Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

That's the situation : My AI is at war with another AI. It's attacked in its systems, and for many turns, planets built nothing ! (only a base goes on building ships).
It's even more strange that there are plenty resources left.

What could be the problem ?

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Are there any riots?
Does the AI build absolutely nothing (no units, ships and facilities)?
How much resources do you have in store?
How much net resources per turn are produced?

[ March 18, 2003, 14:30: Message edited by: Rexxx ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Built your AI resource storages? I saw it in the past: if the AI has not some of them, simply doesn't build anything.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How do you check that planets do not build anything ? By looking on construction queu ? It may be misleading - AI may build units for one turn - it leaves queu empty at the begining. Or is it nothing build according to turn log ? If the latest, insert more calls for units in construction.txt file.

AI indeed like to use bases for shipbuilding reserving planets for unit building (ai never build units on orbital shipyards). Make AI build more base shipyards, it may help.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Another suggestion - maximise "percentage maintenance cost" or something like this in AI_settings. Make it 99% ! You may need to regenerate .emp file for this to take an effect.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

- no riot
- the AI build nothing at all (according to log)
- no ships left in space

current ressources :

http://diesel2035.free.fr/bugbuilding.gif

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Looking the picture, Trooper, must say that is exactly what I told you: build some Supply Storages and you will see that the AI start to build things again...

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

I'll try if the problem occurs again in the new game I'm testing. But the AI is supposed to do it alone...

Is there anything logical behind this behaviour ?

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it is. After all it is just a computer shuffling 0 and 1 in its memory. The problem is how to decifier its behaivor based on the output of our modding without any information about algorithms behind :} Would be no problem to Sherlock or Poir.
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[ March 18, 2003, 18:33: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Trooper,
If that is not a tested or true “ _AI_Construction_Vehicles File,
Check for Line gaps (no more then one) in-between AI states
Or try a few turns with a known working “ _AI_Construction_Vehicles File..

Note: You will need to quit and reload. Also may have to advance a few turns! After some AI File changes!
~
How many Colonies where there when you reported the Problem? If none or Full, this will explain no AI facility calls...
~
Are you using a "_AI_Construction_Units file in that race directory or AI default Sub directory? If not, this will explain why no AI unit calls.
~
Also must be sure that there are no files that have the names of other races in any one Race Folder.

[ March 18, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Trooper -
Follow MB's suggestion. At one point, it had seemed that the AI's percent to spend on maintenance value was tied to the amount of resources that could be stored, not the amount of resources that the AI has. Make some changes to the AI_Construction_Facilities file to have the AI build some resource starage facilities (you don't need to restart game, just change the file and make sure you completely exit SEIV and reload the game afterwards), you should see them start building again.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Troopers Empire Status, Pick shows no Maintenance (no Ships or Bases?) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
It sounds like the AI is looking for the New AI STATE vehical constuction calls, and can not find them!

IF all Planet facilities are Full and there is no Unit Const. fileS.. Then it should build a few ships or Bases at least!?!

Assuming the AI has designs!

That brings us back to _AI_Construction_Vehicles File.
Suspect typo error in or before the AI: Short Term Defense State. If this file was altered or not stock.
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[ March 18, 2003, 20:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But... Was not if fixed in 1.84 ??? Or AI is still underperforming ?

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a different problem.
Before the 1.84, using the line Maximum "Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 98", the AI had problems to determine if had reached this limit, because doesn't considered the bonus.
This problem was fixed.

The problem that Trooper have now, is that if the AI doesn't have some supply storage facilities, simply stop to build anything.
Think this trigger never was very usefull, but still is there.
Is like how the AI think: hey, I have not reserves, then, maybe is prudent stop to spend resources building things!

I can't consider it exactly a bug, but if the AI have enough production of resources, of course that doesn't matter if have some resources storaged or not...

[ March 18, 2003, 20:11: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

But... According ti Troop' screen shot, AI has NO maintenace, so storage should not be a problem ! Othrwise AI will never ever build a single ship at the start - almost same situation: 0 maintanace , no ships anywhere !

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a different problem.
Before the 1.84, using the line Maximum "Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 98", the AI had problems to determine if had reached this limit, because doesn't considered the bonus.
This problem was fixed.

The problem that Trooper have now, is that if the AI doesn't have some supply storage facilities, simply stop to build anything.
Think this trigger never was very usefull, but still is there.
Is like how the AI think: hey, I have not reserves, then, maybe is prudent stop to spend resources building things!

I can't consider it exactly a bug, but if the AI have enough production of resources, of course that doesn't matter if have some resources storaged or not...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would consider it is a bug; if above is the Problem (stops builds with surplus Resource), and there is no room for the AI to build a storage facility. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 18, 2003, 20:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Could be what JLS said.
It's true that the AI without supply storages, build things during some time before stop (if not, all the AIs would be unable to build anything!).

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have not problems if you think it's a bug.
Anyway, because every good AI MUST have some supply storages (to keep a reserve of resources), this bug will not hurt them.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have not problems if you think it's a bug.
Anyway, because every good AI MUST have some supply storages (to keep a reserve of resources), this bug will not hurt them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Unless there is no more room on Colonies for AI to build supply storages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If AI stops builds, then how can it build the supply storages Facility?

[ March 18, 2003, 20:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most the modders, included Supply Storage facilities in the Resupply Base, Military, Construction, and even some in the Mineral/Farming/Radioactive Planets. Then, is near to impossible to the AI, doesn't have a few supply storage facilities... And this is what you need to avoid the problem: only a few.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The AI still can build facilities, but not ships (I can't remember about the units).
And this behavior doesn't happen in the early game, then, usually the AI had time to build some resupply storage facilities...

[ March 18, 2003, 21:32: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Thanks MB http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now I understand your scenario , Troopers AI probably started next door to the other, causing this thing to happen, to soon in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 18, 2003, 21:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif No problem! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But after realize that in the image posted by Trooper, doesn't exist maintenance cost... I think that's more probably that your explanation, JLS, was more appropriate.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Either way, I just learned something MB !

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

Well, I don't know the reason for this, but it seems it doesn't occur in my current game.

I think it was a critical situation (no ships left, lots of colonies destroyed), and the AI algorithm didn't know how to cope with such a situation.

It was not a question of blank lines anyway.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No. I saw many many AI dying, and still they continue building things.

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have never seen the AI stop building, when it had a positive income! That was using a Unit Construction File and or there was a need for the AI to fill the PPI for Ships or Bases! As requested from the vehicle Construction file..

This in coincidence and consistent with the AI having the Maximum Empire Resource Storage, complete and filled.
~
However, I have seen these below conditions met by the AI with construction slowed or even halted, providing other AI files or conditions are true.

From TDM Abbidon settings: Maximum Maintenance Percent of Revenue := 80

From TDM Unit File: Percentage of Resources To Reserve For Unit Construction := 20

It is my opinion; that the above entries from TDM , are right on! Above, was used only for this example.

John
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[ March 19, 2003, 16:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In times when was doing my first AI (the Pyrochette), I saw this problem.
And was not related with the settings you named.
Really didn't knew the reason after 1 or 2 weeks, until Tampa_Gamer told me that I needed to include supply storage facilities...

Re: Ai testing : what to do when the AI stops building ?
 

I've had this happen with a couple of races, where they stop building anything. Every time, the race in question has had no storage facilities, and a fairly low income {<10000} the race then seems to just quit and not do anything {they have even stopped using the satellite and mine layers they did have}. All of them have started to build again if a starage facility was built or they were able to colonize a new planet with an existing colonizer.