Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

I'm trying to get all six neutrals into my game. I tried editing the "min/max neutral player" lines in Settings.txt, but I never get more than five. Is this a bug?

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Yes, it is.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Curious but why would you want 6 neutral empires??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Or are you some vengeful emperor who loves to subjugate people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, that's it exactly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'm trying to setup a game with many neutral races and a handful of major races, similar to the setup of Star Trek: Birth of the Federation. But first I wanted to see if I could get the original six neutrals in the game before downloading more. But I guess that idea will have to wait for a future patch, if Malfador decides to fix it.

Related question: what's the upper limit on the number of races in the game, neutrals plus regulars?

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

There can be 20 total races in a game.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

I hate to bump an old thread, but I'm having this same problem. Will it ever be fixed? I've set the maximum neutrals and such, and disabled 'empires' but I still only get 5 neutrals no matter what I do, so it's not hitting the upper limit of players or anything like that.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

No idea if it will ever be fixed. I doubt it is that high of a priority, and with there only being one final patch (hopefully), it might not get fixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Email se4@malfador.com requesting that it be fixed. The more people that want it, the bigger of a priority it may become. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

I haven't been playing this game *because* of that bug. =/

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

The game still has a lot to offer in spite of that bug.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

I know that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But I've been wanting to play a game with lots of neutrals, and Last I heard was a year ago when folks said that this would be fixed in the next patch. :>

I still poke my mega uber game every so often, play a few turns on that and check on my.. uh.. ~25 ringworlds. But with nothing left to research it's kind of dull. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Granted I'm still learning PvK's Proportions mod, but based on what I know so far if you manage to subjugate a neutral early on, you'd have a huge advantage. The solution would be to have more neutrals so everybody has a chance to grab one or two. So, yeah, I hope this bug gets fixed in any final patch. It may not be priority, but it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to fix.

My two cents. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not a bug, but a problem that has not yet been addressed.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uh....? Doublespeak? :>

Seriously, is there a difference betweeen a bug and a "problem that has not yet been addressed"? Some kind of distinction between the two?

IMHO bugs should be fixed as soon as they are found. Leaving bugs around because not enough people are complaining is.. well, something that might make me reconsider buying the next Version or other titles, if I wasn't such a sucker for supporting small game publishers and companies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

It is quite possible that only allowing 5 neutrals in a game was an intentional feature, you know. Shouldn't be IMO, and the fact that there is no mention of it anywhere would suggest that it wasn't intentional, but you never know.

Keep in mind that there is a lot to work on, and bugs can often be very difficult to track down. MM fixes as many bugs as they can in a reasonable time frame for only having one programmer in the company (one person in the company to begin with). Also, stuff has to be prioritized. Minor bugs (according to MM's prioritizations) tend to get less attention and fixed later than major bugs (things like TDBs doing 4x damage to ALL targets, regardless of shielding are rather major). The number of neutrals allowable is a very minor bug in comparison to other bugs. MM's track record for fixing bugs and such in patches is one of the best in the industry.

[ September 08, 2003, 03:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">in data/settings.txt:


Minimum Neutral Player Low Setting := 1
Maximum Neutral Player Low Setting := 5
Minimum Neutral Player Medium Setting := 5
Maximum Neutral Player Medium Setting := 10
Minimum Neutral Player High Setting := 10
Maximum Neutral Player High Setting := 15


... these settings exist. If it was hard-coded why would they be here? (My Version of these are modified. Dunno what the original settings are)

And whether a bug is minor or major is a matter of perspective, isn't it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Granted, show-stoppers like crashes and such would be agreed to be major by all. You think the TDB bug is major whereas I don't even remember what that stands for. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 08, 2003, 03:30: Message edited by: Alari ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

The settings do work, just not over 5. Try putting them on 1 or something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

TDB = Time Distortion Burst, a Temporal weapon. That was definitely a show-stopper and required using a mod to remove the 4x to shields ability.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You know that they don't work properly. If one neutral was what I was trying to get, I wouldn't be here, would I?

And from what you described, TDB seems to be a less major bug than the number of neutrals. After all, it can be fixed by a mod, whereas I can't get the number of neutrals over 5 no matter what I do.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, and the perspective that matters is that of MM. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Not that I speak for MM or anything.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You know that they don't work properly. If one neutral was what I was trying to get, I wouldn't be here, would I?

And from what you described, TDB seems to be a less major bug than the number of neutrals. After all, it can be fixed by a mod, whereas I can't get the number of neutrals over 5 no matter what I do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">TDB was fixed. It was a major issue because it had the potential to ruin dozens of PBW games. And it is not the only bug of such severity to have appeared over the years (not been discovered, but appeared accidentally). Neutrals are fairly pointless as they are very easy to overrun. Having a lot of them just makes the game really easy to win. This is why I said that the number of neutrals is a minor issue. Much better off playing multiplayer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I don't see why we are still arguing about this. We both want it fixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

I would think it would be the perspectives of their customers, the ones who pay for their software and keep them in business. ^.^

But like I said, I support small game companies when I can.

edit: and I want it fixed too. :> I didn't realize we were arguing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But I don't think neutrals are pointless, and from what I've heard they can be made fairly challenging with the right AI files.

[ September 08, 2003, 04:06: Message edited by: Alari ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

If one person complains about a relatively minor feature, it is not a big priority. If a lot of people complain, it becomes a higher priority. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif There are probably a lot more critical things to work on than number of neutrals. MM has limited time and all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Right, it's not for either of us to decide their work schedules. =) But like you said, the more noise that gets made about this bug, the more likely they are to fix it. Well, here I am, making noise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and I know I'm not the only one who would like to see this bug squashed.

Considering it's kept me from starting any new games that I want to play, due to the time investment for the kind of gameplay that I like, and I've already played one game that's not got the quantity of AI players that I wish it to have (I've been waiting around basically since I bought the game because I read that this would be fixed in a patch) -- this is something that's fairly important to me and I hope they find the time to correct what seems like a reasonably simple bug to fix.

[ September 08, 2003, 04:13: Message edited by: Alari ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure! Wanna play by e-mail, once a day, no combat for the first 500 turns? (That's just getting started, after all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif =)

No? :>

(I have a feeling my style of play may be a bit... er, different, than most others')

[ September 08, 2003, 04:41: Message edited by: Alari ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Umm... if you just want AI players, you can have up to 20 players in a game. The settings for normal AIs work fine. Why do you want so many neutrals anyways? They are not very good opponents.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure! Wanna play by e-mail, once a day, no combat for the first 500 turns? (That's just getting started, after all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif =)

No? :>

(I have a feeling my style of play may be a bit... er, different, than most others')</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... I do not think I have ever had a game Last 500 turns... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't want "opponents", I want to seek out new life, and new civilizations, to boldly.. eh, you know the rest. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Neutrals seemed like a way to fill out the rest of the galaxy with people who aren't xenophobic war-mongerers. Sorry, expansionist xenophobic war-mongerers. I knew I forgot something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 08, 2003, 04:43: Message edited by: Alari ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My 'uber' game is in the 2460s and NO I did NOT hold down the end-turn key with a rock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'm still re-arranging the universe in that one, too. Got my nature preserves and a few alien colonies and finally decided to go ahead and clean up half the black holes so I could have a few extra gateway systems. :> Whee! It's fun but I can only play a few turns before I get the urge to go watch Star Trek.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Neutrals are no less xenophobic or war-mongering. They just can't send attacks at you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Try the Star Trek Mod? You get the best of both worlds! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How so?

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But once in a while they do expand. I have seen a major surrender to a neutral and then the neutral expanded rather well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure! Wanna play by e-mail, once a day, no combat for the first 500 turns? (That's just getting started, after all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif =)

No? :>

(I have a feeling my style of play may be a bit... er, different, than most others')</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... I do not think I have ever had a game Last 500 turns... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">500 turns is a lot to ask for in a PBW game with no combat. Most combat occurs around 50 turns and up. Think about the math on this, a game that has a turn a day for 500 days without combat. That is like nearly 2 years. NO PBW game has ever Lasted that long that I am aware of. Most die off around six months or so.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I too would love to have a game with a bunch of neutral AI's and only a few Majors. Kinda like BOTF.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Neutrals are very important to any game. I love neutral races. They add flavor to the game and give me aliens to conquer.

As for MM, they are working on SF at the moment and have not had a lot of time to work on a new patch for SEIV. I have heard that there will be one Last patch, and I hope that it will include a fix for several things.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It might be possible to mod out an AI's ability to colonize or conquer by removing colony components and troops from the standard tech tree (and make them racial techs so you can still use them), which could have an effect similar to what you seem to be after.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How so?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You get both SE4 and Star Trek all in one.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

I see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Do you realize you have something like 4000 more Posts than me. When did you do this? How did you do this? Why did you do this? And what Posts have I missed?

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My thinking exactly! That's why I brought this up in January. SEIV plus the Star Trek mod plus more than five neutrals is probably a whole lot better than BOTF anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*creates diVersion*

Look over there! It is a distraction!

*runs away*

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I.. think that was kind of my point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ok, new rules, you can attack before turn 500. If you don't accidentaly trip over the minefield welcome mat and actually manage to carry out your attack, you get a complimentary black hole in your homeworld system. ^.^ *silly*

Basically my playstyle would be like antimatter to your matter. I couldn't really expect to play multiplayer and have the kind of fun that I want to have. :>

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I.. think that was kind of my point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ok, new rules, you can attack before turn 500. If you don't accidentaly trip over the minefield welcome mat and actually manage to carry out your attack, you get a complimentary black hole in your homeworld system. ^.^ *silly*

Basically my playstyle would be like antimatter to your matter. I couldn't really expect to play multiplayer and have the kind of fun that I want to have. :></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You could achieve this with a higher tech start and limit combat to after 100 turns. But 500 turns, man that is a lot. It boggles the mind.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hehe, why so complicated? Just remove colonizers from the construction queues and/or designs.

Rollo

[ September 08, 2003, 10:21: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

It's actually easier than that. Just don't give them "attack ships" in their construction queues. Only "attack ships" explore. That way, they still colonize and build up their home system, and build defense ships, but don't leave home (until you find them...)

[ September 08, 2003, 15:24: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">that is not correct

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">that is not correct</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd swear I saw that in a modding tutorial somewhere...

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

Colony Ships do not explore, but pretty much any other design will.

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh come on, whoever controls StarFleet has been playing for, what, somewhere between 3 and 4 *thousand* turns? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Granted, somehow they got the galaxy size above 250 systems... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif :>

Seems long, but like I said I've been playing this one game for a year or so instead of getting into new ones. If you add up all the turns from all the games you've played, how many total would it be?

(back on the subject) Hopefully they'll fix the Neutrals bug so I can start a new game. :>

[ September 08, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: Alari ]

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

What exactly is this smiley supposed to be? :>

Re: Can\'t get more than 5 neutral races
 

The Evil Smiley. :>