oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

http://www.ina-community.com/forums/...hreadid=267505

thats a thread about many new moo3 owners that are dissatisfied - you all might want to point them to se4gold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

anyway, i'd like to know what you all think?

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

I never played MOO or MOO2. I read this guys rant and some other Posts on the thread. My impression is that it's no worse then some of the complaints that SE4 generated, especially form some of the diehard SE3 fans back in the early days. It's hard to mke the case that the game is flopping based on this guys opinion. There are plenty of Posts on that forum saying how much they like the game too.

I haven't decided yet if I am gonna try it. I'll probably just wait for SE5.

One thing that I do think is interesting. In all the Posts I read on that forum, people do lots of comparing between MOO and other 4x game like Galactic Civ, Alpha Centauri, and others. But I never see anyone mention Space Empires. Are we that much of a niche game that other niche gamers don't even know who we are? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

[ February 27, 2003, 16:02: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Yepp. Other gamers don't know of SE4.
I've played Moo and Moo2 and will get Moo3 soon.
I played VGA Planets a couple of years and tried SE2 but thought it was bad.
Never heard of SE3 or SE4 until a friend who had found a review at some obscure site pointed me in this direction.

With a good PR it could sell alot more. But that would cost alot, so I'm not sure there would be any profit left though?

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

unfortunately, yes... se4 is a niche

there was never a store release
(which, today is better than even a year ago)

but still bad imho - aaron / malf. needs to call up eb and see if they can get some copies put onto shelves with 'new release' stickers and maybe a follow up review on game review sites that have just finished doing moo3 reviews http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(hrm, should i be running malf? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif - they should call me for consulting work or sumsuch)

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Think about what? MOO3?
I'm not buying, I'm happy with the Proportioned SE4.
Right now I'm blockading a Homeworld I can't take by assault. My fleet is in orbit, but I don't dare to get within range of the 60! weapons platforms defending the planet. The AI have out researched me and its bring out a new generation of Medium Fighters while my obsolete fighters can't hold the tide. I have a Shipyard ship on route to retrofit my fleet with top of the line Point Defense Cannons, and I have 3 large transports loaded with obsolete but still efective Armored Divisions (small troops) and some 300 000 Infantry ready to land . (in proportions 1kt infantry equals 1000 people)

With this going on who needs MMO3? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

I don't think we should compare SE:IV to MOO:3 or any other game...

...We should devote our energy towards making suggestions and coming up with new ideas to make Space Empires V the best game it can be. What other game do we the players have a chance to really make a difference in how it's put together? There are many of us here that have had suggestions directly put into patches for SE:IV already. Now let's flex our consumer muscles and gaming brains and make sure that Space Empires V will be a great game!

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree completely. Someone bought me MOO2 a few years ago. Never even installed it.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Space Empires is a great game as it allows a great deal of changes to be made by the consumer, and the designers encourage input from the gamers.

Yes, it is a very niche market, however the PR does not have to cost an arm and a leg, there are may ways to market the new game that would cost no cash.

I know a great deal of people who are MOO, Alpha Centari, Birth of the Federation, etc. fans who have never tried SE because they do not know much about it. Each of these games is very different yet I believe Space Empires would appeal to many of them as each game is basicly a strategy game that challenges the mental abilities of the players as opposed to their dexterity.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

I really enjoyed Moo2. I liked the sound and animation of colony ship landing, I liked rotating new devices my science guy present. I liked the general view of my beautiful colonies, I liked every bit of space combat !
Now, AFAIK, it is all gone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I may buy Moo3 3-4 months from now, for £5.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Probably not. Going retail brings very little to no profit to the game developer. This is why MM never took SE to retail. MM would most likely end up losing money if that happened.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree completely. Someone bought me MOO2 a few years ago. Never even installed it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You missed out on a lot then. MOO2 is essentially a better game than SE4. The only downside to it is that it lacks the moddability of SE4. This is the only reason why SE4 is currently a better game than MOO2. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Well, that, and you can't do as many varied stellar manipulations as in SE4, but that is a minor point. It is kind of like the difference between nVidia and ATI video cards. The ATI card is a better designed card, but the nVidia has far superior drivers, which make it outperform in the end. If only MOO2 was merged with SE4, then we would have one heck of a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 27, 2003, 17:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

I haven't played any of the MOO games, so I can't compare SE4 to them, but compared the games I have played, SE4 beat the hell out of them in everything but diplomacy.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

You can get MOO2 for rather cheap nowadays. I only payed about $10 for it a few years back. I suggest you try it out. You won't regret it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

MOO series = good single player
SE4 = good multiplayer

I probably won't play MOO3 multiplayer, and, lord help me, I won't play SE4 single player.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is good to see that I am not alone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Well... except that there is no "lord help me" part for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 27, 2003, 18:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately, the mis-adventures of the MOO series might hurt all 4X games rather than help its rivals. Most people are hypnotized by eye-candy 'real time' 3D games these days, you know. Hearing that MOO 3 was 'a flop' might convince them that 4X games aren't any good and they should stick with the click-fest eye-candy type games. Then Galactic Civilization and other pending 4X games will get much less chance to prove themselves.

I'm sure MM will be reading reviews and listening to opinons about MOO 3 to learn what they did wrong, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 27, 2003, 18:26: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

One thing that makes a big difference, Moo2, Moo3, Alpha Centauri, Gal Civ etc are all 'retail' products as in 'on the shelves of many stores out there.' SE4 as far as I know has only been available through Online purchase. That makes a whole lot of difference in how visible a product is in the public eye. I would be willing to bet that if SE4:Gold hit retail shelves sales would dramatically increase. Heck if it was able to top $500,000 sales just through the net, I'd say it still has lots of potential.

..just another of my humble opinions..

Cheers!

P.S. I really hope that SE:5 hits not only the Online stores, but also makes it's way into the retail outlets. There's a whole new audience out there, and that means a lot of sales potential!

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Yes, and that would make lots of money for the retail stores, and for the retail distributers. But not much for MM at all. This is why SE4 was not taken to retail. The developers pretty much get the shaft when their games' are sold retail.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Yeah, I didn't even know of the Space Empire series of games until I read a review in PC Gamer. I then went to Electronic Boutique, where I seem to get the majority of my games, and they had never even heard of it. I then checked out the website, downloaded the demo, played it and became so damn frustrated with not knowing what the heck I was doing that I ordered the game, figuring the manual would explain all!! Ha, ha, little did I know....

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ouch! Bad assumption! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

lol, ya but now you luv se4 eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i just wish aaron fixed general ai and combat resolution/strategy/initiative issues - imho the 2 weakest parts of se4gold

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My main point was 'visability' products that are only available through the net have a much more 'limited' audience. (compared to retail!) As to getting the shaft, I'd say it all depends on the contract between the developer and the publisher. Yes in general the developer gets less than publisher, but in most cases it's the publisher that is paying for the packaging/duplication and responsable for finding a distribution network. So, if it costs approx $5 per copy (CD, CD case, box, manual, all rwapped up in a neat package) the developer might only see $5-$10 per copy. The publisher will most certainly take as much (after expenses) or slightly more for his share. For example, $5(dev), + $15(pub $10 after expenses), + $5(dist), +$24.95(retail profit) = sale price $49.95 So, in this example as you can see the 'Retailer' gets the best deal/profit. In the case of a developer like Blizzard, they demand $20/copy and their publisher in turn asks for $25 and the distributors ask for their $5 then the retailer (who payes $50 for the game feels it necessary to make less profit in order to sell the game...Final price $79.95 to $89.95) Retailers don't like the 'big' companies mainly because they are forced to lower their profit to ensure the sale of the game... but I digress..

You must remember, the sales potential is much greater in retail, and the $5 the developer gets per/copy can end up being much more in the long run than a net only product. In this case I suggesteds that the game be available in both mediums. SO Aaron or MM wouldn't be making less, they would be opening up a new source of revenue in addition to the net only route!

In effect, If Aaron/MM want $12/copy He/they can get that, the only drawback is this will push up the final retail price. But if the game is good most consumers will be willing to pay the price.

Nuf said!

Cheers!

[ February 27, 2003, 20:36: Message edited by: David E. Gervais ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">DITTO

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

You know, I have seen forums bLasted many O'times by fans who feel cheated, disapointed, or out right ticked off about a new sequal to the game they love.

Tribes 2 was by far the worst. But hey, the game proved itself within a few months, and so will Moo3.

When SEV comes out, the same thing will happen, but on a much more profession level. We love this game, and only want it to succeed. So when SEV comes out, I won't be surprised to see some constructive feed back.

It always happens. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Damn, he should have put a link there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There forums are ablaze with upset fans. I hope the fans will give the game a chance, but I can also understand peoples anger toward poorly implemented games. (SimCity 4 was one for me.)

I am sure in a month, all the folks saying bad things will come to enjoy the game. Or perhaps they will invest in SEIV, and be around for SEV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ February 27, 2003, 22:03: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I do luv this game. I'm just surprised of all the companies that are like this that I still don't know about. I bought a war game that sounded interesting after reading a review from PC Gamer. It was another net only product. I tell you, if it wasn't for PC Gamer and some of the other magazines of that ilk, I wouldn't know of many of these products. And games like SE4 need to be promoted more than a 2 or 3 paragraph review in a magazine. But I know ads costs money too, so what you gonna do?

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My main point was 'visability' products that are only available through the net have a much more 'limited' audience..... In effect, If Aaron/MM want $12/copy He/they can get that, the only drawback is this will push up the final retail price. But if the game is good most consumers will be willing to pay the price.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">MM decided to go with Shrapnel precisely because they could not get a reasonable deal with any retail game publisher. Blizzard is not just a game developer, they are also a game publisher. There is a significant difference between the two things, and MM is not a game publisher.

Charging something like $60 for a niche game will drive sales down quite a bit, and would cause MM to make very little money.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This happened with SE4 when it came out too, you know. In fact, I was one of the people that did not like SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I wasn't very vocal at the time, but the spirit was there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 28, 2003, 00:46: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Ok, I have played the game for about three hours now. What do I think so far? It is a tremendous let down. Space Empires IV should never be compare to Masters Of Orion 3 ever simply because SEIV is a far superior game in every single aspect and regard.

I would fire the entire MOO 3 development team, and hire Malfador to design MOO 4. Great God almighty I can not believe that MOO 3 costs $50.00 bucks. The game is only worth about $10.00 dollars at best.

The graphics are pale, the UI is crap. The planets look like something you would see being displayed on an old 486. Hell the equipment at work has better looking graphics than the "System" display of newest Masters Of Orion game. And the equipment at work is circa 1980's.

For a complete review of MOO3, check the http://astmod.com web site on Sunday. I will be posting my thoughts, and a nice honest review of the game.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

wow, forums moving fast today here;)

so, out of curiosity, who's played moo3 so far?

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

I talked to a buddy of mine that bought MOO3 yesterday. His opinion: "Whoa! Does it suck!"

He says it has a few cool features but all in all, a big disappointment. I am, by the way, not gloating, as I had hoped it might be good, sigh. HOI was a major let down also. MTW, not too bad.

"Where have all the good games gone? Long time passing..."

SE4 is still the best game I've bought in the past few years.

[ February 28, 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: Tenryu ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

I have, and I had to stop before it put me to sleep. What a crappy game. God this game sucks so bad it has the gravitational pull of a mega super dupper galaxy sized black hole.

And I am usually very kind to games, but this game is just plain awful.

[ February 28, 2003, 03:30: Message edited by: CNCRaymond ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

well atleast their is

UFO: Aftermath

O.R.B.

IG3

Homeworld 2

Chrome

or worst case

UnderDogs.Org for some abandon ware.

And hopefully someone somewhere in the summertime *1 will release Super Nova...

*1 Simple Minds

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Galactic Civilization is coming out next month (3/25). It is also published by Infogrames. Hope that game is much better than MOO3.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

It looks like Master of Orion III is designed in such a way that you as the player will never need to or be able to control what is being built on the individual planet. In fact, there are many, many facilities that you absolutely must rely on the computer to build automatically. If you are looking for a game where you can tweak each planet, this is not that game.

I bought the game, and I don't like it. I want to be able to control what is built on each planet. But in this game, that just isn't possible. Oh well...

[ February 28, 2003, 06:54: Message edited by: raynor ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Let me start off by saying that I have been looking forward to MOO3 for a long time. I've followed the Boards and read all the hype. I'm not one of those folks who thinks that you cant like a variety of games about the same subject (4x in this case). I enjoy SE4 a lot, but the lack of AI and 'chrome' were things I hoped MOO3 would remedy.

But, after almost 12 hours of playing/fighting/reading/fighting with Moo3, I can say that the game is NOT fun. Its not rewarding. Its not addicting. The UI is TERRIBLE. Its meant to encourage 'macromanagement' by making 'micromanagement' almost impossible. Even tasks you'd expect to be fun like designing ships are a chore and filled with tedium and unintuitive menus.

I could go on and on about how frustrating the game is to play when you try to manage things and how empty it feels when you give up and play the way they intended you to. But what it all comes down to is whether or not the game is enjoyable. At this point, the verdict is a resounding "NO!". I'm not even sure patching would help. Its that bad....

Believe me, I tried to like it and I WANTED to like it, but in the end, I DONT like it. MOO3 is easily the most disappointing title I've played in a LONG time.

If you are thinking about picking it up, my recommendation would be to buy it from a retailer who allows open returns. There are some features that are really neat, but they're buried in a morass of contradictory info and needlessly difficult input screens.

Just my $.02 on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Talenn

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Restricted planet micromanagement I think is bad enough. I guess I would not even like to test it in this case...

Are you able to change AIs and similar things like game physics in MOO3?

EDIT: At a german CIV forum I have seen a mod has been about to close the MOO3 forum after 2 days of the game has been published. It looks like too many are disappointed and want their 50 bucks back. Infogrames strategy to publish MOO3 before GalCiv obviously has been correct from a capitalistic point of view.

[ February 28, 2003, 11:53: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I played the game 10 hours or so, then I pressed the uninstall button.
The good things of MOO3?:
-assembling of fleets (good for big numbers of ships)
-assembling of ground force armies
-possiblity to travel along star lanes or without them
-the orion senate system with bills and advantages if you are a member - similar to the board game twilight imperium
-ground combat system and the way ground combat units are handled (they are units similar to SE3)

the bad things of MOO3
cannot tell them all, too many. but the main thing told alreay Talenn in a post below. (inability to do much)

klaus

PS: I sell my copy for 20 euros or so at ebay

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Micromanagement should be possible from what I can hear out of the MOO forums, it seems you just have to click through zillions of windows to get down to e.g. planet facility level. And, it seems to be possible to change a facility in the AI queue and the AI changes the rest to match with this change (like build a research planet in case of the ruler spits in a comp. complex or similar).

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

psycho freak.
every detail of your explanation is correct.

klaus

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same story here. After I read that review by Trotter in PC Gamer, I fired up Google, went SE-IV huntin', found the Shrapnel Games web site, and the rest, as they say, is history.

I remember playing Reach for the Stars way-back-when on my Macintosh SE... remember those? The ones with the 40MB hard drives? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Then, years later, when I finally restored my sanity and bought a PC, I bought Master of Orion and rejoiced. I shied away from MOO2 for fear of just buying into the "same ol' same ol'". Besides, X-COM had started siphoning off all of my free time.

It's been a long time since I've had a chance to buy into a good 4X-style game. But now, I, like many others, am firmly Aaron's *****, and quite happy about it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'm enjoying the opportunity to kick back and watch the cat fights on that MOO3 board, while wrapping myself up in the warm, snuggly blanket of gaming goodness that is SE-IV.

You may puke now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

--Raynfala

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Two games that, I am convinced, could still do quite well today with just a graphics face-lift and a serious round of bug fixes:

* Master of Magic
* Magic Carpet

The presence of "Magic" in both games is purely coincidence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

--Raynfala

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Well, it looks like I posted my thoughts in the wrong thread, here they are for what they are worth
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=23;t=008017

Although there is a lot of modding potential in MOO3 (not as much as SE4), it has some pretty big flaws. I do not think Aaron has anything to worry about. Whereas, MOO2 was the standard by which most space 4x games were compared too (prior to SE4), SE4 is the new standard in my book now that the MOO series put out this flawed piece...

[ February 28, 2003, 15:35: Message edited by: Tampa_Gamer ]

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure that is true. As a player you can add Manufacturing/Mining/Farming/Research/Govt/Recreation to a DEA. But you can *never* add facilities that enhance the facility or DEA. Examples include:
Hydroponic Farm
Soil Enrichment
Spaceport
Deep Core mining

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Just for fun, I went to ebay and found 28 Moo3 for sale. Three days after release !!!
When I look for Space Empires - zero. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

lol oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

thats just hillarious

i can't believe the large number of beta testers didnt yell and scream about moo3...

seems like an old fashioned major screw up

poor resources, poor management, poor beta testers = major flop?

to be fair, there are a few of the beta testers that really like the game, they see the beauty in the spreadsheets...

**note to self**, never hire accountants to be beta-testers for games

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Is it true that none of the MOO2 team was in MOO3?

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes.

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

So, does this mean we should all replace our Death Shrine pictures with Rantz Hoseley's (or other appropriate MOO3 designer's) face? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suppose someone will lift some of the race pictures from MOO 3 soon, and maybe even the ship styles. It will take some re-editing to make the right images for the clases in SE IV but we could be playing against MOO 3 races by April or so... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

If I had the game, you could expect that sooner than April. But, I don't have the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?
 

Tampa, good to see you again, and nice review as always. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very well said.

I read the review CNC did, http://astmod.com/moo.htm and felt he was really dissapointed by the game. I have to agree that the game is not what I hoped for. I Thank God for SEIV, and the work Aaron has done in keeping it current.

Think about it, SEIV is a better game just in nearly every regard than Moo3, and SEIV is over two year old. I sincerely hope that those dissapointed folks over at the Moo3 forums discover the bliss of SEIV.