Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

The damage resistance on Armor III is 40Kt, I believe. Two warheads in a small mine do 100 damage each. Roughly speaking, how many mines (as described above) will it take to kill a typical destroyer with, say, 10 Armor III sections on it?

And any explanation of how this is figured is welcome.

Tks in advance!

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

Mines: Armour defends against mines, shields do not.

To work out how many mines are needed to kill a ship (disregarding sweepers for now) add up all the damage points inflicted by the mines (ie 2 warheads at 100kt each =200 kt per mine) and then add up all the damege points on the ship (you can see this total. in the designs window, I think.

Take one from the other. Boom.

Note that in early Versions of the game (if you haven't got Gold), no more than one mine's worth of damage could be applied to any one component, making colony ships nigh-invulnerable.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

Also note that if a mine hits a ship, it ONLY hits that ship. A large mine with four warheads will waste the other three warheads if the first one kills the target.

This also means that even if your enemy doesn't have minesweepers, a fleet of more than 100 ships will get through. Well, PARTS of it will get through.

Sweepers are simple. They work before the mines blow, and remove the number of mines listed. Add up the sweeper components and then multiply by the number of mines swept to find how many mines a ship or fleet can sweep.

Phoenix-D

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info on shields -vs- mines. However, I looked for ANYTHING on the design window and I just don't see it. Maybe I'm blind or stupid.

I just wish someone could/would explain how damage inflicted relates to damage resistance. One is referred to as doing "xx" amount of damage (at various ranges). And components are rated as having 'xx' Kt amount of damage resistance. So, how does points of damage relate to kilotons of damage resistance?

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

'xx' Kt amount of damage resistance means 'xx' hitpoints.

Once the damage inflicted exceeds the hitpoints/resistance, the component is destroyed.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

Hulls have no hitpoints, every component has a damage rating. For most things, that matches kt of space taken up. Armor is an example of something with more damage resistance per kt. Cargo bays have less resistance, they get shot up pretty bad whenever damage is taken

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, doesn't that pretty much render armor useless? After all, lots of weapons do much more than 40 hit points (= 40 Kt of damage resistance). That means one hit from a Polaron V (H mount) could wipe 3 of them in one shot.

So, is armor worth it?

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, doesn't that pretty much render armor useless? After all, lots of weapons do much more than 40 hit points (= 40 Kt of damage resistance). That means one hit from a Polaron V (H mount) could wipe 3 of them in one shot.

So, is armor worth it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">one ship, one armor 3, point blank range, against an enemy ship with 2 or 3, level 5, heavy mount Polaron beams, enemy fires first ... then no, it isn't.

Change the above situation to make armor more useful.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, doesn't that pretty much render armor useless? After all, lots of weapons do much more than 40 hit points (= 40 Kt of damage resistance). That means one hit from a Polaron V (H mount) could wipe 3 of them in one shot.

So, is armor worth it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">one ship, one armor 3, point blank range, against an enemy ship with 2 or 3, level 5, heavy mount Polaron beams, enemy fires first ... then no, it isn't.

Change the above situation to make armor more useful.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any suggestions on how to change the above situation? Attacking, as I understand it, lets me fire first, but that also depends on who moves within range of whom, first.

I've tried putting both types of shields on one ship, but when you do that, the program seems to not work correctly. Meaning, it seems to treat all the shields the same kind. 'Course, I could be wrong.

Thanks for the reply.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1) Don't mix shields types. Phased + normal = normal.
2) The defender moves/fires first, be the defender and rip his ship apart before he hits.
3) Put more than 1 piece of armor on a ship.
4) Stay at max range where the beam does less damage
5) Out gun the enemy. Out number the enemy.
6) Out tech the enemy -- he has polaron beams 5, what have you been researching all this time.

[ January 21, 2003, 01:40: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

Arkon, you missed the 'James T. Kirk' option... reprogram the simulation! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We've had many discussions of game balance on these Boards, and the change in the relative power of weapons from SE III to SE IV has been mentioned many times as a problem. You could increase the strength of armor (though you still are right that you ought to have more than one piece of armor on a ship), or you could decrease the power of weapons.

Now, if you're playing a PBW game with the stock files then you're stuck with those options already listed... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 21, 2003, 02:28: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Q: Do you only put 1 shield generator on your ships?

Of course not!
Plus, you can fit 4 armor components in the space of 1 shield generator, and 10-20 armor if you use it exclusively. 400-800 hitpoints isn't anything to scoff at.

Now see how effective it is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Q: Do you only put 1 shield generator on your ships?

Of course not!
Plus, you can fit 4 armor components in the space of 1 shield generator, and 10-20 armor if you use it exclusively. 400-800 hitpoints isn't anything to scoff at.

Now see how effective it is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's true...but, assuming some sort of success in the battle (with, say, 3 or 4 high-end phased shield generators), if your shields held off the shots, it needs no repair. On the other hand, it's not much fun repairing 12 or 16 armor components. Nor fast.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

"That's true...but, assuming some sort of success in the battle (with, say, 3 or 4 high-end phased shield generators), if your shields held off the shots, it needs no repair. On the other hand, it's not much fun repairing 12 or 16 armor components. Nor fast"

But armor is cheaper, can be researched MUCH faster, and the weapons that skip it are racial and fairly weak. And unlike shields armor helps against mines.

EDIT: also, there is no "armor killing" component, and no weapon gets bonuses against armor (like the quad to shields Time Distortion Burst, or the Shield Depleter)

Phoenix-D

[ January 22, 2003, 01:21: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No matter what your defenses, 90% of the time you can expect maybe 1 or 2 cripples in your entire fleet. The rest will be undamaged, or vaporized.

Even if you just fired on and destroyed the cripples, or left them to limp home, your fleet would not be significantly diminished.
Adding a single repair ship will usually fix all battle damage by the next turn, too.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

Yeah, Suicide and Phoenix, I guess it's this sort of debate and multiple options that make the game as good as it is.

Two kinds of shields, various armor (although I rarely use that "speckled" armor), and a multitude of weapon types to consider, mines notwithstanding.

Thanks for all the responses! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

Not to mention the other benefit of the armor. it gets hit first (unless they armor skipping weapons). I would rather have to repair 200kt worth of armor, than not be able to get out of their weapon range and have to build a new ship. And maybe it's just me, but it certainly seems like the shield depleters are a lot more accurate than the weapons that damage armor. Personally, I think it's the shields that are over powered and not the armor being under powered.

It's just my opinion so far. being my first game, I have not seen all the components in action yet. The funniest one, was after a battle with the Phong, and that &%$@# weapon they have, had a ship that the ONLY component to survive the battle was my stealth armor. Had that been a shield component, it probably would have been destroyed. The great one HP escape.

Re: Mine Damage: How Does It Work?
 

something relevant I noticed....
If you click on an enemy ship, it shows the KT for it. But that may not be the total damage resistance. IE:
Enemy has 4 1000kt ships.
you launch five 900 damage mines to protect a planet from the attack.
because of armor and other components, the AI actually has 1400 damage resistance per ship.
result, they punch through and kick your hiney.
afterwards, you spend a lot of time looking around for info and find the easiest way to get the true rating is with the combat simulator.

Just a guess
(baloney, I got my bum wupped)