Fleet Experience Poll
 

The purpose of this poll is to acquaint Aaron with a "supposed" area of difficulty he may not be aware of.

It has to do with your thoughts on having YOUR fleet with fleet experience disappear if you accidentally remove the Last ship from the fleet.

If enough people find it requires Aarons attention, I will submit it to him like I did on the strategies poll.

Edit: I have set this poll for 2 weeks.

Re-Edit: For those who may want more information on what prompted this poll, you can access this thread:

*()_+*&@!+_)(^&^^Fleet Experience

[ February 02, 2003, 06:07: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

There is no option for "I think the user should be more careful when playing the game."

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Accidents happen.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My own feeling is that we have enough to be careful about in the game without having to be extraordinarily careful about transfering ships between fleets.

To those players who seldom suffer the loss of a fleet, I would imagine it doesn't matter.

It may even be an advantage as it handicaps the player who does make the mistake more often and of course has no opportunity to correct it without having to restart the game.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

It doesn't take that much effort to not clear a fleet of all ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Accidents happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would much rather have Aaron work on more important things than this though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 02, 2003, 03:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Accidents happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would much rather have Aaron work on more important things than this though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it is for Aaron to decide what is important or not and what is easy for him to do or not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not for us to decide for him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

All we are doing is trying to communicate to him that some of the players may have a difficulty with a part of the game. After that, it is up to him to decide whether to do something about it or not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

Well, he only has so much time. He can't work on everything.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you are now his work scheduler? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If so, I would be interested in knowing who appointed you?

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

I fail to see how being realistic makes me his work scheduler....

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

So let him decide. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

Ooops, I've been messing around with links and got a wrong posting here.

EDIT: But this may be the place to ask a question. How do you get a link to take the person to the first posting of the thread?

RE-EDIT: I've got the link in the first posting of this thread to take the person to another thread. Question is how do you get the link to take the person to the first posting of that other thread.

[ February 02, 2003, 12:43: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your not being realistic, your being argumentative just for the sake of it. If you were being realistic, you would not assume what is not important to you is not important to a company or person. IE: how a customer feels about a part of their product.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

Well the poll did need a

- I never have deleted a fleet with 20+ experience so I'm not fussed.

Askan

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

Hey guys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is a simple poll intended for the ones who suffered a +20 experienced fleet loss. That is the long and the short of it.

So for the ones who have suffered an accidental loss of a +20 experience fleet, you either dislike it, are neutral or like it.

Strictly speaking, if you have never experienced a 20+ fleet loss, you cannot say how you felt about it.

Or to put it another way, a person cannot claim to have had a feeling about something which he has never experienced.

We may think we know how we would feel about something before it happens to us, but we truly do not know until it does.

And we could make it even more complicated to take into account newbies who also may not have experienced a +20 fleet loss and may not even know what the poll is about.

And then we can get into other aspects of it. Another person may say "I am not annoyed or irritated, I am very upset!" Or another may want the poll to take into account his feelings of extreme anger or rage (putting his boot through the computer screen).

So, the poll is intended to be quite simple..."If you have suffered +20 fleet experience loss, are you annoyed, simply irritated, neutral or have pleasure in the loss?"

[ February 02, 2003, 13:50: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

I don't often get fleets of +20 experience, unless I use the training facility. Which is exploiting the AI, andd too slow vs human. I would be irritated by the loss, but no more than when I'm doing a rerofit series and I accidentally retrofit to a cheaper design.

If I really cared enough, I'd let bases return to fleets so I could store the experience that way. But how's that gonna look on PBW. "This game is standard SE4, with one change so my life is easier" LOL

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

On a slightly unrelated note does anyone understand how fleets actually accumulate experience outside of training. These days it seems I have fleets involved in numerous, massive, battles, and they may only be at 23% or so having be trained to 20%. Ditto for ships. Way back before gold I seem to remember that getting lots of PD hits would raise your exp dramatically, and I had some fleets in 1 game at legendary status, but this does not seem to be the case any more. Personally I would like to see the training aspect of fleet/ship experience much less significant than that gained through battle.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

He what's up with the rant tbontob?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Your inital post re:acquanting Aaron with the problem seemed to invite opinions wether or not this was a problem. I don't think it is.

the poll is a bit simplistic anyway. If you accidentaly lose the %20 bonus on a main attack fleet deep in enemy territory that then gets whipped out you'd be pissed. If you 've got tones of training facilities and it is a new fleet it is no big deal

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Really??? I just finished an all human game were they were absulutly crucial to my victory.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey were talking a game here not some tragedy like losing a loved one. I think it is within the imaginations of most se4 players to know how they would feel about this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then your poll is inherentlybiased, as it does not encompass the full range of possible experiences WRT the subject matter at hand.

Yes, a simple "I've never lost one, so I don't feel either way" response WOULD have balanced the poll far better.

Basically it renders your results invalid WRT wetehr or not a fix is needed, or even appropriate. What if, for example, 90% of respondants were to choose "I'm careful enough I never do this in the first place" ... ??

Then, the obvious conclusion would be, it's not a problem.

...

I won't even go INTO how biased the questions themselves were, in form AND wording ...

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

I have lost a fleet or two (none recently in the 20+ training range) due to my own carelessness in this, and I have two responses.

1.Smack myself about the head and shoulders for pulling such a lame-brained move. If I don't feel like doing it myself, I have a number of friends who would be more than happy to help me out there. And then deal with the "administrative screw-up that disbanded the fleet" by ordering several thousand bureaucrats into deep space or hurling them into the nearest star.

2.Start my turn all over again. And avoid that error.

Much as I might like some safeguard, it sounds like a situation that would either turn really buggy or be another space for exploitation. I don't like the idea of the computer having to track fleets with 0 ships.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Accidents happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would much rather have Aaron work on more important things than this though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here! Here! Do Do happens, I have dont and I'm sure we all have OOPS! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Really??? I just finished an all human game were they were absulutly crucial to my victory.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">David http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not a rant, but you are entitled to your opionion! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

About the "bit simplistic" part, oh yes! Intended to be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

And the quote you presented was not a statement I had ever made, even though you seem to imply it was by not providing its source. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey were talking a game here not some tragedy like losing a loved one. I think it is within the imaginations of most se4 players to know how they would feel about this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course we are not talking about a loss of a loved one. It is about a 20+ experience fleet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And yes, it is in within the imagination of most (I would even be more generous than you and say "all") SE4 players know how they feel about it.

The question is have they experienced it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If they have, then please participate.

If you haven't you can still participate, no-one is tying your wrists to a piano. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I did not mean to imply it was. It was by Arkcon.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

Somehow, I have the impression that something more is going on than is being expressed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Why can't those of us who have experienced a loss of a +20 experienced fleet participate in a poll and pass it on to Aaron? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it's suppressed outrage at people demanding to be protected from their own mistakes.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it's suppressed outrage at people demanding to be protected from their own mistakes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you capnq http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You may have hit the nail on the head.

If so, it would appear that the suppressed anger is so great that they would even deny people their right to ask for change.

But why is there such a deep rage in the first place? Where did it come from?

Edit: Just a small point. We haven't even got to the point of requesting a change. Maybe the poll will show there wouldn't be much point in doing so. So the rage must be huge! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ February 02, 2003, 22:18: Message edited by: tbontob ]

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No rage or anger here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you think a change is needed go ahead and e-mail MM. I don't think you need permision from anyone here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about, instead of handing Aaron a uselessly-biased poll, handing him one that DOES reflect the TRUE impact of that aspect of gameplay?

After all, if 90% or more of people don't even MAKE the mistake, handing Aaron a poll that only indicates "80% of respondants were extremely upset by feature X" is grossly (and IMO unforgivably) misleading.

Come up with a fair, unbiased poll, and I'm behind you all the way.

Otherwise ... *shrug*

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

What I would like to see is a confirmation when you accidently hit upgrade in the construction window and do a global upgrade.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ditto. For me fleets witn 20+ experience are pretty rare so I'm pretty carefull with them. Actually it's not even so much being carefull as just having no reason to take all the ships out. (other than taking out a few to retro fit)

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

I completely agree. That drives me nuts too!

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your not being realistic, your being argumentative just for the sake of it. If you were being realistic, you would not assume what is not important to you is not important to a company or person. IE: how a customer feels about a part of their product.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... no. This has always been an issue, since the beta Versions of SE4. If Aaron thought it was a significant problem, he would have done something about it by now. Since he has not, we can only conclude that he does not consider it to be a very big deal (since I know people have emailed him about it before).

Just because I do not agree with you does not mean that I am "being argumentative just for the sake of it."

I (like anyone) can make guesses about how important something is or is not. I do not have to be the game developper to do so.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now that one would indeed be a useful feature that would be worth having Aaron spend his time on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And to Tbontob: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Is that enough rage and anger for you? Too bad I can't do more in one post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif j/k

[ February 03, 2003, 07:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They shouldn't be. You should have so many 20xp fleets that you sometimes delete them intentionally.

I've only accidentally deleted a fleet once. It was a pain have to go back and redo my turn when a simple "confirm" check would have prevented it.

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They shouldn't be. You should have so many 20xp fleets that you sometimes delete them intentionally.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2 or 3 20+ experience fleets works quite well thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif What kind of horribly mismanged empire do have that you have 20+ exp fleets you don't intend to use? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Of course I prefer to crush the opposition before training facilities are even researched. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Fleet Experience Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Horrible mismanagement is the Last thing the enemy expects! That, and the comfy chair. With those two things, I am invincible!