OT: New Brazilian President
 

Today, i'm pround of my country, because today, in my country, Brazil (we write Brasil here, we are having a definite proof that we live in a real democracy, and not a false one.....

Today, 01/01/2003, the new president Luis Inacio "Lula" da Silva is assuming presidency of my country, and, while i personally do not agree with all policies of the Workers Party an the new president, and i don't voted in him in his election, i'm pround, not of the president, but i'm pround of the democracy.

For everyone that don't knew, Brazil, until 1978 was officicialy a military dictature, where government were in the hand of the generals from the army.... from 1978 until around 1988 we lived in a "semi-democratic" state, where the president were elected from the people, but the true power still were in the hands of the military, and, in 1988 a new Constitution was proclamed, and we started to live a democracy.

But i say that only now we, brazilian citizens, have a definite proof that we live in a real democracy, because our new president is everything that our ancient "military presidents" were not: he came from the people, started working to sustain his family from 7 years old, worked in the metalurgic industry not as a owner but as a worker, was persecuted, imprisioned, tortured and nearly killed during the military governments, and never ceased to fight for the rights of the poor, the workers, and for the creation of a true democracy.

While, like i said before, i don't share the same visions of the new president and the Workers Party, that changed from a Leftist to a Center-Leftist orientation recently, i see, in the victory of our "Lula", the definitive proof that the democracy in my country is a real one, because he is the antitesis of every ditctatorial government, because he came from the poor, and always defended the real soul of my country: the people.

It's really hard to convey to you what a monumental historic moment is happening in Brazil, where a man, that once was one of the major enemies from the (military) government, that fought not only with ideas, but put his own life in the fight for democracy, being imprisioned, tortured and that didn't died in an obscure cell of a dark prision only because one of the jailors helped him, and revealed to the people where he was incarcerated (so the military of the time could not kill him to not create a martyr), is our new president, elected by the people, with a staggering majority.

He will not have a easy job, because Brazil, while one of the richest country in natural resources of the world have several problems, like the poverty, government corruption, and a escalating crime rate, but i have faith that, while we can't expect miracles, i knew that the new President will do everything in his power, like he did during all his life, to help the people, and defend the democracy.

Sorry if i exceded myself people, i just wanted to share some of this historic moment with citizens of other democracies, to show that, while our world isn't perfect, it have it's moments.....

Makinus

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Let's hope this is the beginning of a new era for the region.
Down here I'm not satisfied with any of the possible candidates, and it is uncertain how or when the elections will be.

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Now if only the US would take a cue from Brasil and get a real democracy...

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Congratulations to Brazil. I hope your leadership finds ways to fulfull their obligation to the citizenry.

Fyron?

I Beg Your Pardon?

What part of our political system fails to be democratic in nature?

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Edit: oops, accidental deletion! What was I saying? Ah, never mind, I don't feel like typing all that again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What I really meant was: Congratulations and best wishes for the people of Brasil. Happy New Year, indeed.

[ January 02, 2003, 00:41: Message edited by: DarkHorse ]

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Well let's see. The government is controlled/occupied by 2 massive parties that get closer and closer to the same thing with each passing year. There is no chance in heck of someone that is not a member of one of those parties getting into major political office. Either in it, or an "independant", which really doesn't mean much, as independants still normally maintain close ties with one party or the other. Only 2 parties doesn't seem very democratic to me.

The only way to get into major political office is to have a lot of money. So, it is very near impossible for people not affiliated with one of the 2 major parties to win. More money = closer to victory. I am not saying that more money = victory, I am just saying that you have to have a huge amount of money to spend on the campaign. The parties then only listen to those people that give them lots of money. Ie: ludicrously rich people, huge corporations, etc.

Money buys power. Ethics, policies, character, etc. take a back seat to money in American politcs. Seems rather un-democratic to me; almost like a Plutocracy.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Fyron,

I see what you mean. You certainly have a point. (I was afraid you were hinting at something else.)

For years, I have felt that the parties make mountains over molehills in order to keep the public's attention away from more important issues involving the loss of personal freedom and gain of power by governmental agencies.

The only problem is that any legislation to correct the problem of money buying elections would be an infringement of personal liberty by telling citizens what they may or may not spend their money on (i.e., forwarding a political cause).

The only real solution, IMHO, is for people to look past the fluff and try to focus on issues. We had a state senatorial election in my district this year in which the populous actually seemed to do that.

This reminds me of a remark made in the late 1700s by a prominent Englishman. Forgive me for not remembering the name, but the quote went something like this:

(paraphrased) Democracy will work until the public realizes they can vote themselves money from the public till.

If you look closely, most of the political 'hot' issues revolve around who will get the money.

Sincerely, Brazil... Best Wishes. Just remember, the best solution is not always the most popular.. in fact, it almost never is.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Pet peeve: the USA is NOT a democracy. It's a republic. The difference is in a democracy majority rules, period. A rebublic, aside from having elected representatives, gennerally has limits on what the majority can do.

Phoenix-D

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Majority means something in places? Wow!

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with you. The US should have a minimum of three parties and money should be removed from the equation. All the parties should have equal opportunity to speak their views to the people...all the people through all available media equally. In the end it is our money they use for their agenda.

Congratulations on your new president and democracy in Brasil.

[ January 02, 2003, 03:10: Message edited by: Wizarc ]

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

We almost had a third party with Ross Perot & his running mates...

Unfortunately, the media spent a lot of time equating having a different opinion to being a crackpot.

Now we (again) only have 2 viable parties.

I was never so ashamed of being an American as I was the day after the vice-presidential debate. Admiral Stockdale had a Vietnam flashback in front of God & everybody and all we could do (as
a group) was poke fun at him.

-- AND --

Did you ever notice that President Bush (the Last one) was pro NAFTA and the Democratic leadership was against it.. and as soon as Bill Clinton got elected HE was pro NAFTA and the Republican leadership was against it?

Reminds me of the shell game.

Again, best wishes Brazil.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

The parties are becoming more and more the same thing with each passing year.

The media is too ultra liberal to give an unbiased account of anything.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

"I agree with you. The US should have a minimum of three parties and money should be removed from the equation. All the parties should have equal opportunity to speak their views to the people...all the people through all available media equally. In the end it is our money they use for their agenda."

There's this little problem with that called the first amendment. And really, every law on this made, ways are found to skirt it, which means more restrictions are called for, which- etc etc etc.

Phoenix-D

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

congratulations to brasil.

i agree with Phoenix-D about us being a Republic.
i think there should be a none of the above option on the ballot.

edit: from tesco Samoa's horrorscope for today

Aries: (March 21—April 19)
You know, the stars are beginning to suspect that it is no longer possible for a competent person to be elected president of this nation.

Thats me.

[ January 02, 2003, 06:32: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Democracy/Republic isn't the problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

your right its not, but i think it would be interesting to see how many people would vote none of the above. maybe if there were enough then the Groups that run the government might realize we are not happy with the existing choices and make changes. i was an idea from Brewsters Millions, and it thought i actually made sense.

edit: spelling

[ January 02, 2003, 06:53: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

None of the above needs to have teeth... like.... if none of the above wins, then there is another election and these jokers can't run.!!!!

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Voter turnout has been steadily decreasing every year for a long time now (I don't remember how long). That is about the same as voting none of the above.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

Our form of democracy may not be perfect, but I'm grateful that it is not like some other parts of the world. A few months ago, there was an election in Iraq. Saddam Hussein won 100% of the votes and was re-elected president. The ballots only had "yes" or "no" as the choices. If you voted "no", you faced possible execution!

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">More importantly, the newspapers and TV channels are controlled by ppl who stand to profit from one party or another, and so can and will prevent certain things from being reported. As long as the media control is split fairly between the parties that isn't such a bad thing, but media is becoming more and more monopolised.

That is one of the good things about the UK (although I'm sure we have at least as much corruption in our political system as anyone else) - we have the BBC. It's owned by the people and (in theory at least) completely unbiased. Of course it's just a matter of time before some government or other flogs it off to Rupert Murdoch to be rebranded, strip mined and obliterated like every other public service we ever used to have.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

-----
Quote Geoschmo:
"Clinton was always one of the few Democrats that supported NAFTA, and after he was elected, the Republicans as a party still pretty much supported NAFTA. That never changed."
-----

Yes. But when the new president really wants it, they could find a way to make him pay for their support.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I never noticed that, cause it never happened. Clinton was always one of the few Democrats that supported NAFTA, and after he was elected, the Republicans as a party still pretty much supported NAFTA. That never changed.

There might have been a few republicans that were against it, just like Clinton and a few Democrats supported it. But they were agaisnt it before Clinton was elected too. They didn't change their opinion of the treaty just because the party the President belonged to changed.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, there's no such thing as being unbiased. Every report is inherently biased, whether by what is reported or what is not. While we can work to keep our bias in check and present all sides of an issue, no one can claim to represent all sides equally.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is because people realize their vote doesn't make any difference. Maybe after the 'cliff-hanger' of 2000 people will be more interetsed in the 2004 election. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sometimes, it does. Especially if you look beyond the national level elections.

A few years ago, we had a referendum to radically change our county's home rule charter (basically the county constitution). It passed by a razor-thin margin; I forget the exact percentages, but it came out to an average difference of less than one vote per ward.

Re: OT: New Brazilian President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kamog, the U.S. is the #1 country of the world in many aspects (Economy, Industry, Technology, Military power, Organization...) You should not compare with Iraq, nor with any other 3rd world country, nor with any other tyranny. U.S. should compare with the most advanced nations.
Compared with Iraq, almost any government (Even the Spanish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) will look excellent.