OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Today i saw a documentary about the first men on the moon. Apparently America wasn't ready yet to send pictures from the moon to home so they hired Kubrick to make a movie that showed the astronauts on the moon. Afterwards the CIA killed all people involved except Kubrick.

Now, the documentary didn't answer all the questions. Where they really on the moon?
I think so but they didn't have the capability to send live images home. So all people who watched the "live" landing on the moon where watching a movie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, Nixon had already taped a speech for when the astronauts would die. Pretty lame.
I'm not sure on how accurate the documentary was.

Any insights/comments?

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Did this happen to be on FOX? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

That particular show has been shot down so many times, in so many different ways its not even funny.

Phoenix-D

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

No, it was a French documentary shown on Belgian television. And the errors they showed in the movie from the moon where so enormous and rediculous it's hard not to believe it.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

I've heard all kinds of never-went-there arguments, and most of them can be discreditted except for one:

How did the astronauts survive outside the Van Allen belt? The Van Allen belt is an electromagnetic layer around the Earth that soaks up or deflects most of the harmful radiation from the Sun and makes life on Earth possible.

The moonshot spacecraft and/or spacesuits would not have offered any protection at all from that radiation- Neil Armstrong & co should have been turned to crispy bacon before they got anywhere near the moon...

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From:
http://www.thevoiceofreason.com/Conspiracy/moon.htm

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

China is planning to send people to Moon in five years. Then we will know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is't it ironic - it is entirely possible that soon China will be the only nation who send manned space expeditions ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif (shuttles are ground, russian space program has no money)

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think whoever wtrote this misunderstood the point being made. It's not the radiation *within* the Van Allen belt that's the problem- it's the unshielded radiation of the sun *beyond* the belt.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Hey. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
They where on the moon.
This conspiracy theory has been been answered to every thinking persons satisfaction over and over again.

It was a badly built up conspiracy theory when it was launched and it hasn't aged very well either.

I'm sure you can find the facts on plenty of places on the internet, try NASA or someother site and look for conspiracy or any such keyword.

(EDIT: look up these sites:
http://www.thursdaysclassroom.com
http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/index.html
http://www.lunaranomalies.com/fake-moon.htm
http://www.lunaranomalies.com/fake-moon2.htm
)

[ March 05, 2003, 11:14: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think whoever wtrote this misunderstood the point being made. It's not the radiation *within* the Van Allen belt that's the problem- it's the unshielded radiation of the sun *beyond* the belt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No actually you are incorrect D. Look up Van Allen Belt on google or something. It's a band of radioactive particles trapped by the earths magnetic field. Being in it for long periods of time is harmful to humans and even intrumentation. Passing thgouh it though doesn't cause significant damage beacuse the levels just aren't that high.

You are thinking probably of the general background radiation in space that we are protected from by our atmosphere and the magnetic field of the earth. This is a concern, one that we will have to resolve if we want to do any long-term trips to mars or other planets. But for a trip of a few days to the moon it's just not an issue.

At least not one that we are aware of. There may be some long term health effects of even short term cosmic background radiation, like increased risks of cancer or something. It's hard to tell though because we have such a small sample of astronauts to study and they are in such extrodinary health otherwise. But it's not like being cooked in a microwave oven.

Geoschmo

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Oh well, I jus ran a search for the Moon thing and EVERY hit I got were for people flaming the "moon hoax theory" and calling them crazy.....
If is a not a hoax, why they pay so much attention and expend so much money on those Moon-hoax -believers?
I need more info to make my mind, but is not looking good for NASA.
Though I must keep in mind that I'm biased against all goverments.
Wow!
They never went to the Moon?!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
This is better than the Evil Left Wing Conspiracy!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Spending a lot of money and attention, you say?
Got this from seeing lots of websites?
Maybe if they formed an "anti-moon hoax" committee and put ads on TV or in papers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Just shooting holes in crackpot theories can be fun, and if you post it on the web maybe you can get your 15 minutes of fame...

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh no, my dear, these were NASA people, as in NASA payroll, as in Taxpayer money.

[ March 05, 2003, 14:45: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

If people don't expend a little effort showing the falacies of the conspiracy theorists then you start hearing stuff like, "See, it must be true cause they don't even try to deny it." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Wow!
Now I know there is a conspiracy!
I've been clicking around in sites with names that suggest that they defend the Moon Hoax theory and it turns out that they are trying to convince me that the people behind the theory are evil and are doing this to get my money and are not qualified to "discredit" NASA's work!!!

Now I want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes!

Thanks Minipol for bringing this up.
I'm so happy that I live in the age of the internet and freedom......

Why would I believe in NASA?

Because they are the goverment?
Because everybody believe them?
Because I want to remain safely believing a lie?
Because I don't want to face the fact that NASA may have lie?
Because I don't want to be called crazy or stupid?
Because I don't want to disagree with the herd?

Hell no!
I want the truth!
Doesn't matter how much it hurts my dreams of reaching for the stars and offworld colonies.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

After searching through a ton of site with names like "Moon hoax", "Did we really land on the Moon?" and "The Great Moon Hoax" that were nothing more that counter-sites trying to silence the Moon Hoax theory, I finaly founded a real "Moon Hoax" site.

A funny thing happened on the way to the Moon

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because the incentive to lie in this case is not nearly as great as the embarasment if they lie and are found out.

Because the effort required to pull off a conspiracy of this magnitude would be easier and less expensive then actually going to the moon.

Because Nasa is run by scientists and engineers. Scientists and engineers can cetainly be wrong and like all humans they will frequently lie to themselves rather than face an unpleasant truth, but they don't make it a habit of lying to others.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Hey, let's all be thankful that it wasnt the "Van Halen" belt those poor astronauts had to go through, otherwise, having shaggy perms, playing loud guitar and wearing spandex troUsers may have seriously cramped NASA's style http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1-Because the incentive to lie in this case is not nearly as great as the embarasment if they lie and are found out.

2-Because the effort required to pull off a conspiracy of this magnitude would be easier and less expensive then actually going to the moon.

3-Because Nasa is run by scientists and engineers. Scientists and engineers can cetainly be wrong and like all humans they will frequently lie to themselves rather than face an unpleasant truth, but they don't make it a habit of lying to others.[/quote]

1-They are never going to be found out. For the herd, as long as the pack leaders doesn't say is true is not true.

2-You got to be kidding. Going to the Moon is the expesiest thing you can think of. And its not that a big conspiracy, just a 100 people or so, counting the movie crew and everything. Read the link i posted below for more info.

3-Nope, NASA is run by Politicians that were once engineers. You know that.

[ March 05, 2003, 15:58: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Oh, yes !

Good thing me is not only who dont take their medication ...

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or even worse, The Van der Valk belt: The 70s Ducth detective in the bad shirts and flares would have played merry hell with the telemetry.

This is a thread-jack. Hand over the topic and no-one will get hurt...

[ March 05, 2003, 16:33: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

or possibly even the "Van Rental" belt?

"Houston, we have a problem, a large fat balding oik driving a white ford transit has just cut us up and is hogging our orbit, he is also reading the News of the World whilst sticking his fingers up at us",

"Atlantis, are you reporting an Unidentified Fat Object?"

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

I certainly wouldn't put it past our government to try to fool us, but there is no way that they could cover up such a hoax. At the least, there would be Congressmen and Senators that were privy to that information, and that is a guarantee that it would be leaked.

Think of how much harder it would have been to cover up a fake moon landing than to cover up Watergate, and they were unable to do that.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Or the Van Dyke belt?

"That's one small step for man, one giant lea....Ahhhhh!"

Uh Houston, this is Buzz. I think Neal tripped over something. Looks like a large footstool shaped rock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

or the "Van Nuys" belt

"Houston, we have a problem, there is some hippy out here trying to sell Buzz some weed, two mexican gardeners are putting window boxes on the Eagle lander and two kids have stolen the moonbuggy and are joy-riding"

"Eagle? stone-groove man"

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not as bad as the Dick Van Dyke belt.

'Ere, 'ouston, we got a bit of an apples and pears problem 'ere, cor blimey guvnor bless my soul Merry Poppins...

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Hey stop making fun of Dutch names!

(but yes it's true, names like Dick and Dirk are actually quite popular down here...most parents are probably unaware of what it translates to in English

Henk

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK. That doesn't mean we have to stop taking the piss out of the Van Allen belt though. Watch:

Of course, worse than any of these is the Woody Allen belt (you see what I did there?). That's a field of neurotically charged particles ion orbit around New York...

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is probably the only accurate statement that came from the documentary, as you described it. Nixon did indeed have a disaster script made ready. I heard about this years ago, so I can't quote you the source.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

I wonder. Did the makers of Capricorn One know something, or is this an example of art imitating life? Personally, I can't imagine anyone in NASA trying to do the fake moon landing. There would be just too many people in the know to keep silent, and after 30 years, you know someone would have blabbed by now.

[ March 05, 2003, 18:02: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

They never went to the moon
They never went to the moon
They never went to the moon
They never went to the moon
They never went to the moon

I'm trying to put it in my head, to erase all that false information I got in school.
And the crap I got from Hollywood.

Oh my, who can I trust now?
What can I believe?
Why did I ever click on this thread?
I want my life back!!!

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do recall reading on one of the "moon-hoax-debunking" sites that the astronauts probably were bombarded by this radiation. The astronauts mentioned that, during their moonwalks, they would occasionally see these odd, inexplicable flashes of light. In all likelihood, this was the occasional cosmic ray penetrating their helmet and striking somewhere along the retina or optic nerve.

--Raynfala

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do recall reading on one of the "moon-hoax-debunking" sites that the astronauts probably were bombarded by this radiation. The astronauts mentioned that, during their moonwalks, they would occasionally see these odd, inexplicable flashes of light. In all likelihood, this was the occasional cosmic ray penetrating their helmet and striking somewhere along the retina or optic nerve.

--Raynfala</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't see how that would casue them to see light. Cosmic radiation does not induce synapzic potential if I remember correctly, neither should it excite the receptors in the retina.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Really? I haven't heard about it yet, just about Japanese plan to send a probe.
But what is the profit out of a money grave like a manned expedition to the boring trabant? Science?

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

From what I've heard China (sic) has plans to send a probe to the moon, but no actual plans for a manned voyage.

[ March 05, 2003, 19:59: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh... but think of the motivation. The Last pledge of a recently assassinated president was that americans would reach the moon before the end of the decade (and before those commie bastards too). The end of the decade draws nigh and there is no way you can do it. Failure would betray the memory of a dead president who had virtually been canonized by the american people and be an unbearable embarassment and show of weakness during the cold war (something that could NOT be allowed).

Taking all this into consideration perhaps it would be wise to, shall we say, bluff. And besides, its just so we can meet a deadline... yeah, thats the ticket. We would have gotten it eventually...

Let a generation or so pass and look how that one little event has so impacted the national psyche. Most of the people who were there are dead now so who is to say ant different? Besides, people want to believe it. How long can you lie to yourself before it becomes truth?

Saying that such a hoax could never have been perpetrated shows a gross lack of understanding of the human psyche, both of the perpetrators and of those who would be duped. Comparing it to watergate is pointless. People want to see powerful individuals fall. People are more than willing to believe in corruption. Now, you show people that they can do the impossible (giving them credit for it, however small) and you'll have to use the jaws of life and a cattle-prod to pry that belief from them.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh... but think of the motivation. The Last pledge of a recently assassinated president was that americans would reach the moon before the end of the decade (and before those commie bastards too). The end of the decade draws nigh and there is no way you can do it. Failure would betray the memory of a dead president who had virtually been canonized by the american people and be an unbearable embarassment and show of weakness during the cold war (something that could NOT be allowed).

Taking all this into consideration perhaps it would be wise to, shall we say, bluff. And besides, its just so we can meet a deadline... yeah, thats the ticket. We would have gotten it eventually...

Let a generation or so pass and look how that one little event has so impacted the national psyche. Most of the people who were there are dead now so who is to say ant different? Besides, people want to believe it. How long can you lie to yourself before it becomes truth?

Saying that such a hoax could never have been perpetrated shows a gross lack of understanding of the human psyche, both of the perpetrators and of those who would be duped. Comparing it to watergate is pointless. People want to see powerful individuals fall. People are more than willing to believe in corruption. Now, you show people that they can do the impossible (giving them credit for it, however small) and you'll have to use the jaws of life and a cattle-prod to pry that belief from them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Too bad that such a hoax was never perpertrated, and we did indeed send people to the moon.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Well, I have yet to see any proof that we didn't go to the moon, all the evidence against it that I have seen and read is either grossly innacurate or people jumping on the bandwagon and not noing anything about it.

Maybe his video shows full proof that there was a fake, unfortunately, he is asking $20 dollars for it, which proves to me he is no fighter for truth and justice, just a man out to make a buck, and probably just as morraly banckrupt as the people he claimed perpetrated this hoax.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-Wow, this is grossly innacurate, this really makes me question his credebility.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

If it was all just a hoax, why go to all the trouble of fabricating the near disaster of Apoolo 13?

If it was all a hoax, why stop with Apollo 17, instead of continuing the charade through all of the originally planned lunar missions?

If it was all a hoax, why didn't the numerous Soviet spies within Nasa reveal it for what it is? They would have been thrilled to expose such shenaigans to the rest of the world during the middle of the cold war.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh... but think of the motivation. The Last pledge of a recently assassinated president was that americans would reach the moon before the end of the decade (and before those commie bastards too). The end of the decade draws nigh and there is no way you can do it. Failure would betray the memory of a dead president who had virtually been canonized by the american people and be an unbearable embarassment and show of weakness during the cold war (something that could NOT be allowed).

Taking all this into consideration perhaps it would be wise to, shall we say, bluff. And besides, its just so we can meet a deadline... yeah, thats the ticket. We would have gotten it eventually...

Let a generation or so pass and look how that one little event has so impacted the national psyche. Most of the people who were there are dead now so who is to say ant different? Besides, people want to believe it. How long can you lie to yourself before it becomes truth?

Saying that such a hoax could never have been perpetrated shows a gross lack of understanding of the human psyche, both of the perpetrators and of those who would be duped. Comparing it to watergate is pointless. People want to see powerful individuals fall. People are more than willing to believe in corruption. Now, you show people that they can do the impossible (giving them credit for it, however small) and you'll have to use the jaws of life and a cattle-prod to pry that belief from them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would say, rather that it is currently in vogue (perhaps it always has been) to try to rewrite history more than it is that people of an era are so easily duped. It is not popular for Americans to have actually accomplished something significant, so therefore it must not have happened.

I do believe that the space program took the wrong turn at the point when President Kennedy made the pledge to put a man on the moon. We lost the development of reusable spacecraft in favor of the quicker-to-produce, one-time mortar shots that we got. Nonetheless, they did work, and I will need to see and hear far better evidence than I have seen to believe that the moon landings were fake.

Incidently, if the moon landings were fake, the Russians would have known about it, as they must have been tracking the spacecraft by radar. I doubt if they were in on the conspiracy.

And one final thought: if the program were a fake, Apollo 13 was sure an odd exercise to go through.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Beat me to it, Geo!

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehehehehe, now this is a good one. The "Van Halen" belt:

"Houston, we have a problem. An undertermined abstract whining noise is pounding our eardrums. NOOOO, the pain.. NOOOOO....." ... and then silence...
Van Halen did it again . Hehe. Nice one Tiger! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit: hhmmm one should read the whole thread before responding. there are already a zillion jokes in here going "Houston we have a problem". If i weren't so darn lazy i would delete mine. If you read this far: sorry for waisting your time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
But why are you still reading this?

[ March 05, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: minipol ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where's the proof? In one of your books?

* minipol just couldn't resist and now hides in the closet with one of Fyron's physics books as his only weapon *

Oh by the way, as i said before i think they did go to the moon but that the movie was fake. Big difference off course. The camera they had with them, seen in a few of those shots in the movie was incapable of making the shots at that kind of temperature or better differences in temperature.

[ March 05, 2003, 22:50: Message edited by: minipol ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where's the proof? In one of your books?

* minipol just couldn't resist and now hides in the closet with one of Fyron's physics books as his only weapon *

Oh by the way, as i said before i think they did go to the moon but that the movie was fake. Big difference off course. The camera they had with them, seen in a few of those shots in the movie was incapable of making the shots at that kind of temperature or better differences in temperature.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At the time, much of the news coverage was specifically labelled as "Simulation". The actual live pictures I remember were of rather poor quality, to say the least.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

Ruatha, i'll check out the links

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought the guy (not that I know who that was, I'm just stabbing in the dark) who was behind Capricorn One was someone who believed the moon landings were a hoax and wanted to make a film on a similar issue to 'show how it could be done'.

Not that I've heard any convincing arguments that the landings were actually faked - on Amazon.co.uk (not .com) try searching for the book Dark Moon and its reviews for a good example of pseudo-science being used to sell books (and being viciously debunked by those who know better).

Try here
(second review on this page really has a go at the book)

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I personally think that we did get to the moon. I was just responding to the notion that the perpetration of such a hoax would be impossible.

Nothing is really impossible. Probable? Well now, there's the kicker.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

FX weren't that good back then, a fake wouldn't have been believable.
But it's quite plausible it wasn't live, and the astronauts were secretly safe back home before they dared to make it public.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course, the best proof is that the astronauts left reflectors on the moon that had signals bounced off of them quite regularly.

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is believable. Why would they want to show them getting to the Moon, but dying before they got back? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course, the best proof is that the astronauts left reflectors on the moon that had signals bounced off of them quite regularly.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is indeed good proof. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 06, 2003, 05:48: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT. Where they really on the moon?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only reason that I would disagree with that is, again, that the Russians would have known, as would many other nations, because they would have been able to track when the spacecraft left earth orbit, and I doubt they would have cooperated. For that matter, it would have been hard to sneak an early lift off past the American public since the launch of a Saturn V was a fairly spectacular thing that was visible over a wide area.