Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

In some recent Neo Standard shipset ive been seeing some new images, namely Elite Infantry and Starliner.

Now i can more or less surmise the purpose of Elite Infantry, but what are Starliners supposed to represent.

And are their any mods that use the Civilean images?

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Look further on the neostandard page. It lists what mods use what images.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Yeah i know, but the entire Neo Site does not mention Elite Infantry, Starliner, or any Civilean vessels. At least none that i can find. Oh me be going to be getting confused! It am discomfuddling me speech.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Well then Dogscoff is behind there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Proportions Mod.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Civilian freighter and cruiser, used in my pirates shipset are designations used by the Pirates & nomads mod for tiny transport and scout.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Well then Dogscoff is behind there too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Shall we see in your words some kind of reproach ? Anything to blame on Dogscoff ?

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Well since it is my shipset you are commenting about. The Elite Infantry, Starliner, Starliner Large, Space Station Large, Battle Station Large , and Baseship Massive are used by Proportions Mod. There other images PvK uses in his mod. But at present he is the only one using them. But since I have read the 'VehicleSize.txt' files from all the mods. I imagine some or most of the images I made for the set will get assigned in every mod. Sooner or later. I will be adding other images to the Neo-Standard ++ as time goes, as well!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

I will be adding additonal sizes to the Gryphin Mod more for "fun" than "function". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
To give it variety and such.
They could be worked into a game where the objective is to get your Liner from point A to point B.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well it is his web site. If his web site is out of date, it is his fault, and no one else's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Well what do Starliners represent

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Go get Proportions and see what they do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

in the aicampaign mod, and quite possibly proportions since it was based off it as i understand, 1 million population takes up 1000 cargo spaces. the starliner is a specialized ship for ferrying 1 million or in the case of large starliner 2 million passengers to the new world. the other cargo vessels are not able to hold that much initially. personally i like the seperation of civilian and military vehicles, giving the civilian vehicles less maintenance cost but less combat capability seems more realistic also. plus the increase in the number of pictures gives more variety.

[ March 17, 2003, 05:26: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you mean exactly ? that new ship size should be added to the neo standard ? Don't you think this standard is big enough for shipset makers ? The neostandard++ seems a good alternative for shipsets maniacs...

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

No. The neostandard should not be arbitrarily cut off. Ship set makers do not have to make everything for the neostandard. They can chose to make as many or as few ships for it as they want. Breaking it into the ++ Versions creates needless levels of complication.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

OK, let's clarify a few things:

The neostandard has not changed. That's why I haven't changed the neo-standard website. The new images fall under mlmbd's "neo-standard++". Look it up in the Malfadorica for a list, although that list may yet be subject to revision.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Elite infantry and starliners are used by proportions.
I don't know what mod Baseshipmassive and Battle Station Large are used by, but it's not Proportions or Adamant mod.
As S_J points out, the civilian images are for P&N.
I believe most of the other ++ images are from adamant mod.
I don't think the extra satellite images are currently used in any mod, but I think they ought to be, since most mods feature small/medium/large sats anyway.

mlmbd's puntherraian set does have all the ++ images. TerranC's BoB set has some of them and a bunch of other stuff besides, my KanesS set will have a few ++ images, and I believe there are 2 or 3 other sets out there supporting ++ images, mainly the ones used proportions.

[ March 17, 2003, 08:44: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Adamant mod does use most of the neostandard pics though. I see no mention on the page. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're right Fyron, sorry. I'll go through your vehiclesize.txt and update it. I curretnly have the adamant alpha installed - will that be ok to use for this purpose or have there been updates?

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

All Versions of Adamant are alpha. There have probably been updates. I suggest you get the latest Version, cause I know some of the Versions changed pics called for and all, and I do not know what Version you have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Als, if you see any errors in the naming scheme, I'll fix them. Bioships should be using the same pics as the normal ship equivalents. If any of them call for different pics, it is an error, and is in need of fixing.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

OK, downloading v0.03.00 now. I'll update the html, but it might be a few days before I can upload it.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

dogscoff, <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Space Station Large, Battle Station Large and Baseship Massive will be used by Proportions. When the shipset was almost done I asked PvK what if any images he would like to have or was going to add to Proportions.

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Shouldn't "battlestation large" be "war station"?
(Its in the basic Neostandard list)

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Also, PvK implemented the Massive Baseship using the worldship image. It's in the latest Version.

Here's the entry from vehiclesize.txt:
Name := Massive Base Ship
Short Name := Massive Base Ship
Description := A massive mobile base.
Code := MBS
Primary Bitmap Name := WorldShip
Alternate Bitmap Name := WorldShip
Vehicle Type := Base
Tonnage := 5000
Cost Minerals := 10000
Cost Organics := 1000
Cost Radioactives := 4000
Engines Per Move := 100
Number of Tech Req and so on...

[ March 17, 2003, 15:43: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

What exactly is this Neostandard that everyone keeps talking about? Even before I lost my computer, I kept seeing this phrase. I'm not sure I was using any of these shipsets. Can someone explain exactly what neostandard stands for? Thanks

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Greg:
http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostand.htm

If that doesn't answer everything, try here:
http://www.invirtuo.cc/phpwiki/index.php/Neo-standard

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Ok. Thanks. I'll check them out.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it should. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Fyron and SJ, <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It proably should. My fault. But since Fyron is the only modder I have found that uses the War Station image. Might I suggest that Fyron (and who ever else it needs to be) resize the War Station to 2250kt. Then the bases, and the naming convention would be entact:

Space Station-500kt
Space Station Large-1000kt
Battle Station-1500kt
BattleStation Large-2000kt
War Station - 2250kt
Star Base - 2500kt

I did do the War Station image with the idea it was larger than the Battle Station Large!

Just a thought!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

dogscoff, PvK did his update before I did the images.
On his next update I would imagine the right images will be assigned. However I am not PvK. So, I can only assume he would use the images for his mod, that he ask (or mentioned) for. I would be glad to send you a copy of the emails between him and I. If you need!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

The latest in P&N PBW uses the warstation as well.

People rightly pointed out that when you can build mobile battlemoons, you should be able to build a stationary base comparable to it. So, I bumped up the Starbase, and slid in the Warstation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

Sounds like I may have made a mistake telling mmlbd I would add something between battlestation and starbase - I didn't have in mind that there was already "war station" in the neo standard, which would be the same thing. I'll probably still call it "large battle station", though, but use the war station image from the neo standard.

PvK

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It proably should. My fault. But since Fyron is the only modder I have found that uses the War Station image. Might I suggest that Fyron (and who ever else it needs to be) resize the War Station to 2250kt. Then the bases, and the naming convention would be entact:

Space Station-500kt
Space Station Large-1000kt
Battle Station-1500kt
BattleStation Large-2000kt
War Station - 2250kt
Star Base - 2500kt

I did do the War Station image with the idea it was larger than the Battle Station Large!

Just a thought!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about.... no. The Neostandard is not a rigid guideline of what ship sizes should be. It is only a relative guide. It is up to the modders themselves to determine how large a ship size is. I see 0 reason to have an extra size in between Battlestation and Warstation in my mod, so I won't add one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mlmbd, for one thing moving images around within the neostandard would require all existing neostandard sets being re-worked to reflect the change.

Secondly, as has been repeatedly pointed out before, the neostandard is not there to dictate hull sizes to mods. The warstation is not 2250kt or 1750kt or any size at all. If you look at the list you'll see that a warstation is is defined as "A base between BattleStation and StarBase". That's all. The size in KT is deliberately not specified because it is up to the modder to make that decision. One mod might want it to be 1600kt. Another might want it at 1850kt. Another might want their warstation to be 500 kt, with battlestation at 300kt and starbase at 750.

Further, if a modder wants to have a warstation that's larger than a starbase instead of smaller, all they need to do is use the warstation.bmp for starbase and use the starbase.bmp for warstation. It doesn't matter what all the images are called as long as there are enough of them.

It's about relative sizes, not absolute sizes. Names are utterly irrelevant - it would be better if the bmp files were named warship1, warship2, warship3 etc so that we didn't have to have this conversation.

If you think extra base sizes are required then you probably have a point and we can all talk about it, but we do not need to create a new image for every single ship size in every single mod. That goes against the whole point of the neo-standard which is that a small number of images are used to represent the widest possible variety of different ships in different mods, thus minimising the amount of extra images required by the shipset creator.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So why not look at the update to see what images would actually be required by the vehiclesize.txt?

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm coming down hard on you mlmbd, especially since I like the huge diverity in the Puntherraian set, but the point of the neo-standard was to minimise the amount of extra images, not maximise it. Your ++ extension set is a good idea, but I am worried that if we go too far with all these extra sizes and let it get out of control it will appear too confusing and daunting for people creating new shipsets.

SJ and Fyron; I didn't realise your mods use the warstation image. I'll update the list.

Everyone please excuse the excessive emphasis in this post.

Re: Starliner? Elite Infantry?
 

I withdraw my idea. Sheesh!

dogscoff, <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I assume modder's know what is out there. Especially thier own mods. PvK asked for some images, I gave them to him.

Pvk, I am sure you assumed I looked in all the vehiclesize.txt, as I did you. You did not ask for the Baseship Massive. I got that from your Mod thread.

SJ, I sit, corrected!

I will from now on just make images. No wieghts assigned to them. If modders want to use my images, they will.

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font