Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Several times I've encountered the situation where an empire at war with me had developed the disposition of "Brotherly", but no matter what I did, they would reject my request to end the war. Are there any tricks to overcome this?

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

See Signature http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL, agreed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Dobian, if you just let them be for afew turns. ie; don't run into them, don't send them any Messages. Being that they are feeling "Brotherly" towards you that 'might' work.

All that being said (if it does not work); see mottlee Signature! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

I just wanted to get their trade back so I could build up more. It doesn't matter now in my current game, as I am now the "evil empire", and everyone has declared war on me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See I told you so! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Dobian; That will happen as a hyper-expansionist! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

It's not uncommon to see the opposite, either: a long-time ally with a mood of Murderous towards you.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I get that one too. That one makes more sense, though, because I can understand an empire entering into an alliance with me out of necessity, even though they hate my guts.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

There is a setting that prevents them from accepting treaties for X turns after combat has occured.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it would be better if they wouldn't accept treaties for X turns after you initiated combat in their systems. They shouldn't hold it against you for defending your own systems, right?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Sure they should. They don't like it when their ships are destroyed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't like it when I lose ships attacking someone. Why should AIs be any different? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Signature? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

He was refering to trying to get AIs to sign treaties while at war. His sig says to just not worry about it and kill all of them.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Is there a formula where the AI player determines that you are an "evil empire"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

And if so, what is it, or where can it be found?

And here I thought the SE4 AI didn't cheat! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

It is in Settings.txt.

Look at the AI Bonus settings when starting a game. Those tell the AI to cheat and get normal resources, 2x, 3x or 5x resources (and research). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Mega-Evil Empire isn't a cheat; it's a straightforward formula that the AI uses to decide that an opponent has become dangerously powerful.

There are separate entries in Settings.txt for the threshholds that human or AI players trigger MEE at, as well as one to turn it off entirely.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

[quote]Originally posted by Dobian:

Quote:

They shouldn't hold it against you for defending your own systems, right?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All your system are belong to us. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously, the AI believes all systems adjacent to it's systems belong to it. I guess war would stop if there was one layer of asteroid sytems, black holes, and nebulas, but I'd doubt it.

Hmmm... must try that sometime.

[ January 01, 2003, 18:21: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The war might not stop but the attacks of the AI will! This is in my opinion a serious handicap of the AI. You can predict which systems will be attacked if you check for the ones that are claimed both by the AI and your empire. As far as I have seen it, the AI never attacked a system that has not be claimed by him. He will however send colony ships to all systems.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

A strategy that I often use is to colonize a system next to or even that has other AI colonies in it without claiming them. In fact I turn off claiming of systems at the start of a game and only claim systems manually.

You turn off the automatic claiming of systems in the empire options screen.

You can manually adjust which systems you have claimed in the boarders screen that shows you what systems other empires have claimed.

This non-claiming of systems seem to reduce the anger level of other empires.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Signature? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Kill Em All Let God Sort Em Out" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ones in Settings.txt that may be applicable are:
1) AI uses Mega Empire :=true
2) AI Mega Evil Empire Threshold score in thousands :=500
3) AI Human Mega Evil Empire Score Percent :=170
4) AI Computer Mega Evil Empire Score Percent :=250

These are my interpretations... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

1) The on/off switch
2) Threshold whether an empire is a Mega Evil Empire (MEE) or not. (i.e. over 500)
3) Adjusted threshold for a human MEE (i.e. over 850)
4) Adjusted threshold for a computer MEE (i.e. over 1250)

The question is what are the factors which determines 2 above? Like, could it be the number of planets/systems and if so what values are attached to each factor.

And if it is something like planets/systems, then it is a cheat where "only view own score" is operable, because the evidence seems to be that the AI empire knows the total planets/systems you have for it to plug into the formula and not just the planets/systems it has observed.

It would be much different (not a cheat) if it only plugged in the figures derived from it's actual observations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

tbontob the score percent of 3.) and 4.) is compared to the player with the second highest score not to the score of 2.).
And yes the computer always knows your score.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you Q. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

That makes a lot of sense. It is the difference between the first and second placed player that triggers MEE rather than an absolute amount. Otherwise, everyone would trigger the MEE at some point in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So, this is how I would think MEE operates. Experts please correct me if you think I am all wet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A) There is no possiblity of it operating until a player reaches 500 points.

B) Then (and in later turns) the score of the first placed player is compared to the adjusted score of the second placed player.

C) In a game with other humans the adjusted score of the second played human player would be = (Score of second place humam player) x 1.7

D) In a game with human opponents, "4) AI Computer Mega Evil Empire Score Percent :=250" does not come into play. It only comes into play when a person is playing a solo game against the computer.

Does anyone know what factors are used to determine the score and the values assigned to them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

EDIT Whoa...seems I am making this more complicated that I need to make it. It is the normally calculated scores which are probably used. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ January 02, 2003, 18:53: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

You have to have at least #2 points to be able to trigger MEE.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">C) If the player in first place is human, he will become MEE when his score is 170% of whoever is in second.

D) If the player in first place is an AI, it will become MEE when its score is 250% of whoever is in second place.

It does not matter in either case whether second place is human or AI. An empire can stop being MEE by falling below the threshholds again. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is known that ships are weighted disproportionately heavily in the scoring formula, and units aren't counted at all.

In theory, if the scoring formula is linear, one could use the numbers on (F9) Empires/Scores to derive the approximate formula, but I've never felt inspired to tackle the math.

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Thanks Capnq http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

That pretty much clears things up for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Empire disposition toward you during war
 

Haven't checked this thread in awhile. Having played my Last game where I've been the MEE for better than half the game, it's become obvious that once I reach that status, there is no no way the AI can make peace with me, even if their disposition is brotherly. I tested this out by keeping a couple of AI opponents brotherly for many, many turns, to see if they would offer a treaty, and they didn't. So of course I annihilated them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Anyway, the explanations in this thread seem consistent with what I've seen. Thanks for the info.