Repair Priorities
 

I hate to disturb a topic that by all reading has settled before, but I must.

when you set your repair priorities, the repair function is suppose to do the following:
1> Checks ships for damaged priority components.
2> Tries to complete all repairs on that ship before rechecking the list.

Then perhaps someone can explain this. I have 3 ships in need of repair. Two have 2 damaged weapons each, one has 1 engine and 1 weapon damaged. The ship that has the engine damage is shown Last in the info box.

According to the above, the ship with engine damage should have been repaired fully first, then the other two repaired, with one of those still needing 1 component repaired. (5 repair planet based space yard only).

This however is not what happened. Both of the two ships that had two weapons damaged were repaired fully, and the one with engine/weapon damage only had the engine repaired.

So either the game repaired the engine first, then moved to the top of the list and started on weapons (meaning it does not try and repair all components once started on a specific ship), or it did repairs based on what ship was listed first and ignored the priorities list.

Has anyone else experienced this kind of weirdness? Or perhaps can offer some explaination to why it did that?

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Are you sure you have the items on the right side of the list in the repair priorities?

Re: Repair Priorities
 

yup. I don't have anything listed on the left side. I have vehicle control, engines, shields, armor, then weapons, then the rest

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Not having access to se4 here... is there some setting to use or ignore repair priorities?

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Hmmm... a quick and dirty test confirms that repair priorities are not followed. I attacked some ships with engine destroyers, shield destroyers and weapon destroyers. They attacked a fleet of ships:

Ship #1 - engines only destroyed,
Ship #2 - gutted, only other components remain
Ship #3 - just shields and weapons

Repair priorities left at default: Control, shields, engines, weapons.

They were repaired in numerical sequence, although #2 and #3 should have won out over #1, it was repaired first.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Did you look at the details of which components were repaired first on the ships that were receiving repairs?

IE:
First damaged control components were repaired, then shields then engines with weapons Last.
Then it moves on to the control components of ship #2, and so on?

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Another way to set up a test, is make a design with numerous obsolete components, then copy the design and replace each different component on a seperate design. kinda like retro-series tactics.

Then retro fit each ship in the order shown in the info window. This is kinda what I had done when i noticed this. The CSM ships had ion2 engines and CSM1 missles. the PDC ship had 5 ion3 engines and no other weapons. I didn't want to upgrade the engines, just the missles. And the PDC ship had a DUC added, and one ion3 engine. I had to remove a couple of PDCs to make it fit. The end result was 2 damaged components on each one.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I love cross Posts. lol listed in the order they were shown in the info window:
ship 1> Two CSM1 components upgraded to CSM2, no other upgrades
ship 2> exactly the same as ship one
ship 3> replaced two PDCs with one ion3 engine and one DUC.

post repair:
ship one and ship two fully repaired, ship three engine repaired and DUC still damaged.

Edit in:
this is with patch 1.84 installed.

[ February 01, 2003, 23:56: Message edited by: couslee ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

I strongly suspect the priorities are PER SHIP, not per sector. The first ship enters the spacedock (or whatever), and it's components are repaired per the priority list.

When it's done, if any repair capacity is left, the next ship comes in, and IT'S components get repaired in order ...

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Pax, but that is not the way it is suppose to work. say you have 5 ships, all needing various repairs. It is suppose to check all ships for repairs needed to ships control, if it finds one, then it is suppose to complete all the repairs on that ship. Once that is done, it is suppose to recheck the remaining damaged ships for damaged ship control components. if there are no more ships with damaged ship control components, the it is suppose to start over with repair priority #2 and follow the same pattern.
It is not doing this.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

That is an assumption of how it is supposed to work. An email to MM would clear this up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, no control components damaged, special weapon damage only

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Combat occured at a space station with a shipyard 1. No ships moved since before combat. This has been a test, this is only a test.

Doesn't really matter that much to me. I always fix engines and control first anyway. Maybe MM hardcoded it because it helps the AI vs engine destroyers?

[ February 02, 2003, 14:02: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

One thing I generally always change in the repair priorities is to raise Supply or Resupply near the top of the priority list, particularly when I have the quantum reactor. If I am retrofitting engines or adding the quantum reactor, I like to have it repaired first. That way, once the engines are up, the ship already has supplies it might not otherwise have, and can immediately head where it's needed, rather than limping along to a resupply depot.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like to put construction at the top !!! That way if there was damage to your repair base over your home world your repair bays and space yards would be repaired first so others may assist in the repair of the fleets... Also when defending a warp point etc. You may have 2 repair ships with one damaged, this way the damaged one gets repaired first. This is my top chices...
1: Construction~Reasons stated above
2: Vehical Control~For ship operations
3: Engines~ So ship may get out of harms way for a repair base.

In regards to supply bays and engines I think when repaired all fuil is lost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ February 02, 2003, 18:31: Message edited by: NAV ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

"In regards to supply bays and engines I think when repaired all fuil is lost "

Not exactly. If the max supply level of the ship goes below the current supply level (from damage to engines, supply pods, etc.), the excess supplies are lost. It only makes sense. Where would the ship store 3000 supplies if it had no supply bays (engine comps haev a supply bay built into them).

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, when the Supply componant or engine that once added to the existing supply total of that ship/fleet, if repaired in space, does NOT get its supply Points (fuel) back and will be lost... Assuming it was not out of supply prior to component damage.

However when repaired then fleeted, it will share the supplies of the fleet and thus refuiled.

[ February 03, 2003, 12:19: Message edited by: NAV ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

If Pax is right and priorities are per ship, not per sector, what would happen if one removes most components from priority list, leaving only essentials like control and engines. I suspect that now SY will repair these components on first ship, than moves to another. After repairing all these components it will start to repair stuff you removed from the repair list. I don't believe they will stay unrepaired when SY has nothing else to do.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Oleg, it is just that, a priority list. Just because something is not a priority does not mean it will never get done.

NAV:
Damaged components can't get their supplies back. If they did, it would do one of 2 things.
1) If all repaired comps were refilled with supplies, this would open the game to major exploiting.
2) If each component was tracked to see how many supplies it had been carrying, there would be a huge increase in memory usage in the game. Each component would have to have a separate memory unit tracking its supply levels. Consider that ships can easily have 30 different components on them (much more in some mods), and such a system becomes extremely unpractical. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Imperator Fyron we seem to be in agreements in all the Posts in regards to the supply issue:
----------

Original Post: February 02, 2003, 18:31

I like to put construction at the top !!! That way if there was damage to your repair base over your home world your repair bays and space yards would be repaired first so others may assist in the repair of the fleets... Also when defending a warp point etc. You may have 2 repair ships with one damaged, this way the damaged one gets repaired first. This is my top chices...
1: Construction~Reasons stated above
2: Vehical Control~For ship operations
3: Engines~ So ship may get out of harms way for a repair base.

In regards to supply bays and engines I think when repaired all fuel is lost.

[ February 06, 2003, 19:14: Message edited by: NAV ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did just yesterday.

Fleet goes through damaging warp point. In the order the ships were listed in the fleet:

Repair tender damage - 1 engine, 4 Armor III

Supply tender damage - Bridge, Life Support, Crew Quarters, 5 engines, 1 Armor III, 6 supply bays

Colonizer damage - colony module

Repair tender has a Repair Bay 2 on it. Priorities set to Vehicle Control, Engines, Armor, Colonizing, Cargo.

I expected the first turn's repairs would be the 3 Vehicle Controls and 2 engines on the supply tender.

What actually got fixed was the Vehicle Controls and 1 engine on the supply tender, plus the colony module. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

This was a solo game using v1.84 + Hypermaze 2.0 beta. (I don't think the mod is relevant to this, though.)

Re: Repair Priorities
 

This is wierd! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I did a couple of tests in 1.84 with a standard non-modded game.

I built a space yard ship with Space yard1 (3 repair ability).

Then I constructed 9 destroyers with one (1) of each of the following components in this order:
a) Master Computer3
b) Shield Generator1
c) Ion Engine3
d) Meson BLaster1
e) Armor1
f) Scanner Jammer
g) Cargo Bay1
h) Fighter Bay1
i) Supply Storage1

The Repair Priority is standard with the normal settings as set out above, although Construction, Colonizing and Miscellaneous were not used for ease of use [normally they would be g), h) and i)]

I did two tests. In each test, I substituted one of the above components with three of the same, but of a different rating (e.g. 1 Supply Storage1 with 3 Supply Storage3)

In the first test, I substituted all the following components for all the ships in this order of entry.

Destroyer #9 on the ship list had supply changed
Destroyer #8 on the ship list had fighter bay changed.
Destroyer #7 etc.
6
5
4
3
2
Destroyer #1 on the ship list had the master computer changed to bridge/life support/crew quarters.

Then

On each consecutive turn these components were [EDIT] repaired.
1) Turn 1 Vehicle
2) Turn 2 Shields
3) Turn 3 Cargo <====wierd
4) Turn 4 Engines
5) Turn 5 Supply <==== wierd
6) Turn 6 Weapons
7) Turn 7 Armor
8) Turn 8 Sensors
9) Turn 9 Unit Launch

In test 2, I substituted the following components for all the ships in this order of entry.

Destroyer #1 on the ship list had supply changed
Destroyer #2 on the ship list had fighter bay changed.
Destroyer #3 etc.
6
5
4
3
2
Destroyer #9 on the ship list had the master computer changed to bridge/life support/crew quarters.

Then

On each consecutive turn these components were [EDIT repaired].
1) Turn 1 Supply <====wierd
2) Turn 2 Unit Launch <====wierd
3) Turn 3 Engines
4) Turn 4 Cargo <====wierd
5) Turn 5 Vehicle
6) Turn 6 Sensors
7) Turn 7 Armor
8) Turn 8 Weapons
9) Turn 9 Shields

Maybe you guys can make some sense of this, because I sure can't. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Even eliminating the wierd entries, the components do not follow exactly the order of the Repair Priority setting. Not only that, in the Last test, the repairs seem to be more in line with the reverse of the Repair Priority setting.

[ February 12, 2003, 00:20: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

tbontob, did you run exact same test more then once?
I'd be interested to see if the results are the smqae each time the test runs.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Baron, I am sorry to say I haven't

It takes a while to set everything up as you can imagine.

On the plus side, I was very careful when I ran these two tests.

And documented everything, so anyone else could perform the same test if they want to. Same results will say one thing. Different results would say either I made a mistake, the other person made a mistake, we did the test somewhat differently or some other factor is operating of which we are not aware.

EDIT: Verifiability is a part of science which is why I provided the parameters so anyone else could try to verify it if they wanted to.

"smqae" = same?

[ February 12, 2003, 13:26: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

My own guess on this is the order in which ships are repaired depends on when they are built. Then it repairs that ship, using the component repair list to decide which components get fixed first, and then any leftover repair capacity goes to the next ship.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

It fixes the oldest ship first? lol

Polish that turd, we may want to **** it again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm.

That could be Sinapus.

If it is a factor, I don't think it is the whole story, as the the numbers of the ships are the numbers given to them in the order when they were produced by the computer (one per turn).

There is something going on that we seem to be missing.

[ February 13, 2003, 01:11: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Someone mentioned that the ships are repaird in order of their listing.

Looking carefully at the results of the tests, there would seem to be some a great deal of truth in this. But something else seems to be influencing the selection.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

RANT
This is really begining to piss me off.
I want to have boarding parties repaired first. I changed the general type from weapons to misc in the components file. And I have misc listed first on the priority list. The capture ship is much older than the captured derelict. The capture ship was also the first one on the list in the info box. By all rights, it should have been repaired first. it wasn't. If the priorities list don't work, why have it in the game. if modding the component type don't work, why even have that modding choice available. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif makes me wonder what else in the game is there that don't work the way it should.
/RANT

Re: Repair Priorities
 

After reading through all this, I'm not so sure anymore, but I think if you have more than one vehicle capable of making repairs, each will start repairing a different ship. I've noticed that often two damaged ships will both have some of their components repaired and not one with all repaired and the other just a few repaired.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On occasion, I have notice that too, but never paid it much attention. I just passed it off as having screwed up somewhere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But even assuming each repair facility/ship does repair different ships, they should still repair in the order of the Repair Priority list. In other words, if there are two repair facility/ships, they should at least start the repairs of two ships that are on the top of the list (as we interpret it) instead of just one.

But as the anecdotal evidence given in this thread and my test suggests, this isn't taking place, either in the multiple repairs or in serial repairs.

There is something in our interpretation of the Repair Priority list which is at variance with the results.

Re: Repair Priorities
 

So did we email MM yet to see how the repair priorities are supposed to work? If we know that, then all of this can be easily explained, either as how it works, or as a bug. But until we know how it is supposed to work, this is all guesswork. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Repair Priorities
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about a poll first? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Repair Priorities
 

There is something that I could do and that is to redo the test to see if I get the same results.

I have been wanting to do it since Baron Grazic asked if I had verified the results by doing it twice.

I just haven't had the time to do it (as yet).

Re: Repair Priorities
 

Baron Grazic had asked if I had run the following test more than once:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hadn't. But I did want to confirm it.

I had to find time from my two favourite projects...saving the world from itself and watching grass grow.

If you think watching grass grow is funny, try doing it in the wintertime! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But seriously, I duplicated the 2 tests and got exactly the same results.