learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

i know its not possible to learn Racial Techs but is it possible to steal/analyze the techs gained from ancient ruins-unique from other races.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

you can steal/analyze anything that is in your research tree.
Essentially those technologies are not on your tree but they do not have any special settings needed (like racial tech) so i presume you can trade/steal them. Im not sure though, some testing would be good.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

Yes. You can give 'unique' ruins techs to other races, so they can also be stolen. (Go to the 'gift' screen under diplomacy and you can find any unique ruins techs you posses in the technology list.)

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

You can gift them, you can analyse them, and you can steal the plans, but they will not be understood!

Racial and Ruins are unique techs that can only be experienced firsthand!

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

No, you can't get unique tech in any other way than finding it yourself. It cannot be traded or analysed.
Note that normal tech (as in non-racial and non-ruin tech) can be obtained be analyzing even if you don't have the tech requirement to research it. Example: if you don't have Chemistry, you can still analyze ships to get armor.

Rollo

PS (edit): yes, actually what SJ said is technically more correct. They can be traded, but won't be understood. So in practice they can't be traded http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[ January 27, 2003, 02:16: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

I see the Adamant Mod has a "Xenotrekbabble" field (or something like that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) which is required to understand ruins techs. Does that mean some of these techs might have lower quality Versions which are able to be traded/gifted/stolen/analyzed?

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

ok. i know it was mentioned in another thread on how to make it so racial techs can be learned, sort of, by making a 2nd set of techs that dont require the racial tech. i dont remember the thread. how does that work again?

edit. how do you make it so the techs can be analyzed but the new one cannot be learned unless analyzed/stolen from a racial tech.

[ January 27, 2003, 03:25: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

Given:
Tech A is a racial tech
Tech B is NOT a racial tech, and requires Tech A level X
Tech C is NOT a racial tech, and requires Tech B level Y.

Results:
A race without the racial tech can NEVER get ANY levels in A.
A race without the racial tech can never RESEARCH levels in B, but CAN steal them.
A race without the racial tech CAN research Tech C once they have stolen Y levels of B.

[ January 27, 2003, 03:27: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

thanks. so it actually would require 3 Versions of tech.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

next question. is it possible to make random events give you tech levels.
examples.
Eureka...you get a lucky break on a research project and finish early.

Lucky Find...you stumble across an ancient derelict and discover new tech or improved levels of current tech. (without having to use ruins)

like they had on moo2.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

Not yet. A 'technology event' is something we've been requesting.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

ISTR that the Events and Intelprojects files used the same things. In that case, since you can steal a tech area, I'd think you could have an event give you one. Downside: since you're not choosing who it's against, and you're not selecting the desired tech, you're likely to "learn" something you already know. You can search for "events intelligence" or something like that for more info.

[Edit]I was going to be nice and search for the link and post it for you, but the search engine seems to be set on "slower than the 180-year itch" mode. Sorry.

[ January 27, 2003, 04:35: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SJ, I am a bit confused about this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Can you give me examples of a racial tech becoming non-racial tech?

That is of a non-racial tech B which is dependant upon a racial tech A.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, we're almost there in the standard game. Consider, you take the psychic racial trait. You can, at the start of a game research psychic studies. That gets you no component or facility, just lets you research psychic weapons and psychic technology.

If you put in a filler tech between psychic studies, and remove the racial requirement from the filler tech, psychic weapons, and psychic technology, and leave it in for the psychic studies, you have what SJ described.

I always though MM put all those research levels in to cripple the racial, make the waste research in the early game, now I realize it may be just to make what SJ described possible.

[ January 27, 2003, 14:22: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"archaeology" is not trek babble. Adamant mod ruins give you a unique tech that lets you research another tech area that gives stuff. The second tech area is not unique, so it is tradeable, but can only be researched further if you have the ruins tech.

[ January 27, 2003, 22:52: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, we're almost there in the standard game. Consider, you take the psychic racial trait. You can, at the start of a game research psychic studies. That gets you no component or facility, just lets you research psychic weapons and psychic technology.

If you put in a filler tech between psychic studies, and remove the racial requirement from the filler tech, psychic weapons, and psychic technology, and leave it in for the psychic studies, you have what SJ described.

I always though MM put all those research levels in to cripple the racial, make the waste research in the early game, now I realize it may be just to make what SJ described possible.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Arckon, I don't know if I am less confused or more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Say player Q is psychic and player R is not

Player Q researches psychic studies, which gives nothing except the ability to "research psychic weapons and psychic technology." That's Tech A, right?

I think, I got you that far.

Then Q must research what you call "filler tech". Now, filler tech can be researched by anyone providing they have psychic studies.

But no one can have psychic studies except the psychic race which effectively limits researching filler tech to the psychic race (Player Q in this case).

Right so far?

But because tech B is not "psychic", once it is researched by Q, it can be stolen by R.

And once stolen, R can use tech B as the basis on which to research tech C, because tech B and tech C is not psychic.

Did I get it right?

If so, what are levels X and Y all about?

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

X and Y are just variables. The specific tech level reqs don't matter for this.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

okaaaay, lets see if i get this correct.

tech A (Psychic Studies) would be researchable only by a race with racial trait of psychic and cannot be stolen/analyzed.

tech B (Psychic Weapons and Psychic Technology) would be researchable only by a race with racial trait of psychic but can be stolen/analyzed by other races.
edit>>>> the components in this Category however can only be created by someone with the psychic racial trait.

tech C (new components and facilies we design) would be researchable by anyone that has a certain level stolen/analyzed in PW and PT. thus allowing us to create less effective techs that all races can use once they steal/analyze racial (tech B) components.

[ January 27, 2003, 23:28: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

Looks right desdinova.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

praise from the Imperator himself. i take back the nasty thing i said about you in the any way to list enemy ships thread.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

How do you "steal" racial tech?

I set up a game for the purpose of experimenting with stealing racial tech.

It was set at all tech researched.

Analysing an alien ship with the tech component doesn't get racial tech.

Technological espionage with "Any technology" always seems to result in a "We are unable to find any worthwhile technology."

"Tech reports" may eventually disclose the current level of the racial tech but doesn't enable you to select that tech to steal. I am still left with "Any technology" which doesn't seem to get me anywhere.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

You can not own any tech area that has a racial area requirement that you do not have a trait for. So, you can not steal Organic technologies unless you have the Organic Manipulation racial trait.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

That is what I had originally thought.

Does this mean that SJ's post is wrong?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

No, SJ's post is correct. But, you have to _mod_ the tech areas to get them to be capturable. With SJ's system, the tech areas B and C are _not_ racial tech areas. They do not have a racial tech requirement. Only tech A does. In unmodded SE4, all Organic techs have the racial tech requirement.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

OK, that does clear things up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Racial tech can only be captured if it is specifically modded to do so.

In the standard SE4 1.84 game, there is no way to capture racial tech.

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

Almost. An Organic race can capture Organic techs from another Organic race that is more advanced in Organic techs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I got Tech A & B...but with tech C, you've lost me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Partially because I have no idea what PW & PT stand for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PW = Psychic Weapons
PT = Psychic Technology

Re: learning Ancient Ruin techs
 

For my Dark Nova 3 mod (avaliable at PBW) I've added 28 new unique ruin techs. They are all racial components and facilites. This makes it possible for a non-organic race, for example, to find organic armour or some other such. The idea was to increase the diversity of ship designs. In fact, the entire point of DN3 mod is increased diversity. The unique racial techs are essentially the same as the racial counterparts, with one slight difference. The unique one's are stronger than lv1 racial, but weaker than lv2. For the most part.

This mod also has the chance for ruins boosted from 3.5% per planet to 10.2% per planet.

The game hasn't begun yet so I'm not sure how it will all pan out. There are 2 spots left if anyone's interested.

The altered ruins are intergrated into the mod but if anyone wants the extract them, feel free.

(and if anyone needs some assistance to extract them you can email me bearclaw@telus.net )