Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

What can ya say, looks like the verdict is in, Star Trek Nemisis is now an offical flop.

Word of mouth among the fans killed this movie. They cut too much out of it, killed Data, and tried to make it an action movie instead of a Star Trek movie.

This according to the news report I just watched about the Top scores and the Bottom feeders of the Box office this Last year.

I don't think it is a fair assesment of Nemisis, because it has been out for less than a month against LOTR TTT, Harry Potter II, and a few other heavy hitters.

(Oh ya, Catch me if you can was a perty good flick.)

Paramount dropped the ball releasing Nemisis in the same month as TTT. What a colosal FU.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

Yea i agree with you on the assessment atrocities. I saw nemesis and was actually pleased..it was decent and a lot better than Insurrection, but when you release it with LOTR:TTT it was bound to lose. I believe a non traditiional time like somewhere in march would have been better, of course I dont think there is going to be another star trek movie...this might be the end of the franchise...you cant really develop a star trek movie on DS9 or Voyager...
i felt like i did when i HAD to go see Star Wars Episode II: I knew it was going to be predictible but I had to see it

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

I thought Nemesis was pretty good. Certainly way better than Insurrection. Sure, it was a bit dark and had action-movie tendencies, but the space battle was outstanding and the story was pretty good compared to the other Star Trek movies. In my opinion, Nemesis is the third best Star Trek movie after Wrath of Khan and First Contact. I hope that this isn't the end of Star Trek movies. But I agree, it would be kind of tough to create a movie out of DS9 or Voyager because these series had definite conclusions at the end. I haven't been watching Enterprise so I don't know what's going on with that, but I'm not sure if people will be too excited if they made a movie out of that. Star Wars II was awesome. I have seen it 5 times so far. Two more years of waiting for episode III...

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

I don't think it will be the end of the Star Trek movies. Sure they can't make a movie out od DS9 or Voyager but I am sure they could come up with a new crew or something. I mean without a TV series to sort of set up the movie with what kind of people they are would be pretty hard to do. But it is possible. Just make it a 3 hour movie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

I think if we see a new ST movie it will probably be about the cast of Enterprise. Of course a lot depends on what kind of following the new series generates. If it peters out we may not see another ST movie for a while, if ever.

Geoschmo

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First contact was a good movie, but it hardly compares with The Undiscovered Country and the Voyage Home, which are both better than Wrath of Khan.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

DarkHorse's Movie Reviews: Star Trek Edition (TM)

Star Trek: The Special Effects Nightmare

Somewhere in here was a decent plot, lost in hours of meaningless fly-by sequences.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

Kicked @ss start to finish. The best villain ever in the ST universe. Best part; none of the characters were played for cheap laughs.

Star Trek III: The Search for Spock

Not too bad, but weak plot-wise as they were forced to write an entire movie to resurrect Nimoy's career after he decided he didn't want to be dead after all. At least they still didn't play any characters for cheap laughs, although Klingon Captain Ignatowski was stretching credibility somewhat.

Star Trek IV: The Beginning of the End

Horrible. Ridiculous. And to make matters worse, they resurrected the recurring thorn-in-the-side of Time-Travel (TM), the universal schtick of trying to make a movie interesting by introducing ludicrous plot devices that cause infinitely more problems than they solve. And here we first see our beloved characters played for cheap laughs. Unforgivable.

Star Trek V: Get Shatner Away From The Script!

Even worse than IV. What on Earth were they thinking!?!

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

A serviceable attempt to right the ship. Still playing characters for cheap laughs, but at least the overarching theme (cold war ends) was timely for once and fairly well done. Shakespeare spouting Klingons (how would they have even known about the Bard?) was again stretching credibility, but Captain Sulu to the rescue! That was a good touch, and fun to watch the Excelsior kick some butt. Extremely hokey ending, though.

Star Trek VII: Generations

Had it's moments, but this Nexus thing struck to much of Time-Travel (TM) hokiness. And Shatner...is still Shatner. The juxtaposition of Shatner and Picard was a little unnerving, at best; one guy who takes his role seriously, and one guy apparently unable to take anything seriously makes for some diluted chemistry. Ominous trend of playing Cmd Data for cheap laughs begins. How dare you screw with my favorite character!?!

Star Trek VIII: First Contact

Ugh, more Time-Travel (TM) hokiness. However, silly impossible plot devices aside, there was still some butt-kicking action here and there, and decent acting (for once) from the supporting cast. Still playing characters for cheap laughs, though. (EDIT: and Zephram Cochrane was from Alpha Centauri, not Earth; Paging Continuity Dept: Please come in, Continuity Dept)
And another thing... what's with this Borg Queen silliness? The coolest thing about the Borg, the thing that made them the second best Trek villain since Khan, was their utter alien-different-ness. They reeked of cool, just because they were here to kick your butt, then assimilate it, AND they were relentless, AND the best part: you couldn't just shoot there leader and declare victory like so many slovenly enemies out there. Now comes the movie, and voila, kill the Queen and they all die. Now they're just normal follow the leader villains. That kinda smacked of hokiness.

Star Trek IX: Insurrection

This was so dull I don't even remember enough about it to review it. I vaguely remember it sucking.

Star Trek X: Nemesis

Haven't seen it yet, may never due to the reviews.

Thanks for joining me for this review session. Hope you enjoyed it!

[ January 01, 2003, 18:08: Message edited by: DarkHorse ]

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

Man Darkhorse ...a bit mean there huh?
LOL

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm... T'Pol on the big screen... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm... T'Pol on the big screen... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I kinda like Hoshi, personally. T'Pol's boy-hair just doesn't do it for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wasn't really trying to be mean, but I gotta call's 'em as I see's 'em. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm still a Trek fan, I just wish they'd take themselves at least a little seriously, for a change. Enterprise seems to be doing pretty decent so far, I hope it doesn't devolve into a soap opera like some other series' have.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

Actually, reports from overseas for ST:X are doing very nicely. It flopped in the US sadly.

It could have done worse. Pinnochio (spelling?) flopped big time and only took 229K on it's opening weekend.

[ January 01, 2003, 19:44: Message edited by: Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine ]

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

I wouldn't count on a ST Movie based on Enterprise.
The Series was on Australian Prime Time TV for the first episode, then moved to late showing with no notice and dropped out after about 6 weeks.

Of course, Australian TV has no idea what they are doing. The Last X-Files series started running with 2 episodes on Saturday night, then stopped for 4 weeks only to return either Friday night or Saturday night at 11pm, which ever day they deciede at the time, with no warnings and no mention of the show in any TV Guide. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

And no with you guys mentioning that Farscape has been dropped, they have started showing that prime time, twice a week.

But shows like Judge Judy - they wouldn't forget to put that crap on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

Farscape is coming back starting next Friday to the Sci Fi channel. Or has that been changed again?

They keep doing stuff like this and I might actually go out on Friday nights! I'd still rather see Farscape.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

Farscape was renewed for one final season, but no more unless is significantly grows beyond the initial audience.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Star Trek has always played its characters for cheap laughs.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Second best of the bunch, because its funny, and good star trek at the same time.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a question for you. Why _wouldn't_ the Klingons know about Shakespeare?

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Quote:

Star Trek IV: The Beginning of the End Horrible. Ridiculous. And to make matters worse, they resurrected the recurring thorn-in-the-side of Time-Travel (TM), the universal schtick of trying to make a movie interesting by introducing ludicrous plot devices that cause infinitely more problems than they solve. And here we first see our beloved characters played for cheap laughs. Unforgivable.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Second best of the bunch, because its funny, and good star trek at the same time.

Quote:

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country A serviceable attempt to right the ship. Still playing characters for cheap laughs, but at least the overarching theme (cold war ends) was timely for once and fairly well done. Shakespeare spouting Klingons (how would they have even known about the Bard?) was again stretching credibility, but Captain Sulu to the rescue! That was a good touch, and fun to watch the Excelsior kick some butt. Extremely hokey ending, though.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a question for you. Why _wouldn't_ the Klingons know about Shakespeare?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have to politely disagree with you on this one.
You can have occasional elements of humor without sacrificing the depth of your characters, and I think the original series (TOS) did a good job of relating that. The humor was unforced, just good-natured cameraderie between the crew, whereas in some of the movies, it appeared [to me] that several of the characters were just two dimensional props that were merely along for the ride, and to provide the occasional cheap one-liner for meaningless laughs. You could say they were "Hollywood-ized", if you will.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just got annoyed with the Time-Travel (TM) stuff first, then Shatner's increasing buffoonery continued the slide. Different types of humor for different folks, I suppose.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, my thoughts on this would be:
1. They are from a different planet, therefore do not share the same cultural history and references (e.g. Shakespeare)
2. Their interaction with the Federation to that point in time to my knowledge was limited to episodes of occasional skirmishes to outright war, conditions that don't seem to lend themselves to a rich cultural exchange.
3. They had been portrayed (especially in TOS) as gruff and warlike, or at least aggressive, people, not really the kind that would take much of an interest in xenos literature.

Again, these are all my opinions, YMMV
(your mileage may vary)
Cheers,
DarkHorse

EDIT: typos

[ January 02, 2003, 04:35: Message edited by: DarkHorse ]

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

heres my picks for each series in order of preference.
Star Trek: TOS

ST2: Wrath of Khan - best of them all. it was like a long episode.

ST6: Undiscovered Country - enjoyed the action and basic plot. liked the references to the tv series (ex. refering to the enterprise as a garbage scow like they did on the episode with the tribbles). could have done without the Shakespeare Klingons though. a good attempt at tying loose ends btwn the series, books and comics. Plus it explains why the Federation and Klingon Empire are semi allies in TNG.

ST4: Voyage Home - despite the improbability of the whales being that important and the continuing use of time travel as a plot, i still think this was a good movie.

ST3: Search For Spock - genesis effect on spock was a bad idea but hey it brought him back. i like the stealing of the enterprise and the combat over the genesis planet(what little there was). i enjoy the techno redo of the startrek theme on the cd/tape.

ST: The Motion Picture - at the time i was just glad to see anything for startrek.

ST5: There was no such movie! It never existed.

Star Trek: TNG
ST8: First Contact - good plot (minus timetravel) and it had made a point like they tried to do with TOS.

STX: Nemesis - despite what everybody says this was a good movie. it tied up loose ends from the series (ex. troy and rykers wedding and ryker finally accepting a captains chair). i enjoyed the action sequences even if not in the style of star trek. they tried to do what they did with Undiscovered Country.

ST7: Generations - an attempt to hand the torch to the new series. i like Mcdowell he makes a good bad guy and evil good guy. plus they kill off shatner (not kirk but shatner), that makes it a good movie regardless of anything else.

ST9: Insurrection - i dont remember much of this one. maybe one day i will go back and watch my dvd.

next movie? i dunno but most likely not Enterprise as it is a current series and if it flops then they wont make a movie about it anyway.

BTW. February 25th DS9 season 1 comes out on DVD.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I think Darkhorse was more-or-less correct. Except, I myself like ST-IV more than he, I liked the light hearted humor.

ST humor was ruined *after* ST IV, now they just try too hard to add humor.

As for the next movie, as long as the movie makes more than it costs to produce, they'll make another in a few years. What cast? Well let's look at the facts:
- Paramount never really liked DS9.
- Voyager ended and Janeway is an admerial now anywyas.
- Enterprise is, so far, still in series production.
- A new crew would be a major gamble, I doubt Paramount would risk that very soon. (New writers would be a better choice!)

Anyhow, UNLESS Paramount changes the people running the ST franchise, I predict it'll be one of these possibilities (or very simular to):
- They will cook-up some reason for Riker and Troy to be on/near the Enterprise so everyone will be there like old times.
- Paramount will go cheap, Pickard and remaining crew without Riker and Troy. (no great loss)
- OR Riker and Troy under bid the contract and it's about them with a few of the old crew too. They'll cook-up some reason for Riker and wife to be near the Enterprise.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the world doesn't share western culture, but I still saw footage of a Santa Claus driving through Baghdad this Christmas.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shakespeare is hardly classified material though,
and I would expect TOS Klingons to enjoy it for its entertainment value, as they aren't that dfferent culturally from the U.S.S.R.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Klingons of TOS were definetly not the brainless berserker Vikings that B&B turned them into, especially post TNG. They were intelligent and scheming, and would have liked to understand their enemies better.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

I haven't watched the Last two ST movies. IMHO, ST has been going downhill for some time now. I'm not even interested in it anymore. I'm glad they killed Data, though. The emotion chip ruined him as a functional part of a starship crew, anyway.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

They killed Data? Why did they do that? Along with Picard, he was about the only member of that crew I didn't want to see eaten to death by those in-the-ear bugs from Wrath of Khan.

IMO Star Trek in general is a bit crap. Bits of Voyager and TNG were good, bits of DS9 were exceptional, but all the rest is pretty much worthless. (Havne't seen any of the latest series yet. Can't be bothered.)

Anyway, Data was one of the very few redeeming features of the Trekoverse. True, they handled the emotion chip poorly in the films, and OK, he probably should have been killed after that. So I guess there's nothing for me to whinge at after all. I think I'll shut up...

BTW: Little known Trek trivia- did you know that Patrick Stewart is a huge fan of the terrifyingly brilliant Transmetropolitan?

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lol, and someone called ME mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

Yeah, I'm really sad that Data died. He was my second-favorite character (after Picard).

In my opinion, Next Generation was the best Star Trek series. I would say Voyager was #2, the Original Series was #3, and Deep Space 9 was #4. I have only seen 4 or 5 episodes of Enterprise so I don't really have an opinion on that. However, in regards to story depth and continuity, nothing beats Babylon 5.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

The reason why Nemesis did poor domestically was the fact that it was released at a bad time, and casual viewers were more likely to spend their movie dollars on more mainstream films like The Two Towers etc, instead. Perhaps January or earlier in November would have been better.

The movie itself is not bad, and I would suggest that seeing the movie for yourself is the best course of action, rather than relying on other people's opinions - ones you might find later unjustified.

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes...B5 was my favorite too.

It had a lot going for it. Good character development, good storylines, plot development which took place over years, and we saw how many characters ended their lives. Most of all, we were not left hanging and wondering how things were going to turn out. There was a real effort to bring all the loose ends together in the final episodes. A great series. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Word of Mouth Has Killed
 

speaking of B5. has anyone heard anything about the sequel based upon the Rangers. I saw the movie but havent seen or heard anything since.

edit: started a new topic for this instead.

[ January 04, 2003, 18:56: Message edited by: desdinova ]