Echo, I assume that was my program...can you tell what error msg it showed?

Re: Tech Tree with descriptions?
 

Another set of examples is the Civilization II & III, & Alpha Centauri/Alien Crossfire. Those games came with posters laying out the complete tech tree.

Once you have enough experience with the game to know what you want to research, those charts are a useful reference.

[ December 15, 2002, 20:33: Message edited by: capnq ]