OT: Rating the President
 

Do you approve or disapprove of how George W. Bush is handling his job as president?

38% Strongly approve 131,351
32% Strongly disapprove 111,595
16% Disapprove 54,625
14% Approve 48,533
1% No opinion 3,730
Total votes: 349,834

Do you think President Bush understands the problems of ordinary Americans?

50% No 175,519
46% Yes 159,232
4% Not sure 14,562
Total votes: 349,313

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Be glad I'm not in office.....BOOM! fight terror with terror!

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Meh ... I may be getting old and cynical, but you need a rating of barely approve. If I disapproved even slightly, my conscience as a member of a democracy would require me to do something, and I don't wanna -- I only know I don't have the answers.

I only hope the military can take care of itself and make good decisions to secure the safety of all those volunteers -- I've never thought thought any president made a good commander in chief. Well, maybe Eisenhower, but that's way beforre my time.

[ January 14, 2003, 23:35: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

George Bush -
"So you don't want us to inspect this palace se Saddam?"

Saddam -
"Go screw yourself you white satan!"

George Bush -
*Smiles* "Na, I have a better plan."

*From satellite imaging*
You see many people running from palace.
Seconds later big white explosion.
Moments later, big hole in ground where Palace used to be.

George Bush -
"Any more Palaces you don't want searched?"

Saddam -
"OMG! You bastard! that was a childrens hospital!"

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

You got to ask yourself: "Is our childrens learning?"

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

The inspectors still haven't discovered any evidence of nuclear or biological weapons in Iraq, right?

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

I think George W Bush is a right bastard. He is a corrupt and cynical, and if he was standing next to me right now I'd probably punch him.

1> I believe there was definitely some kind of chicanery involved in the "election" that put him in the whitehouse.

2> His attitude toward environmental issues (refusal to sign Kyoto treaty, drilling for oil in Alaska) is intolerable.

3> He has defiled the memory of all the ppl who died in the twin towers by using their deaths as currency in his warmongering and erosion of civil liberties.

4> His abuses of human rights (those ppl locked up in Cuba without charge, status, trial or legal representation) are intolerable.

5> His relentless agenda for warfare, which will result in countless innocent deaths and no positive change in the middle eastern region is intolerable.

I'm reading a book right now about current American politics. It's very biased, and I take everything with a pinch of salt, but it there is clear evidence in there that Bush is nothing more than a corporate puppet, stripping away environmental protection and sending people to their deaths in order to advance the interests of his oil/ power company backers.

Not that we are any better off in the UK: Tony Blair should get his nose out of Bush's arsehole and lead the world in standing up to him.

The worst thing is that our major opposition party is equally renowned for corruption and as far as I can tell the US opposition party is not much better than Bush.

Just my opinion.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

What I am about to say may upset a few people, but it is my opinion that George Bush missed the boat of being a great president.

Being a neighbour of the U S of A, I wondered from 9/11 why George Bush did not actively propose a world court and a world law.

With 9/11, he had a magnificent opportunity since almost every nation lost citizens in the twin towers.

IMHO, the shock of the collapse would have galvanized the major nations of the world into establishing a world court with teeth to deal with nations who terrorize others just as our national courts deal with individuals who terrorize individual citizens within national borders.

All, it need was a leader and in this I feel George Bush fell short.

Instead, he choose to go on a crusade against the Al Queda while requesting the rest of world follow. And most of the world did because of the loss of their citizens and because of the shock of the event.

Now he wants to go after Iraq and he also has an issue with North Korea.

I wonder why he didn't take the route of establishing a world court in concert with the support of other nations.

I can only come up with the concept that he feared that the U S of A would have to use its power somewhat more responsibly because it could come up on charges if it misused its powers.

Because as it now stands, the U S of A is the only superpower, both economically and militarily, and most nations do not want to seriously offend the U S of A because if push came to shove, the weaker nation is sure to suffer.

Generally, I feel that the U S of A has an admirable record in conducting itself in world affairs.

But power does corrupt and absolute power does corrupt absolutely. With no outside body like a world court to judge its actions, the U S of A will have to be unusually diligent in overseeing its own actions to ensure it does not misuse it's power.

One can argue we already have the United Nations and a world court. But it is apparent, they lack the the formulation of laws to deal with terrorism as well as the power to enforce it. With 9/11, Bush could have ensured major changes which would have made the world a safer place since all the nations would be an active participant rather than just following the lead of the U S of A whenever it suffers a catastrophe.

And before I am buried under a barrage of vitriol (probably from U.S. citizens), I want to say the above is only my opinion. : )

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

tbon: I agree with all of that (except the bit about Bush having the potential to be a good president:-) ). Well said.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isn't there hope for Blair still? I mean I thought I read an article saying that his own party, the opposition parties, and the British public all oppose going to war with Iraq (without the sanction of the UN that is). Surely Blair would get the message?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The explanations I've heard is that the US is afraid of a wort could come up on charges if it misused its powers."

Or he thought a world court would be used in a biased manner. I remember for example Sudan being appointed to the human rights commison. Maybe because they have so much experience with violating it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I LIKE THIS!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3, Did you for get the battle cry of WW2? Rember Pearl Harbor" ?

as to the ppl in Cuba..Taleban?? AlQuada?? they lucky to still be alive!

just mho

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is true. In fact the UN inspectors also have not been able to find the Bio/Chem weapons that it found the Last time that they were there in the country. What happened to those weapons? Iraq says they were destroyed. The UN inspectors say ok where are your documents regarding the destruction? Iraq is silent.

AS for a world court. As others have stated why would we support something that would be used as a weapon against us.

Look I know that this is an international forum. But I do not understand why other countries cannot see what the US is trying to do. To me it seems that George W Bush is trying to make the world safer for everybody.

As for drilling for oil in Alaska. If you don't agree with the Iraq policy then you should be in favor of drilling for our own oil so that we do not have to concern ourselves with the middle east.

[ January 15, 2003, 17:39: Message edited by: Perrin ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Ah yes, Kyoto. Treaty signed by President Clinton, lost ratification by the Senate 98-0, and it's all President Bush's fault.

Ooookay.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<$.02>

The thread was about rating George "Dubyah" wasn't it? Well IMHO he isn't doing a great job; adequate but not great. However, he IS standing up for his principles (right OR wrong) and not switching to the political view of the moment. As it pertains to world politics, he seems to say something and commits to it. Just check your own local politician on that level.

To me, that earns him a few points. 'Course all those points are dismissed 'cause some of his principles are kinda' "boneheaded"..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

</$.02>

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

From peace and prosperity to war and depression. I think that says it all.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

All I would like to know is when is it OK for the US to act? When Americans are killed in terrorist actions in other countries we are not supposed to do anything about it cause it didn't happen in our country. But when an attack happens in America we aren't supposed to do anything because people from other countries were killed too?

Why do we need a new court to say what happened on 9/11 was bad? Isn't it patently obvious? Why do we need more laws? Is there a country in the world where those kinds of things are legal now?

At least GWB asked if anyone wanted to join. He could have gone and done it without even consulting anyone. But that's not how things are done anymore. But give him credit for making it perfectly clear that we were taking action with or without help from anyone else.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yes! G.W. Bush forced those terrorists onto the planes and forced them to fly into the twin towers killing 3000 people. No wait I bet he flew the planes himself and jumped out at the Last minute.

We were the ones that were attack idiot! You know I can respect the attack on the Pentagon because it is a valid military target. But how would you like it if your friends and relatives went to work one day and then have to watch as the buildings they work in come tumbling down.

and all you can say is:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are probably on of those people who thinks we shouldn't have a military. Give me a break!!

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually that doesn't say anything. That's a sound bite. A quip. A sarcastic comment with no substance.

Bush is responsible for us going from peace and prosperity to war and depression?

War came to us. We didn't ask anyone to blow up the World Trade Center. Those plans were put in place during the previous administration. Does that mean they are Clintons fault? Of course not! They are the fault of those that did them.

And secondly we aren't in a depression. We are in a recession, and a fairly mild one at that. Most of the economic problems are a result of fear caused by the downturn in t

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Oops wrong thread

[ January 26, 2003, 16:21: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

No it is not the wrong thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Suddenly from 16 pages this thread is reduced to 2? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

When I submitted my post, I thought I was somehow transported to another thread.

Does deleted pages happen very often?

Anyways, here is the post I had made, deleted and make again.

It may not make much sense to some people because of the intervening lost pages.

But it does outline my position with my Posts in the face of certain criticisms.
=============================================
Fyron, here is an example where I don't like using the edit button when the pace is fast and furious.

In this thread,
1) I made a post at 13:56
2) Mephisto made a post at 14.05
3) At the same time Mephisto made his post, I edited my post (at 14:05).
4) At 14:06, I posted a reply to Mephisto.
5) At 15:04, Mephisto amended his posting to include my edited posting.

Now anyone reading the posting with think "What the f...! What is tbontob talking about in reading his edited posting."

I think I'll go back to my usual way of doing things.

If things are fast and furious, I will post a new posting.

If things are not fast and furious, I will edit my post in my usual manner.

Whether things are fast and furious or not will be my judgement call.

So, it will just have to be something you are going to have to accept. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And if you can't, well it is your problem, not mine! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

EDIT: I am not rigid on this. If God or the administrators of this site dictate I should post in a different manner, then I will comply.

But that is unlikely.

God has not spoken to me recently. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Nor have the administrators. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And the Last time I looked, you did not administer this site.

[ January 26, 2003, 16:47: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

How well do you think GW would do at SEIV? - at this point - that's what I'd like to know.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

You're right, tbontob! This topic used to be a LOT longer than 2 pages! What happened?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif There was a lot of interesting discussions on those pages that vanished. Are they gone forever now?

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Yeah, who's the wise guy that decided to kill off our discussions?

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Thanks Kamog! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Over two hours had elapsed since my posting and I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed it, or if I was the only one who cared or if I was going just plain crazy and had imagined it all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Tbontob, don't post and edit, use a second window to get it all in 1 post before posting.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Grrrooooaaaaaannnnn!!!!!

(tbontob breaks down and cries like a baby)

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

I wonder if these Posts will be deleted too? I have never seen a thread that has gone off the original topic moderated like this before on Shrapnel. Even the few flames weren't deleted, just locked down. Why is this thread treated differently? More heated debates were allowed to continue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What do you mean by locked down? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

There have been a few threads that turned into flames, and those were locked down (no more Posts were allowed).

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

I usually type my entire message in Notepad first, including the quotes etc, and then when I've finished composing it, I cut and paste it into the reply box.

There were a few threads which were deleted completely because they discussed things like cheating, hacking the game etc.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Yes, and those Posts should be removed, because they discuss highly illegal activities. But, comparing them to what was discussed in this thread is not even possible, they are so far apart.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Even though I'm as guilty as anyone of making this thread heated, I think just as you never talk politics and religion at the dinner table this forum is probably not the best place for these types of threads.

EDIT: That's a good topic for debate

[ January 26, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Censorship = Evil

What more can I say, that that little line doesn't tell you? I personally do not appreciate my benign Posts from being deleted with no warning or no explanation.

[ January 26, 2003, 21:22: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes.

In my view, the discussions were impassioned rather than heated.

On my part there is no rancor or resentment against anyone who has a view which differ from mine.

To paraphrase Voltaire, "I may not agree with what a person says, but I will defend his right to say it."

Actually Voltaire is quoted as saying "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

But this sentance also does not appear to be Voltair's but was was a paraphrase from a letter from Voltaire to Helvetius which she claims was "Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

I'm curious to what happened as well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I don't think it was heated at all and I was learning a lot about different political views!

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My feelings exactly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would be nice if the person who deleted the postings would return them.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Hopefully we will receive an explanation soon....

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

If anything, the whole thread should have been moved to an OT forum. There are a lot of threads cluttering up this board that have nothing to do with the game, and this is the game forum. Deleting the Posts was a bad move (if the admin did it, and it was not a hack atack). Moving it and several other threads to OT would not be. imho.

The thread was a little warm, but thats ok. Political discussions usually are. It was not a flame fest, which "might" merit deltetion, or better yet, a "lock down" and a private note from the admin to the flamers to quit that practice or face banning (temp or perm).

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

No, moving them would be bad, because they have never been moved like that in the 3 or so years this forum has been up. To start doing so now would be wrong.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Couslee does have a good point.

If it was the administrator that deleted the Posts, a warning would be appropriate.

Then if the transgressions continues (whatever it may have been), then affirmative action could be taken as the warning was ignored.

But because the postings were occasionally impassioned but in no way hostile or heated, my feelings are that we have a hacker in our midst.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

And then......

Maybe the president disapproved of the postings and by "executive order" ordered their removal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With that kind of logic, slavery would still be common. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

LOL tbontob. never know. OR, it could have been an Al Queda attack on Americans over the internet. We now have sufficient reason to go bomb Iraq. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ January 26, 2003, 23:35: Message edited by: couslee ]

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With that kind of logic, slavery would still be common. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... no, not at all. Equating how a forum is run to slavery is illogical. There is no valid basis of comparison.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Yea this is a bad precident in this forum... I would like it to be explained... As it has never happened before... And I hope it does not happen again.

We are an open group of posters who like to chat and chat and chat....

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

It wasn't me. I'd like to know who did it as well. Whoever did it is not following the guidlines for moderating that Richard set down when he gave us all this responsibility.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And chat and chat and chat and chat and chat... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

*Krsqk makes sure to click the Add Reply button only a single time, so as not to provoke the ire of Fyron* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

Will George W. Bush continue the family tradition?

Puke, what do you think?

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nor me. The only deletion I made here was a double-post.

Re: OT: Rating the President
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What, the "Thank you, minister-san, for this wonderful *BLEEAAUGHK*" tradition? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif *Thinks this tradition is muy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif *