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Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Say Fyron, in your Quadrant Mod, you have a lot of moons with atmospheres... Doesn't that put None breathers at a disadvantage, since they no longer have more breathable planets, while they still can't find any breathable gas giants? How about increasing the proportion of planets that have no atmosphere - or did you already do that and I didn't notice? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
(goes through solar system to see if it's reasonable to have more airless planets... Mercury, no appreciable atmosphere. Venus, carbon dioxide. Earth, oxygen (for SE4 purposes). Mars... questionable, either oxygen or none. Jupiter, hydrogen. Saturn, hydrogen. Uranus, methane. Neptune, methane. Pluto, none. So there, three out of five non-gas planets in the solar system have no atmosphere! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
There are still moons with no atmosphere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
This has always bugged me about SEIV... None Atmosphere breathers!. If there's no atmosphere then there's atmosphere then what are they breathing! As far as I can see, an NA "breather" would be just fine in almost any atmosphere that isn't toxic to his skin and won't burn/freeze him. Of course, I can see that this would be absurdly overpowering in SEIV, but still, kinda annoying to me.
Kinda sad that this is my biggest complaint about SEIV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
None-atmosphere races can't stand the pressure of an atmosphere. Don't think of them breathing nothing, and there is no issue with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Actually, given the massive numbers of planets of all sorts added in FQM, I don't think anyone's at a new disadvantage.
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
I would tend to disagree. That (FQM) is about the only place I play None/Ice or None/Rock - because they seem to be at a disadvantage. At least from my perspective.....
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
I think you're right.
I'll try to remake my planet comparison chart for the FQM and send suggestions to improve balance if possible. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
I think you'll find more oxygen planets than other types. Just look at the image mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
You're talking about the Deluxe Version.
I thought we were talking about the Standard FQM. I have to count planets in one Version before the other so it makes sense doing it first for the std and then for the dlx. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
FQM standard does not change the secttype.txt file. All it does is make the moons be any atmosphere instead of all being none. But, there should still be about as many none atmosphere moons anyways as there are in the normal game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
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There are the same number of None moons available. There are more Atmospheric moons available. None gets no bonus (same # of moons)in FQM Non-nones do get a bonus (more moons)in FQM so, yup, vaccuum breathers get gypped in FQM. [ February 05, 2003, 05:28: Message edited by: spoon ] |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
atmospheric modification facilities would help...kind of weird though - removing an atmosphere completely.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
[ February 06, 2003, 00:33: Message edited by: AJC ] |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Relusts of my calculations, I'll post the spreadsheet if you're interested
<Table Border><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Planet Type</TD><TD ALIGN="left">Stock (Mid-Life Quadrant)</TD><TD ALIGN="left">FQM Std (Mid-Life Quadrant)</TD><TD ALIGN="left">Change</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#0000FF ALIGN="center">Oxygen-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,32%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,46%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">101,69%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#00CCFF ALIGN="center">Oxygen-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,21%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,10%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">97,76%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#3366FF ALIGN="center">Oxygen-Gas</TD><TD ALIGN="center">7,79%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,07%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">103,64%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#FF0000 ALIGN="center">Hydrogen-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,32%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,46%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">101,69%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#993300 ALIGN="center">Hydrogen-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,21%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,10%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">97,76%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#FF9900 ALIGN="center">Hydrogen-Gas</TD><TD ALIGN="center">7,79%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,07%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">103,64%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#339966 ALIGN="center">C Dioxide-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,32%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,46%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">101,69%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#99CC00 ALIGN="center">C Dioxide-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,21%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,10%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">97,76%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#00FF00 ALIGN="center">C Dioxide-Gas</TD><TD ALIGN="center">7,79%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,07%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">103,64%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#800080 ALIGN="center">Methane-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,42%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,61%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">102,28%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#CC99FF ALIGN="center">Methane-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,11%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">4,94%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">96,69%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#FF00FF ALIGN="center">Methane-Gas</TD><TD ALIGN="center">7,79%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,07%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">103,64%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 ALIGN="center">None-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,95%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">8,28%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">92,51%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#808080 ALIGN="center">None-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,78%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">5,23%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">90,37%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="middle"><TD BGCOLOR=#969696 ALIGN="center">None-Gas</TD><TD ALIGN="center">0,00%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">0,00%</TD><TD ALIGN="center">#DIV/0!</TD></TR></Table> Edit: Enters at the end of cells were translated as blank lines before the table. [ February 06, 2003, 04:15: Message edited by: Andrés Lescano ] |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Why is there so much blank space before the table?
Also, that color scheme is distracting when trying to compare something like all the rock planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif There are the same number of Methane Ice as Oxygen Ice planets in the unmodded game. Your results appear incorrect. What are you basing these calculations on? [ February 06, 2003, 01:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
The results are be in % of total facility slots.
I calculated the proportion of every planet/size/type combination based on sector types, and in the system and quadrant files. Here's the file if you want to check for mistakes, it took me a while to copy data from the FQM systems file and there could be some mistake there. No there are not, there is 1 more small-methane-rock planet and 1 less small-methane-ice planet the stock sectortypes file. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Interesting... so vacuum breathers don't get gypped, it's really the ice people... wonder if that could be fixed just by adding duplicate entries to SectType.txt...
edit: funny, whenever I play as a rock race all the good planets seem to be ice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif [ February 07, 2003, 14:55: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ] |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Your results make no sense.
SectTypes.txt is exactly the same in FQM Standard as in the unmodded game, so that can not account for any difference. The only systems that I called for rock or ice planets specifically are the Standard 1-6 AS and Ancient 1-6 AS, and those systems do not appear in Mid-Life quadrants. Actually, the Standard 12 AS I and II have an Ice planet called as the 12th "planet", so there should be a few more Ice planets, not less. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Ed no-breathers do suffer: in stock they have a slight advantage over breathers, while in FQM a slight disadvantage. Though I feraded a much larger difference, there are still a lot of moons (or other planets I didn't check their position) forced to be tiny none, and there are also some forced to be small-none and medium-none that do not exist in the stock game.
About ice dwellers, the difference with the standard Version is minimal, ice people don't get any more gypped in FQM than in the stock game. I'm trying to determine the reason of this difference. You're free to examine the spreadsheet I posted to check for mistakes either in the data I copied as source or in my logic. Or to generate a quadrant and count planets to check if their proportion is close to the one I calculated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I'm counting those ice planets, but both of them only appear in systems repeated 3 times each so those 6 planets are insignificant when weighted against the total of 9,316 planets. For example the number of planets forced to be huge gas giants is far more significant. Even if you'd add one of those ice planets in every system it wouldn't be enough to make them even with rock and gas. To even ice planets you'd need something more drastic, like changing 1/4 of the total number of any-any-any planets to any-any-ice. I couldn't find anything conclusive yet, but my guess is that the larger number of planets, the slight advantage in gas, and the greater proportion of tiny and small planets accentuate the difference between ice and rock. Even the little difference in small-methane gets stressed due to the larger proportion of small-any planets. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
I think you are too concerned with the old system types that are hardly even used (if at all) in later Versions of FQM. Standard 1-6 AS can safely be ignored, because they are not used.
The systems used most (Standard 1-12 AS I or II) don't have ice planets specified. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Keep in mind that there are more important concerns than number of facility slots. None races do not get population bonuses as readily, but they do potentially have more shipyard capacity in a game where you cannot only colonize None worlds. In a wide open colonization game, an 8% facility versus a 6% facility ratio of Green pluss worlds means nothing when you figure out how easy it is to get a 10% Population bonus on green plus world. In this area, the other breathers have advantage in getting Huge and Large worlds. None breathers do not benit much from computers either.
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
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Planets called in every system type are multiplied by the number of times that system appears in the quadrant, that gives every system the relative importance is has. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Yes, I did. But, there should still not be many more Rock planets in there.
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
The difference lies in the balance of planet sizes:
In stock all sizes have the same multipliers except huge that has nearly twice, so balance of planet sizes depends mostly of sector types. By forcing so many tiny, small, and medium planets and relatively less huge ones FQM alters that "balance". Forced huge-gas planets compensate this for gas dwellers (slightly overcompensate actually), but non-gas huge planets become relatively rare and that is the only size in which ice is as common as rock and where ice dwellers found most of their facility slots. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
I suppose that makes some sense. Care to do an analysis of FQM Deluxe? That one I know is going to be rahter unbalanced, but I have no idea how unbalanced. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
I dont have definitive results yet, there's some minor mistake I'm trying to find.
But so far I can tell you this: *Rock-ox is not as good as you thought, other atmospheres specially Carbon Dioxide and Methane get even more planets *The best combination seems to be Gas-Hydrogen, near twice as good thant the worst Ice-Carbon Dioxide. |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Well... that was just a guess, as I hadn't looked at the amounts of planet pics in the image mod too closely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
Here you have the results:
<Table border><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Hydrogen-Gas Giant</TD><TD ALIGN="right">9.73%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Methane-Gas Giant</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >8.76%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">C Dioxide-Gas Giant</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >8.73%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">C Dioxide-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >8.41%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Methane-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >8.28%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Oxygen-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >7.71%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Hydrogen-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >7.70%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Oxygen-Gas Giant</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >7.60%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">None-Rock</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >6.99%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Oxygen-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >5.64%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Hydrogen-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >5.43%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">None-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >5.34%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">Methane-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >4.89%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">C Dioxide-Ice</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >4.79%</TD></TR><TR VALIGN="bottom"><TD ALIGN="left">None-Gas Giant</TD><TD ALIGN="right" >0.00%</TD></TR></table> http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/fqm-dlx-planets.xls [ February 13, 2003, 15:12: Message edited by: Andrés Lescano ] |
Re: Vacuum breathers get gypped in FQM?
As I said, the Image Mod is unbalancing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Want to make more planet pics to help balance that out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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