physicist call
 

Hey there, im creating my RP race now and i want it to be a gravity-based race.

Is there anyone who knows something about physics of gravity? Any help appreciated. IF there's anyone i'll post my questions.

[ January 07, 2003, 05:15: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: physicist call
 

Just post your questions now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: physicist call
 

Gravity-based you say?

As in composed of gravitiational fields? Or some sort of self-maintaining gravitational wave pattern?

I would suggest you go with some gravitational lensing effects as your images.

Such as this: (from the hubble)
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/Images/news/lens_fig4.gif

There is a gravitational lensing plugin for photoshop linked to on this page: http://leo.astronomy.cz/grlens/grl0.html

Having invisible ships that distort the background stars to show their shape would IMO, be really cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Here's some more:
http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn...wk14glens1.jpg http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/ma...s/image006.gif
from Google's archive (source page no longer available), and http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/matter/
respectively

[ January 07, 2003, 04:48: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: physicist call
 

is that that thing when you drop an apple and a feather and they fall at the same rate? or is it more like when you get stuck to the core of jupiter and can't get up?

Re: physicist call
 

Sorry SJ i've no idea what is this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif
What i mean is - anyone remember my TechnoLogic?
Im rebuilding them as RP race but i want them to use gravity technology as a racial trait (at least for the RP part). I also have some ideas for a new set but i want it to be realistic.

My questions are:
*Ships that utilize gravity force-field technology (gravity weapons, gravity stasis-trap armor, gravity field shield -- just my first ideas) need to have a good shape to support those technologies. Somewhere i've read that spheric shapes work the best. is that a correct assumption? Theoretically, of course.
*Theoretically again how would gravity based weapons look like? Should i use the basic cone-with-toruses-around-it?
*Theoretically can gravity fields be used to stop particles, no matter the size/type/velocity? (shields stopping APBs, PPBs, DUCs and so on)
*What are gravitons? How are they related to gravity? (same root)
*What are possible ways of harnessing gravity technology? especially for weaponry (excluding standard brute gravity power used by Graviton Hellbore)

Thats all for now, i will probably have more questions later.

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that they are not real particles. They only exist in sci-fi. There, they are normally used as particles that carry the gravitic force, just like photons carry the electro-magnetic force. Of course, I could be wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is no gravity manipulation devices even theoretically except for accumulations of mass. Some black holes and heavy duty tractor repulsor beams to swing 'em around in patterns, perhaps?

Gravitons are unobserved, but are the theorized particle that mediates gravity.
You may as well consider it the particle of gravity, like a photon is a particle of electromagnetic energy.

You could use a black hole streched out around your ship... It would naturally absorb anything that comes at you, but it would absorb anything you try to shoot outwards too. I suppose you could swing it around, or have a bunch of separate hole shields with gaps for your guns.

Heck, why not go for a wormhole shield, one mouth on each side, so that weapons and energy pass around your ship...

Of course, if you could do that, you could throw planets at your enemies.

Perhaps better would be if you just had "classic sci-fi" artificial gravity technology.
Then you'd put an outward gravity force starting just above your armor, so weapons are slowed down (less kinetic damage) and energy beams are redshifted down to less harmful energies.

You could have very high accelerations for your missiles / torpedoes without damaging any components inside...
you could manouever your ship at over 2 g accelerations.

You could probably also make a Gravy Gun, by projecting a small zone of pull, surrounded by a zone of push gravity. Punch neat holes in the enemy ship from close range. Or just randomize the gravity pattern, and shred the ship.

There is the possibility of reasonable artificial singularities, and you could make a safe Hawking reactor without worring about your black hole sterilizing the starsystem if it gets out of control.
(Tiny black holes radiate energy, the smaller, the faster, in a direct mass to energy conVersion (E=MC^2) without any need for antimatter)

Re: physicist call
 

Interesting.
Yes, i want something around "classic sci-fi" gravity manipulation.

Question: is "annihilation" of matter in large quantities somehow related to gravity?

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but only in a vacuum. When you drop them in the atmosphere, the feather falls slower because its shape has greater air resistance.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The surface gravity of Jupiter is 2.53G. You would weight 2.53 times as much on Jupiter.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but you will need an extremely powerful gravitational field.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A graviton is a theoretical particle that carries the gravitational force. Its existence has not yet been confirmed experimentally.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, not only does matter annihilation produce a large amount of energy, the reaction will also produce gravity waves. Gravity waves could possibly be used as a weapon if they could be focused and directed.

Re: physicist call
 

Please remember that this is a sci-fi game and everything you make or invent is as credible as a graviton drive for a modern day satellite. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
All the stuff about the gravity and the particles that mediate (nice word) for gravity is unfortunately very theoretical. I suggest you read the book that Stephen Hawking wrote about gravity and the universe or his book about time and space. Very informative for the people who never got into contact with such reading-matter. IUt's written in a way that everyone who has a basic grip on physics can read it.

Re: physicist call
 

I remember a joke that was going around before the launch of the Hubble telescope. "Well if it doesn't work, they can call it the Hubble Ruble Scope."

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/Images/news/lens_fig4.gif

Unfortunetly this is just a picture of one start, but because the lense is dirty, you get this odd effect. I recomend some windex and a cloth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Sir, the enemy appears to be armed with giant green flashlights." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: physicist call
 

http://www.iam.ubc.ca/~newbury/lenses/research.html

Slick.

Re: physicist call
 

How about Implosion for a cool gravity based damage type? Make the ship weigh so much it collapses on itself.

Don't forget about neutron stars, as well. They are stars that didn't quite have enough mass to collapse all the way into black holes, but are still dense (I think the most dense in the universe that we know of). In a tech tree, maybe you can use them as the tech you get before you black holes, etc.

Re: physicist call
 

I have neutron stars as a system type in the TNG mod. They operate like blackholes, except their effects are less. I also added pulsars, which have sensor and shield effects.

[ January 07, 2003, 17:45: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: physicist call
 

sci-fi is full of gravity related devices. star wars' yuuzhan vong ships use gravity as propulsion, defense and weapon. star trek used it for gravity aboard ships.

as defense: gravity can be used to distort the path a incoming weapon travels causing it to miss you, regardless of energy or projectile. using a high gravity focus you can actually suck incoming atks into it. using a variation of anti-gravity you can form a shield which will repulse incoming atks. as gravity inside a ship it can be used against boarding parties you can either increase gravity imobilizing them or change the direction of "up" causing them to fall to the ceilling or wall.

as a weapon: see graviton hellbore in seiv for 1 thing. again using a focused gravity source you could create a short range device that crushes enemy ships from the high gravity. also can be used as a tractor/repulsor device which can move objects around or can be used to slow down a target making it easier to hit. can also be used as a sheild depleting device.

propulsion: thruster plates that can absorb graviton particles from one direction and project them out another or by creating a gravity well in the direction you want to travel and your ship constantly falls towards it.

miscellaneous: using a variation of the grav plates for gravity you can create minor inertial dampening devices allowing increased combat maneuverability.

[ January 07, 2003, 19:09: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just the thing to fight potato pixies with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: physicist call
 

thank you all for your replies, they are helpful.

i didnt get a responce to my question about shapes though. does spherical shape have theoretical positive effects on ship's gravity-field generation?

Re: physicist call
 

There is no theory behind it.

Whatever looks the coolest and highest-tech will do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: physicist call
 

I don't know this but it makes sense that planets and stars are close to spherical because gravity isn't a "directional" force, being a curvature of space/time. Most celestial bodies arn't perfect spheres due to other forces. For example the rotation of the earth causing a bulge at the equator.

The way I see it, if you can control gravity, it doesn't really matter what shape your ships or weapons are. Spiral them like a corkscrew. Have them in seperate pieces. Make them inside out. Or all of the above http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just the thing to fight potato pixies with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope you need a "SPUD GUN" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: physicist call
 

Hey, spud guns are fun. You stick the gun into a potato to load it, and it shoots out the little piece of potato when you fire the gun. But it's just a toy and it does zero damage so it's useless as a weapon.

Re: physicist call
 

A spud gun isn't useless as a weapon, you just need a larger mount for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: physicist call
 

Spud guns? Ha! Gravy guns? For girls!

*dogscoff powers up his core-mount onion-gun

...*rumble*... what's that noise... and that smell..?

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Everything does damage, if you shoot it fast enough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: physicist call
 

I read an article pubilshed recently that its been tested and confirmed (using some anomoly of Jupiter) that gravity travels at the speed of light. I'd think this might be some evidence of the existance of gravitrons.

Seems like gravity based devices would be very good on the defensive, something like an ECM device maybe? Also, I would think they'd be very very effective at stellar manipulations.

Re: physicist call
 

Not a real answer, but some basic info even a chimp would understand, nontheless informative.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970608.html

This one is also a bit simple, but gives more info about the role of photons and gravitons. It even mentions the unification theory, I'm very fond on this stuff.

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae233.cfm

[ January 10, 2003, 18:30: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll have to see if I can dig up the photo of the 'potato cannon' I built about 20 years ago. Made out of 3" PVC pipe 6 feet long. Would launch a potato 200+ yards! Awesome! Woke up everyone for blocks!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Talk about a 'spinal mount' potato gun....

Re: physicist call
 

Timstone,

Thanks for those links! I love to read that stuff as well.

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">GARLIC!!! I changed your onion to GARLIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How does it work? It is like a catapult? Or maybe a big slingshot? It would really hurt to be hit by a high-velocity potato from such a cannon!

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How does it work? It is like a catapult? Or maybe a big slingshot? It would really hurt to be hit by a high-velocity potato from such a cannon!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I used butane lighter fuel or hairspray. It's actually a wonder I still have all my parts.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif A true cannon. I got in trouble several times with police. For the record, I wouldn't recommend anyone building one 'cause they can be very dangerous (with only a PVC combustion chamber!)

You can read some more about 'em here just be sure to read some of the stories - you'll ROFLYAO!!!

Re: physicist call
 

We have a propane-powered PVC cannon at the cottage. 2 meters long, with a fat combustion chamber at the bottom and a skinny barrel for more velocity. There's also a remote ignition system, so we can take cover http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Kaaa-FOOM. Then, a few seconds later, a splash far across the lake http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

We even made a silencer for it out of metal, which works surprisingly well. Cuts the noise level way down, and dosen't seem to affect the power.

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How does it work? It is like a catapult? Or maybe a big slingshot? It would really hurt to be hit by a high-velocity potato from such a cannon!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I used butane lighter fuel or hairspray. It's actually a wonder I still have all my parts.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif A true cannon. I got in trouble several times with police. For the record, I wouldn't recommend anyone building one 'cause they can be very dangerous (with only a PVC combustion chamber!)

You can read some more about 'em here just be sure to read some of the stories - you'll ROFLYAO!!!

Re: physicist call
 

rdouglass, how do you have a 23 minute separation between double Posts, with a post by SJ in-between? That is amazing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My pleasure!

Re: physicist call
 

Rdouglass, thanks for the info, there's some really interesting stories on that Potato Cannon link you gave us! I had no idea that you could build potato guns that powerful. These guns are indeed not toys, they are pretty dangerous! It's amazing that you could give a potato so much speed that it pierces 1/2" plywood! Some people were firing all sorts of other projectiles like limes, cans of beer, jelly beans, dead rats, dynamite sticks, Barbie dolls, light bulbs, D cell batteries, etc. It does sound like a risky hobby, though.

Re: physicist call
 

Ever tried building your own railgun? Now that's cool!
Me and some friends did it. It took almost three months to build the monster, but when it was finished we could fire 9 inch nails (no, not the group, heh) completely through 18 mm. plywood. This was with the help of a 24V battery. When we plugged it into the electric mains, we could fire the nail completely through three seperate pieces of 18 mm. plywood. The pieces were seperated from eachother by aproximately 5 cm..
We didn't make any photo's because we made the monster on school. When the teachers found out what we had constructed from schoolmaterial, we had to dismantle it immediately. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
There are masses of sites on the on the net with good guides how to build such a device.

Re: physicist call
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dunno' 'bout amazing but it sure is weird... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: physicist call
 

I would like to build a railgun, that would be fun! At one point I almost built one. When I was a student, I got together with three other guys to do a project. Our initial idea was to build a railgun, and I started doing some research on how to build one. Then the "politically correct" guy in the group had second thoughts and started to say that we shouldn't build a weapon because that's violent. He convinced the other two guys to abandon the idea and I was overruled. We ended up building a musical instrument instead.

Re: physicist call
 

That spudgun link brought tears to my eyes. Thing is I'm at work so I have been painfully trying to surpress laughterfor the Last 20 minutes.

Would it be possible to build one of those using scaffolding pipe as the barrel? I guess it would be heavy, but you wouldn't have to worry about muzzle explosions.

Re: physicist call
 

Another link for spudguns...

Air Spud potato cannon

Re: physicist call
 

Just a thought relating this to the orignal post. You could build a gravity railgun. Have a point of extreme gravity attraction at the tip of the barrel, the potato/nail/object will accelerate towards the point, then right as it gets to it, you turn the gravity point off and let inertia do its trick.

Of course, having the same weapons as everyone else but "gravity powered" might be boring http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: physicist call
 

Kamog: Damn, political correctness is such a party crasher. Damn pascifism! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif