Re: I hate a cheat
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is totally bizarre. Are you sure you're looking at the correct planet, and it has really been < 1 turn?
Seriously, this type of misunderstanding happens often.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, giving the AI a bonus at startup is essentially a cheat, you give it 2X, 3X, or 5X the resource, research and intel income. But they shouldn't alter construction rate. This is the stock Phong, right? 'Tho I've never altered racial chateristics to get 1 turn resupply depots either.

Re: I hate a cheat
 

when I set up the game, I gave the AI "high" bonus. But even if that affected construction, the facility should not have been built in the same turn as colonization. Yes, it's the stock Phong. I have only made a couple of minor changes to the text file, none of which would apply to this. (and not talking about the AI txt files either.)

They had owned this planet once before. Could there be left over facilities? i don't think so.

They came through the wormhole and colonized, I attacked.they had been comming through the worm hole before and not making it as far at the lower planets (wormhole at top of system). thats why my fleet was sitting there. And I am sure the planet was not colonized at the end of the previous turn (nor had it been colonized)

[ January 18, 2003, 13:40: Message edited by: couslee ]

Re: I hate a cheat
 

couslee, the only question here is whether or not the Phong in your game have sufficent build speed to get a resupply depot in one turn. If they do then it is perfectly reasonable that the resupply depot would be built by the time you got there. Construction occurs at the end of the turn. Being that this is a single player, turn-based game, the AI ship moved to the planet, the colony was established, and the supply depot put in the queue during the turn. The construction would have occured at the end of that turn, and if completed in 1 turn would be done befor you got there. That part is not cheating. It would be impossible in a simultaneous turn game however, becasue he wouldn't have access to the build queue right away.

That being said I have never heard of the AI bonuses giving advantages in construction speed. Although I suppose it's possible. Did you modify the Phong empire setup before the game? How many racial points? In a 5000 point game the stock Phong get an extra 20% to construction rate.

And how much population did they have on the colony. If the colonizer had advanced cargo comps, or if it was a larger hull size they could have had extra population which would have resulted in higher than normal build rates.

Geoschmo

Re: I hate a cheat
 

The AI does not cheat. Never. Trust me, I can't count the hours I have watched it.

Re: I hate a cheat
 

The AI does have a construction bonus as with production and research.
Geo , I am surprised you didn't know that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .
Other than that, what Geo described (construction at end of turn in a turn based game) is correct. The AI didn't cheat.

Rollo

[ January 18, 2003, 17:28: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: I hate a cheat
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't play against the AI all that much in the begining, and haven't at all in a long time. Even then it's hard to tell what exactly the bonus is the AI has. I just assumed it was only for resource production, not construction.

Geoschmo

Re: I hate a cheat
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't play against the AI all that much in the begining, and haven't at all in a long time. Even then it's hard to tell what exactly the bonus is the AI has. I just assumed it was only for resource production, not construction.

Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yikes, thats a new one on me. I had no clue.

When people notice the most agressive AI's take maintenance reduction -- I always wondered if linking dieferent levels of maintenance reduction to the AI bonus would serve the AI better -- who knows that may already be happening. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ January 18, 2003, 18:37: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: I hate a cheat
 

I hate to bring this up, but from the FAQ:

1.4.1 AI bonuses applies to intelligence, research and resources, exist in x2, x3 and x5. Construction rates: Low x1.5, medium x2, high x3 (Suicide Junkie, Rexxx)

Slick

Re: I hate a cheat
 

Couslee, it is not cheating. You gave them that bonus at game startup. It would only be cheating if you had no control over it. But even with those bonuses, the AIs still aren't very good opponents at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: I hate a cheat
 

That's what the "Computer Player Bonus" settings do when you set up a new game. Not "Difficulty", but "Bonus". If you don't want the AI to have a bonus, set it to "None," which is the default. It doesn't get an advantage unless the player gives it one.

PvK

Re: I hate a cheat
 

yes, it's the stock Phong. I did select the highest setting for the AI, but had no idea those would make one turn resupply possible.

my race has +25%, plus the PRT for another 25%, and with population bonuses I get a decent construction rate, and it still hits below 6k per (5400).

the AI population on this new planet was only 2m. the colony ship was nearly empty.
Even if the AI doubled the construction rate in race setting would it be able to have 6k rate on a new planet? no ship yard? no population bonus?

I agree the AI needs all the help it can get but this seems funky to me, which is why I posted the topic.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, in retrospect, I guess it could with the 3x rate. when I plop a colony down, I get 2k, so IF the Phong had the same settings I do, 3x for high bonus would make one turn RD. it just caught me off guard.

so they not only get the 5k points to spend but extra bouns on top of that too? Perhaps I was viewing the AI bonus selection in an incorrect light. Aside from that.

Like I said before. I just want to understand the game mechanics, too an extent, without memorizing 5k lines of text.

Having the AI be able to build these in one turn is just as much a benefit for me as them, if I decide to capture planets instead of glassing them. If they can have such a construction rate, they would be better served building a WP instead.

side note. it's 2407.5, and I just hit MEE threshold. I haven't even met half the races yet. lol

Re: I hate a cheat
 

Couslee, I'm with you regarding AI cheating: I hate it. MMs AIs however don't cheat. A very nice point. It was just the Bonus you gave them. Actually, there is a bug with the bonuses that prevent the Ai from fully exploit them. they are not aware that they get x2 (or more) resources and spent resources just as if they had no bonus at all. This is fixed in the next patch so prepare for though matches if you chose bonus.

I hate a cheat
 

The Phong pop a colony ship through the wormhole, and colonize a planet. I happen to have a fleet right there, so I detach a bomber and head over to remove him from his newly acquired planet. They have not had this planet for one full turn even.

What do I find?
2m population, which is fine, glad to see the AI is smart enough to not use full colonizers.
and a resupply depot..... HUH?

My race is strong on construction and I can only build a 6k facility in 3 turns (2 with a SY). I colonize at 2k per. there is NO WAY the AI could have built that in 0 turns.

granted, I could view it as a bonus spot and capture the planet and save the facility cost, or say "the AI needs all the helpo it can get" but how I handle the invasion is irrelevant. I hate a cheating AI. I read the AI didn't do that(cheat) in SE4g. who ever wrote that was "mistaken". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

what other cheats can I look forward to?

Re: I hate a cheat
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I beg to differ on this one. Not that I call it cheating, and the AI needs all the help it can get, but the AI is capable of 2 things (that I can recall) that humans are not.
1)The AI can see planetary defenses with out visiting a planet. (ie. they know you have multiple weapons platforms on a particular planet and will not attack it until their forces can defeat it)
2)The AI can give a "join x fleet" order and we have to stop the fleet for any ship to catch up. This particular one bugs me as we should be able to give a "join x fleet" order if it is possible (which it obviously is)

Re: I hate a cheat
 

its not that the AI can give a join fleet order, its that the AI behaves as if its playing a sequential game, even in simultanious games. at least, thats how i understand it.

Re: I hate a cheat
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe that is correct. There was a bug early on in SE4 where the AI could respond to a communication the turn after you sent it, instead of having to wait till the turn after like a human player would. This sounds like the AI is playing sequentially, except where the code forces it to act simultaneously.

Geoschmo