OT: Alien Contact
 

Do you think that it is possible for Earth to have been or is going to be visited by an Alien race?

What do you think would be our response now given all of the hype that Sci-fi shows, books, and movies has generated. Would we be open minded and accept them as friends, if they come in peace, or would we be secptical and be threatened by them?

First and foremost, I do not believe that Earth has ever been visited by Aliens, nor do I ever believe we will be. I do believe that life may exsist else where in the universe, but I do not believe it is wide spread. I feel that Earth is a fragile bio-sphere, and that all life on Earth is a trillion to one happenstance.

If for some reason we were contacted by alien life, then I think we would fear it, but accept it. I think a few nutball goobers might try and mock it up, but overall the people of our world would accept the new reality without wanting to blow it to hell.

That is say for the ultra fanatical religious types and ultra paranoid "the sky is falling" fruit cakes of the world.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Well, if there is life out there (a possibility, because even if the odds are 1 to a trillion, there are billions of stars), it will be unlikely that we will contact it anytime soon. Due to the incredible distances involved, signals, let alone spacecraft, (radio, laser, etc) take centuries if not thousands of years to get here, because of the limit of the speed of light.
If there is a way around the speed of light, I dont know. String theory holds that we exist in 10 dimensions, maybe we can circumvent the speed of light by altering these other dimensions (if string theory is true, mind you)

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

If an alien race ever did try to contact us, I think that the movies portrayal of what the military might do is probably closer to the truth than I'd like to imagine. I'd like to believe that there is other life out there, but to tell you the truth, I'm more Scully than Mulder. I'd have to see/hear/taste/feel it to know that it was true. This reminds of a time I saw something that might have been an UFO back when I was a kid. I was out at night with my Boy Scout troop, and we were doing a night hike, when we noticed a fast moving light in the sky. We all thought it was a satellite, but as it approached the horizon, it did a 90 degree turn in a split second. There was no gradual turn. Even now that I live in Florida and there's all of those sightings in the panhandle portion of the state, that's the only time I've seen a UFO. But I'd love to see one again.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Beam me up Scotty. There is no intelligent life down here.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

I don't believe that alien races exist, at least not on a level with humans. This would be inconsistent with a God who created mankind to be in His likeness, and be special in all of creation.

However, I do believe that there are beings who exist in another dimension, the spirit world, who we usually can't see (we may be able to feel their presence though). There are also methods of contact between the dimensions. I have been very interested in string theory because it may be an explanation to this relationship. It may be possible that all UFO sightings, etc. could be explained by contact between the spirit world and humanity.

Greybeard

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

I don't think that there would be any real problem with alien contact, provided we are contacted by sufficiently intelligent aliens.

I mean, according to most movies aliens are apparently idiot savants. They can figure out how to travel interstellar distances but they can't figure out how to open a dialogue BEFORE trying to land on the Whitehouse lawn (thus provoking tanks to shoot at it, denying us a cure for cancer, etc., etc.).

Any alien race that managed to say hello before trying to land (a.k.a. invading Earth) would receive a rather warm (if stunned) welcome. As for the military, they might get a little twitchy but there is really nothing they can do against orbital bombardment and they know it. Despite the cliche of the texan general who is aching to nuke something, these are professionals who will not start a war that they have no hope of winning, and no idea of how to fight.

Putting outer space into strategic and tactical consideration would require a greater shift in military doctrine than was required when tanks replaced the cavalry (or any other major advance in the art of war).

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your argument is fallacious: You question the ability of Allmighty to create the very similar race on any other celectial body. After all, Star Treck proved we can interbreed with Klingons, Vulcans, etc. proving we all are the same kind ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

There is no other life out there, if there is, it is only microscopic and not intelligent. Nor have we ever been visited by aliens.
We as humans are unique in the universe, and always will be.

Along with Greybeards thought, well not along with it, but sort of against it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't believe there is another "spirit realm". All those people you see claming to talk to the dead, or talk to the spirits of ones or read the future or crap like that, I like to call that demons at work.
But like I said, that is how I feel and I'm sure not everyone agrees with that. Which is fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Some how my disturbed mind conjured up a movie image of a gangster trying to ride a horse. He gets so frustrated and points his gun at the horses head. Well, of course the animal doesn't recognize the threat and doesn't respond.
So maybe we are to stupid to be conquered yet.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

I don't have an opinion about if alien races exists or not. I really don't.
But if they exist its very unlikely that they would have the means to communicate with us.
In theory, our galaxy might be swarming with life, and even a few intelligent species, or maybe our galaxy its just a barren piece of real estate. Or maybe there is nothing out there and even the stars are an optical ilusion.....
Who knows?

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Some how my disturbed mind conjured up a movie image of a gangster trying to ride a horse. He gets so frustrated and points his gun at the horses head. Well, of course the animal doesn't recognize the threat and doesn't respond.
So maybe we are to stupid to be conquered yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">don't remember exact quote or who said it but it is something like: "the exact proof that there is an intelligent life out there is that no one tried to contact us " http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

i think that was from a calvin and hobes comic strip, as calvin is looking at a sawed off tree stump, littered with empty beer cans.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

There is little to no possibility of being visited by an alien race because it would be quite impractical to get to earth from another star system. It is impossible to travel faster than light, or even anywhere near the speed of light. It would take centuries to get here from the nearest stars, and there is no way those stars could support life on any planets that could be around them. Alpha Centauri and its companion stars probably don't even have any planets, much less ones that could support life. So, any life-supporting planets are going to be much farther away, making a trip here even less practical. Warp points (or frequent worm holes, which is what warp points would be, really) do not exist in reality, so that nullifies the possibility of bypassing most of interstellar space on the trip here.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Fyron, you're being so much of a skeptic you're starting to look like a speculator yourself.

We have not tried to accelerate past C. We don't -know- for sure what happens. Yes, we have theory. Yes, have have tests that support it, and observations that do the same. But we haven't done it. Remember how the sound barrier got its name.

The same applies even more so to other FTL methods, especially the ones you mentioned. Lack of proof is not proof of abscene.

Phoenix-D

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

I'm sure there are a lot of wacky crackpots trying to literally accelerate past C, at the moment.

Then there's the serious scientists with their super-high energy particle accelerators who don't even bother with the idea.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

There is a world of difference between the limits of the sound barrier and the speed of light.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Wow... this thread is a hotplate ready to explode. Nice to see nobody stepping on anybody elses toes though.

Fyron is quite the skeptic. Amazing isn't it?

As for faster then light, you could travel faster then light, because light has variable velocity and as such you just slow down some light.....

Yah, I know, it is stupid but I had to say it.

As for science, remember this is current science we talk about, there was a time when current science told us the world was flat (I love cliches) We can't really talk about the future in certainties because nobody, unless your phsycic, in which case, what are next weeks lotery numbers?

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

What light has variable velocity?

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought all light has variable velocity - it depends on the medium. That is the whole principle behind a prism IIRC....

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I agree.
If the research of "faster than sound" would be 5K research points then the research of "Faster than Light" would be somwhere around 5B.
Who knows, maybe there are other barriers before the speed of light. Or maybe the speed of light is not a barrier. One thing is sure, we are light years away from an engine that come even close.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One Word: C++

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought all light has variable velocity - it depends on the medium. That is the whole principle behind a prism IIRC....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, light has constant velocity. Different wavelengths travel at marginally different speeds, but it is all constant. Light seeming to slow down in water and such is an optical illusion.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I agree.
If the research of "faster than sound" would be 5K research points then the research of "Faster than Light" would be somwhere around 5B.
Who knows, maybe there are other barriers before the speed of light. Or maybe the speed of light is not a barrier. One thing is sure, we are light years away from an engine that come even close.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Going the speed of light requires infinite energy and gives you infinite mass. Also, the closer you get to the speed of light (as you are not a sub-sub atomic particle), the slower you go in relation to the rest of the universe. This is because time seems to slow down for you, while the rest of the universe goes along at its normal rate. You would see yourself going really fast, but an outside observer in a stationary reference frame (such as the universe) would see you going slower and slower.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

I would disagree IF, light has constant velocity in a vacuum. That is represented by C IIRC. (It's been a long time since physics class). Also, I thought that was one of the reasons why light fits the wave theory as well as the particle theory - because it has variable velocity depending on the medium...

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One Word: C++</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! Too bad you can't upgrade the speed of light like you can computer coding Languages. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, the light only seems to slow down in a thicker medium. It does not actually slow down. It has only been 26 hours since the Last time I was in a physics class. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 26, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

To Quote:

To be precise, what we usually call the "speed of light" is really the speed of light in a vacuum (the absence of matter). In reality, the speed of light depends on the material that light moves through. Thus, for example, light moves slower in glass than in air, and in both cases the speed is less than in a vacuum.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Yeah, I can make up random quotes too. What is your point?

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

My point is, just do a Google search on the "speed of light" and you'll see MANY references that say you're incorrect and that light does vary in speed...

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic..._of_light.html

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Maybe you meant "C" is a constant.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your argument is fallacious: You question the ability of Allmighty to create the very similar race on any other celectial body. After all, Star Treck proved we can interbreed with Klingons, Vulcans, etc. proving we all are the same kind ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you read carefully, I didn't question the Almighty's ability. I just said it was inconsistent with His nature. God can do whatever he wants. However, he has revealed himself in his word and in nature, and I believe that he is consistent and doesn't change....Greybeard

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Light seems to slow down because the different wavelengths travel at slightly different speeds. When a beam white light (which consists of all colors/wavelengths of visible light) goes from a thin medium to a thick medium (such as from air to water), the faster wavelengths of light seem to have a longer distance to travel, as they are on the outside of the angle of refraction. The slower wavelenghts are on the inside of the turn, and so seem to travel a shorter distance. This gives the appearance of the light slowing down, when in actuality, it does not. I forget the exact mathematical proof that shows that the light did not slow down any.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your argument is fallacious: You question the ability of Allmighty to create the very similar race on any other celectial body. After all, Star Treck proved we can interbreed with Klingons, Vulcans, etc. proving we all are the same kind ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you read carefully, I didn't question the Almighty's ability. I just said it was inconsistent with His nature. God can do whatever he wants. However, he has revealed himself in his word and in nature, and I believe that he is consistent and doesn't change....Greybeard</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Should I even go there... yes. The Christian God (and all other religions) is a creation of mankind to explain things that we can not explain otherwise.

[ February 26, 2003, 21:18: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't want to sound crass, but I would be very interested in seeing some evidence to support this postulation. I consider myself well-read and have never encountered any reading to support your position.

EDIT: Yeah, that 'changing medium' thing - its called the 'refractive index'....

[ February 26, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: rdouglass ]

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh man, I've heard that so many times.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Let me post somthing to light it up a little.

http://mandyfanatic.com/pics/new7.jpg

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rag: I agree that the activities you list aren't good. However, I belive that there are angels and demons, and yes, the devil. Although we can't see these spiritual beings, they are around us and influence us for good and evil. I also believe that some evil people are aided by demons, just as believers can be aided by God's angels. A person must be very careful to not get caught up in the spiritual realm, as it is easy to be deceived....Greybeard

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't want to sound crass, but I would be very interested in seeing some evidence to support this postulation. I consider myself well-read and have never encountered any reading to support your position.

EDIT: Yeah, that 'changing medium' thing - its called the 'refractive index'....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It was in my physics book Last year, which is generally accepted as the best physics text book out there. Unfortunately, I only have volume one of that book now, so I can't look it up to relate it to you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It is all about reference frames. From our reference frame, the light appears to slow down when going into a thicker medium. But from the reference frame of the light, it has not decreased in speed at all. That is what matters more. Our perception is inherently flawed anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rag: I agree that the activities you list aren't good. However, I belive that there are angels and demons, and yes, the devil. Although we can't see these spiritual beings, they are around us and influence us for good and evil. I also believe that some evil people are aided by demons, just as believers can be aided by God's angels. A person must be very careful to not get caught up in the spiritual realm, as it is easy to be deceived....Greybeard</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I welcome you to join us in the 21st century if you would like to. Its up to you, really. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

I don't know exactly about the SoL thing but there are many pages out there. Try this one:

http://www.what-is-the-speed-of-ligh...ive-index.html

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same thing.
The initial wavefront moving thorugh the material goes right through at the speed of light.
The interference from the secondary EM waves generated by the atoms jostled by the main wave adds up to produce a new wave whos peaks and valleys change position slower than you'd expect.

Look at standing waves on a rope as a slowed down example. You start waving the rope (attached to a wall or a friend on the other side)
You see a succession of waves travel down the rope, hit the wall, and then reflect back, and start to interfere with the later waves you made.
When the two waves interfere in the rope, the total result is a wave that looks like it isn't moving at all.
The energy is still moving along at the normal speed, but the interference causes the illusion of slower (or faster (!)) velocities.
Given appropriate conditions, you can actually make the wave peaks appear to "travel" faster than C, but the far side of the apparatus will not light up until enough time has passed for a beam at speed C to travel the length of the apparatus.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Why the heck does Atrocities keep creating threads that spiral out of control? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you're saying there is no God? That mankind made Him up? All you have to do is look around, look at the evidence, look through his Word (the Bible), and it is plain as day that there is a God. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same thing.
The initial wavefront moving thorugh the material goes right through at the speed of light.
The interference from the secondary EM waves generated by the atoms jostled by the main wave adds up to produce a new wave whos peaks and valleys change position slower than you'd expect.

Look at standing waves on a rope as a slowed down example. You start waving the rope (attached to a wall or a friend on the other side)
You see a succession of waves travel down the rope, hit the wall, and then reflect back, and start to interfere with the later waves you made.
When the two waves interfere in the rope, the total result is a wave that looks like it isn't moving at all.
The energy is still moving along at the normal speed, but the interference causes the illusion of slower (or faster (!)) velocities.
Given appropriate conditions, you can actually make the wave peaks appear to "travel" faster than C, but the far side of the apparatus will not light up until enough time has passed for a beam at speed C to travel the length of the apparatus.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finally, someone joining the conversation that knows more physics than I do instead of someone that knows less. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He's just good at it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you're saying there is no God? That mankind made Him up? All you have to do is look around, look at the evidence, look through his Word (the Bible), and it is plain as day that there is a God. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From the smiley, I conclude that that is meant as a joke. Otherwise...

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you're saying there is no God? That mankind made Him up? All you have to do is look around, look at the evidence, look through his Word (the Bible), and it is plain as day that there is a God. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From the smiley, I conclude that that is meant as a joke. Otherwise...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, from the smiley I mean I am not heated in the discussion and not about to argue the point.
I firmly believe what I posted.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you serious?
You aren't trolling on us, aren't you?
Remember that the definition of trolling is to post and defend an idea in which you don't really believe just for your own amusement.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you're saying there is no God? That mankind made Him up? All you have to do is look around, look at the evidence, look through his Word (the Bible), and it is plain as day that there is a God. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From the smiley, I conclude that that is meant as a joke. Otherwise...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, from the smiley I mean I am not heated in the discussion and not about to argue the point.
I firmly believe what I posted.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In that case... why do you think the Bible is any evidence? Why is it (and hence Christianity) better than other religions? What makes it right, and everything else wrong?

The "evidence" in the Bible is only corroborated by the world around you because the authors of the Bible were good authors and wrote it as such.

[ February 26, 2003, 21:49: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because if you look into the Bible you will see that everything that it has said will happen, has indeed happened. There's not a single thing that was fortold in the Bible that didn't come true. So this being the case, why would any question the content in it?
I'm not going to argue the facts with you simply because I realize that I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe.

Re: OT: Alien Contact
 

Umm... no. There are tons of things the Bible says happened and will happen that did not ever happen.

I would question the Bible's content because I am a thinking being. Everyone should question any book's content. Blindly accepting anything is horribly, horrible wrong. Even worse than having drastically wrong beliefs about the nature of reality, by many orders of magnitude.

[ February 26, 2003, 21:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]