New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

What new racial tech traits would you want to see in a SE4 mod?

[ January 20, 2003, 07:46: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

What I would like would be a "true" mechanoid race. The trait as it is now gives you only protection against plagues, which is not a big deal. A mechanoid race like I see it, could additionally colonize all atmospheres and their ships would not need life support/crew quarters.
Of course this would be a very expensive racial trait (3000 points or more).

[ January 19, 2003, 06:00: Message edited by: Q ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Already kinda added that to my mod. Not the colonizing thing, but the other part. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

They get:

Mechanoid Technology
Level 1-3) Mechanoid Bridge I-III (10 kt, repairs 1-3 comps per turn, has Psychic Cloaking) maybe should have LS and CQ built in?

1-3) Mechanoid Immunity Lab I-III (level 3-5 plague prevention facility)

1-3) Mechanoid Labor Force I-III (5-15% system robotoid factory)

4-6) Effeciency Algorithm I-III (20kt, 10, 12, 15% combat to hit bonus, stacks with Combat Sensors)

4-6 + 4-6 Computers) Programing Language Research Computer I-III (System Computer Complex with +5% bonus).

And, the trait costs 1500 points. What do you think?

[ January 19, 2003, 07:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

perhaps a race with teleporting technology, they do not move normal, they jump. telporting boarding parties on an enemy ships, or teleporting troops on enemy planets, no need to get near the targets.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

That would be awesome, but it won't work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif There is no possibility of transporters in se4.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good ideas!
If you give a component bridge, life support and crew quarters abilities together the AI designs will be suboptimal because he will not consider the combined abilities (at least 3 identical components on each ship even if one would be sufficient).
But you may give them a cheaper special master computer component (right from the start, no research needed), bacause after the next patch the AI will use them.
For the colonizing: a universal colony module and a cheaper and faster atmosphere converter.
The racial cost if you give all that should then be much higher IMO, as I said at least 3000 points. But then this could be quite a strong AI race. For a human player it might be too much benefit.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

There are already some Universal Colony Modules in the normal tech tree (and hybrids, that colonize 2 types). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I am trying to keep the cost at 1500.

AIs are of secondary concern to me (esp. as I don't like playing with AIs in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

[ January 19, 2003, 09:27: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

How much would someone pay for a trait called Military Strategists?

In the mod, all training facilites are system training, and train at a rate of 1 per turn. The max training is 10% (5 levels, 2 per level). Military Strategists would possibly train at a rate of 2 per turn, with a +2% max training cap. Does 500 points seem too much, too little, or just right for this trait?

Oh... I also changed the costs of the Aggressiveness and Defensiveness traits. They cost the same:

Characteristic Aggressiveness Max Pct := 125
Characteristic Aggressiveness Min Pct := 75
Characteristic Aggressiveness Pct Cost := 100
Characteristic Aggressiveness Threshold := 5
Characteristic Aggressiveness Threshhold Pct Cost Pos := 200
Characteristic Aggressiveness Threshhold Pct Cost Neg := 25

[ January 19, 2003, 22:22: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here's another thought: close Fleet Training out from normal races. Give the Strategists their 2%/max10% Ship training .. and 1%/max10% FLEET training.

That'd be worth 500 IMO. Maybe as much as 750.

If you stick with both training types all the time, then 500 cost seems okay for faster training ... though 750 to pay for a cap of 15% (and that 2% per turn) counds intriguing as well.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Hmm... maybe I could have Master Strategists that does:

max fleet training 15%, 2% per turn

And then Master Tacticians that does:

max ship training 15%, 2% per turn

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe 350 apiece for those. 400, tops. 8)

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Wait... max normal Fleet Training Facility is 5%...

I need an idea for a good tech name for the Master Strategists. Advanced Strategies sounds kinda lame. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 19, 2003, 22:45: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Unless someone gives me any better ideas, I am going to go with:

Advanced Strategic Planning

Advanced Tactical Manuevers

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've got a FEW, but I'm using 'em for Exodus. 8)

Rather than straight up racial technologies, what about some of the "minor traits" like SJ put in P&N? Like Living Ships or the like?

[Edit]

Acutally, to heck with it, here're a few of the things I'm thinking of for Exodus:

Advanced Terraforming (cheaper, faster, lower-research-cost climate, value, and atmosphere modifying toys. Even perhaps a slow-as-molasses-on-a-cold-day atmosphere converter to START with -- 30 to 40 turns,maybe?).

Advanced Fighters (fighter use on steroids; better fighter hullss, nicer fighter components, better launch bays, a couple extra carrier hulls)

Advanced Missiles (as AdvFighters is to fighters, this is to missiles ... and PDC)

Megascalar Engineers (masters of all that is bigger-than-BIG)

Microscalar engineers (unmatched makers of small things -- units, multi-purpose components (a combined LS/CQ component, for example)).

.....

Additionally, you could do for gorund troops, what I suggest above for missiles / fighters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not so much "stuff noone else can do at all" ... but "stuff you do BETTER than anyone else, but not truly DIFFERENTLY". To compare to Stock SE4/G ... perhaps instead of having Small Weapons run form 1 to 3 ... maybe the Advanced Fighter fellow has a 4 and 5 level of each one.

Perhaps the Advanced Missile guy gets to advance beyond the nomral limits of the CSM and the like (RoF 2 CSMs, or else Armored CSMs, or maybe both but not at the same TIME, and so on).

Oh, one thing: one of the things I like best about P&N is, the CROSSOVER TOYS. *hint, hint*

[ January 19, 2003, 12:20: Message edited by: Pax ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

{looks at Stars! and MOO2 for inspiration}

Hyper-Expansionists - Gets a modified colony ship hull that can carry 7 engines (fastest thing in space!), and cheaper colony components; enhanced population growth facilities (like Organic)

Stealth Masters - alternate cloaking devices which cost less research and resources; stealth armor that provides level 2 and 3 cloaking; modified base hulls with level 1 built-in Active-EM cloak

Warlords - muchos advanced weapons and big ships!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif also a maintenance reducing facility like the Crystalline Restructuring Plant, and training facilities... this one should be expensive! (since I combined Stars! "War Mongers" with MOO2's "Warlord")

Inner Strength - better armor, shields, repair, minesweepers

Space Demolitionists - hyper-advanced mines & warheads; mines get built-in long range scanners/anticloak scanners

Interstellar Traveller - cheaper open/close warp points components; open/close warp points facilities (if such things are possible); enhanced supply components & cheaper resupply depots

Space Miners - greatly enhanced remote mining (such that it's more profitable to remote mine than to mine normally)

Master Spies - better intel facilities/ops, small ships get built-in scanner and/or cloak

Ramscoop Engines - can build Ramscoop engines, which move very slow but use no supply

Recyclers - gets advanced recycling facilities right off the bat

Alchemists - gets resource converters right off the bat

Bleeding Edge Technology - would require duplicates of ALL other techs, but it would be cool - new techs initially cost double, but they
improve faster

Cybernetic – Better repair components; healing armor

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Actually, I prefer that technology not be allocated as a rigid racial 'trait' that no one else can possibly understand. It's completely illogical and unrealistic. If research can be designed differently for SE V we could have different areas of research needing different kinds of research points, sort of like components need various amounts of the three basic resources. Then races/species could have different aptitudes for different kinds of research just as they do for different types of resource production. If you are an 'Organic Technology' race your aptititude in Organic Manipulation research could be ten times better than a race which is not of that type. BUT... it would still be possible for a non-specialized race to research the technology. Which is only reasonable.

Now, considering the question more literally, I do have some ideas for more interesting 'racial traits' in SE V, and some changes for the existing traits...

Emotionless should include immunity to Ship Insurrection and Puppet Political Parties if it doesn't already. How do you 'incite' an emotionless people to rebellion?

Mechanoids should be immune to special Psychic weapons -- Mental Flailer and Allegiance Converter. If they are machines, how does a "psychic" attack affect them?

Hardy Industrialists should be able to build ships at any planet without a special space yard. The slight increase in production speed is a joke for 1000 points.

New Traits:

*'Non-respiratory' : This is a race that does not need to breathe, like Silicoids in MOO, and so treats all atmospheres the same -- even None! They would thrive the same in allatmospheres. Other planet conditions (like gravity or radiation) could still affect them, though. Should probably be as expensive as "Emotionless" since it's another sort of immunity.

* "Xenophobe" : Races that are "Xenophobes" would have very limited diplomacy options due to extreme hatred/fear of anyone not like themselves, but would get some racial points back to use elsewhere. (Sergetti for example)

* 'Anarchist' racial trait -- ability to do without "Seat of Government" (assuming this is implemented in SE V!) and not suffer the usual penalties. (XiChung? Norak because of religious trait?)

* 'Fragile' : A race that is so physically delicate that it cannot engage in ground combat at all. Not able to use troops, and no militia appear to defend planets when invaded. If enemy can land troops on the planet, invasion is automatically successful. Returns lots of racial points to be used on something else. (The Amon Krie are good candidates for this. How do worms operate battlemechs?)

* 'Resistant to Infiltration' - Several types of races are considered to be 'naturally' resistant to infiltration. A single specific trait should be created for this. Then, a psychic race or a 'hive-mind' race that should be hard to use any sort of intel projects against can choose it and have better 'thematic' consistency.

Or perhaps this could be implemented as a feature of some other racial traits, like 'Hive Mind' and/or 'Psychic'.

[ January 20, 2003, 03:37: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That depends on what the "technology" represents. If it is strictly technology, then what you say is correct. But if it is not necessarily a "technology", but more like a cultural trait, or something that represents an evolutionary step, it really would not be useable by other races. Races that have no aptitude what-so-ever for Psychic abilities would not be able to develop Psychic "technologies". Races that are not very spiritual would not be able to develop Religious "technologies". The same goes for Temporal. Crystalline and Organic are harder to justify, but it can be done. Think of those "technologies" more as features of the race, not actual "technologies".

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

I guess I have to break net-etiquette again and bump another thread without adding any content.

Any new ideas people?

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd probably still take this trait, even if it cost 1500. +25% construction is a big bonus...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cool idea, you could implement it sort of by modding in a cheap, super-efficient Atmosphere Converter. I would say it's worth well over 3000 points, though... Probably more like 10,000 points.. heh

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All cool ideas, hopefully something you could do in SE5...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Might be a neat idea to make an intel-specialist race by reducing the effectiveness of (or removing) some of the more deadly intel projects (eg, food poisoning, communication mimics) for everyone else, and then make them more effective (or available) for someone who chose this racial trait.
[/QB][/quote]

spoon

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Especially when you have a 120 construction trait already.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Gravity Tech Tree is something i would like to see.
Generally large weapons which do incredible damage but only at low range. Shield generator/armor/on-hit-regen-shield hybrid (gravity force field armor). Early stellar manip.
Graviton beams. (similar to APB, maybe a couple of differences like higher damage and higher dispersion)

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

oh yes, annihilator - 30 ROF range 2, does enough damage to blow anything but heavily armored and shielded DN and higher. Astronomical cost and size.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

P&N has Gravity Tech. Have you seen it?

I think maybe those mechanoids need a master comp-only weapon or 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Taera: See Pirates & Nomads, Advanced Gravitic Manipulation.

Graviton Flux Cannons dish out mucho damage by swirling planetary gravity around to shred an enemy, but have a harsh minimum range to "prevent damaging the planet itself". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Note: They are also only available on planets (IE: weapon platforms)

[ January 24, 2003, 03:24: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Who made the gravity tech for P&N? I might have to borrow it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

I'd like a to see a "hive mentality" trait in proportions (but it could probably be changed to work with other mods)

Becasue they live in extremely dense, communal conditions, hive species would get:
-Higher density (ie higher output) cities and cultural centres
-Smaller crew quarters, boarding parties and security stations
-more efficient counter-intel?
-proabbly more stuff I can't think of right now.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Not sure what sort of racial trait this would go with, but the missiles which never run out of range are really cool. You do this by including a twenty-first damage entry. They're only effective if the missiles are already max range; they do range 20 damage for all the extra range. Before my HD got wiped, I included these in my mod--it was really annoying to have to include all that PDC instead of missile dancing.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

ER-Missiles go to Advanced Propulsion Techinques http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
As for Hive Mentality, i can design this one (my fav style). It would be Symbiotic race though. Think of Zerg.

And thanks, i'll check P&N a lil later

[ January 24, 2003, 18:05: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

I had said this on the #se4 channel and I bet its been done before, but a "Radioactives" racial tech similar to the Organic seems like an obvious one.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

not realy, what would it do?

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why not just make it a super-advanced storage type trait?

More facilities, more cargo, much simpler to mod.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">GOD those are glorious toys, the GFC's. One with normal mounting, and one with the biggets mount, on a Large WPlatform ... 5 or 10 of those will REALLY do some hurting to the enemy as they close.

Add an ER repulsor beam (biggest mount), and you can keep throwing them BACK into range of the GFC.

Whee!

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

One racial tech that I'm testing out right now is simply called Technocrat.

It's basically advanced designs of existing techs and some ne wtechs thrown in. I included things like advanced sensors, meson beams, null-space projectors, missiles, etc. The new techs are things like nanotech [gives access to tech areas like nano-spaceyards, nano armor (high structure armor that eventually allows research into regenerative nano armor, emmissive nano armor, and nano reactive sheath - a combination of the previous two), and applied nanotech (30kt repair components that reduce maintainance)], planetary defense grids (planetary shielding), and spatial ship design (fitting dreanaught classed components into a fighter hull, sort of a tardis like effect, but with bonuses of +10 to attack and +20-30 to defense so that with ship and fleet training it would be equivalent to the appropriate fighter. Also added combat move to hull to be fighter equivalent).

All the advanced techs have prodigious tech requirements and high costs (usually about 100k or more). Even with that I boosted the racial cost to 2500 to balance things out. Also, virtually all the techs are capturable/stealable/tradable.

I also added some compact prototype component mounts. Those for ships and bases available with applied research 2, and those for sats/wp's/drones available at research 3.

Still working with it though.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

Theres a lot of tech you could associate with a "radioactive" race. Radation weapons, engines, shields, sensors. The main idea I was thinking of is that their components use a lot more radioactives than minerals or organics.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

How about something along the lines of the Gaians in SMAC, who capture mind worms and turn them into infantry units? You could allow an organic race to capture native organisms and use them for planet defense.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

You can't really have native organisms in se4. Also, you can't customize how the militia calculations work for each race; it is the same for all.

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

hey Fyron, i've checked P&N's gravity tech tree. While its nice i'd like to have something more... gravitational http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: New Racial Tech Traits Ideas
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif So, propose more gravitational stuff.