Quantum Reactors
 

Does one reactor supply a whole fleet, does each individual ship need one or can you make a supply ship with multiple reactors for the fleet?

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, a Quantum Reactor supply a whole fleet. With only one ship with this, all the fleet will have resources.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, during normal turn movement a QR will supply the whole fleet (topped off at the end of the turn).

In combat however all ships use supplies and it is possible for non-QR ships to run out of supplies in combat, even if they are in a fleet.

Slick.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

missed it by that much!

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What kind of supply sucking high energy cannons do you use to run out of supplies? The engine supplies should be completely filled at the beginning of the combat in case of a QR in a fleet. The engines should provide enough supplies even for components like planet crunchers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

How about if your ships get hit by Ionic Dispersers? If all that the ship has is engines (no supply pods or QR), it will be out of supplies, and unable to fire (assuming the ID gets past the shields). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This is why QR on every ship, or a Supply Storage on every ship, is a good idea.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What kind of supply sucking high energy cannons do you use to run out of supplies? The engine supplies should be completely filled at the beginning of the combat in case of a QR in a fleet. The engines should provide enough supplies even for components like planet crunchers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, actually, the supplies are only completely filled for the FIRST combat in a given turn. So, if your fleet is engaging in multiple battles, it's quite possible to run low on supplies. I've noticed that missile-armed ships have this problem, especially when you're trying to glass multiple planets...

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What kind of supply sucking high energy cannons do you use to run out of supplies? The engine supplies should be completely filled at the beginning of the combat in case of a QR in a fleet. The engines should provide enough supplies even for components like planet crunchers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take a look at the supply usage of Capital Ship Missiles.

Slick.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

QR's give too much. I say ban them!

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I say increase their size to 500kt and raise their cost to 50k.

Or ban them. Or something.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Yes, the QR is too powerful. Many people have been requesting that MM change it to produce only a certain amount of supplies per turn. There is a difference between infinite supplies at a fixed rate of production and infinite supplies at an infinite rate of production. It wouldn't be that big a change, either. He'd only have to change a few lines of code somewhere. We just have to get enough people to ask for it to convince him.

[ March 18, 2003, 17:49: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Never tested it, but does QR replenish supplies of a ship DURING combat ?

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

i hope they wouldnt remove the quantum engine ability all together, just add a new ability to generate x-amount of supplies per turn. that way you could have different levels of ability.
what does the supply generation ability do? i know what the solar supply generation does, but could supply generation be the ability you are asking for?

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I say increase their size to 500kt and raise their cost to 50k.

Or ban them. Or something.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or accept that they have been part of the game since at least SE3 where they were even more effective than they are now.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Proportions treat QR rather gently, you may check how PvK moded it.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

You can always mod a special ships plating of solar panals or a large efficient solar sail.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Solar panels are not a good solution, because their generation is dependant on the stars in the system.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

My understanding is that the QR is "too" good.
The Solar Sails have limitations. The amount of juice they generate is moddable.
What am I missing here?

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Solar collector generation is based off of stars in the system. This is not what QR are supposed to do. They should not be dependant on the number of stars for supply generation. This is why it is an imperfect solution. What we need is an ability that generates X supplies per turn, period. No dependance on stars or anything like that.

[ March 18, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What kind of supply sucking high energy cannons do you use to run out of supplies? The engine supplies should be completely filled at the beginning of the combat in case of a QR in a fleet. The engines should provide enough supplies even for components like planet crunchers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take a look at the supply usage of Capital Ship Missiles.

Slick.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or Wave-Motion Guns (they use even more supplies than CSM's...)

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

What's all this about banning QR's? I want to be able to tool around without having to worry about gassing up. Once a certain level of technological advancement is achieved energy reserves should no longer be a limitation.

Besides, it cuts down on the micromanagement. Any fleet with a propperly equipped supply ship or two doesn't really have to worry about running out of fuel. QR's just allow you to send smaller Groups (or lone vessels) out to do what a larger fleet was once needed for. That, I think, is the heart of advanced technology.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

QR's remove a major strategic element from the game for very little cost. That is the crux of the problem. 1 QR keeps a 5000 ship fleet supplied each turn. This is extremely unrealistic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Yeah, quantum reactors are unrealistic. If we could really build those, then we just build one quantum reactor on the ground, and be able to power the entire world with it.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Actually, the solar collectors already provide more than you're suggesting there.

1 engine's fuel for 1 mp = 10 supplies.

Of course, 6 engines going 1 mp use 60 supplies,
and 6 engines going 6 mp use 360 supplies.

For P&N PBW, I've gone with making the quantum reactor a giant supply storage bay.
3x the supplies per KT compared to the best "standard" supply tank, but 3x the cost, and its BIG so it needs to be on a dedicated supplyship until you get the really big hulls.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

SJ,
Correct which is how I use them in the Gryphn Mod.
I don't think Fyr on wants that strong of a power source. I sence he wants it to be more limited.
Perhaps he will contradict me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I agree.

Limiting the QR to the ship it is installed on is a solution. That would be analogous to the reactors on US Carriers.

Or, as has been suggested, limit its production of supplies to a set amount.

I too dislike the micromanagement in the middle and end game. And at first I thought it would increase it significantly. Uggggg!!!!

But putting a QR on each ship would actually reduce it a bit, since one would no longer have to produce supply ships (a ship with a QR) and make sure there is a supply ship with each fleet.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

But even so, the reactors on those carriers don't produce food, ammo, and other consumables required by the ship, just electrical power.

Personally, I'd separate that power requirement out into a rads maintenance cost, and leave supplies to be the physical resources needed

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

The reactors also provide heat to make drinking water and provide for propulsion. But isn't the idea similar to the "replicator" on Star Trek? i.e. you can make most "supplies" if you have enough energy to convert?

Slick.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who? Fyron? Contradict someone? Surely not...

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Ok, got it.
If I understand correctly you, (Fyron and others) would like to remove the omnipotent QR from the game and replace it with something that generated a lot fewer supplies. I’m guessing you would like a device that would generate enough supplies to:
Generator I – Generates the equivalent of one engines usage in one full movement.
Generator II generates the equivalent of two engines usage in one full movement
Or something like that.
Nice Idea, wish I had thought of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Also, as far as propulsion is concerned, you need some sort of reaction mass to push the ships forward, unless you're using some sort of photonic or gravitic drive.

I happen to think that the Solar Panels are terribly misnamed. You can't generate fuel just by having photoelectric cells gathering energy. If anything, they most represent hydrogen ramscoops, which still would allow them to function as described in the game. However, they should be even more efficient when passing through nebulae, since hydrogen is abundantly available in such systems.

Maybe nebulae systems should hide 10 stars or so to help represent that, so that when you destroy a nebula, you have a bunch of protostars that were condensing (which you just helped along).

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

No, what I (and others) want is a new and separate "generates X supplies per turn" ability that has nothing to do with stars. Limiting the QR (or any supply-generator) to only work on the ship it is on is bad. The quantum reactor ability is fine. More modding options is what I want, not fewer.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know what you mean, but regardless, reaction mass and power supply are two different things.

Making it the option that QR only works on one ship is good though.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know what you mean, but regardless, reaction mass and power supply are two different things.

Making it the option that QR only works on one ship is good though.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No it would NOT be a good thing to cancel the benefits of fleeting. Supply sharing is the second benefit of being in a fleet after coordinated movement. All we need is for the QR ability to take a setting that controls how much supply it generates per turn. If you still want unlimited supplies then it could default to that if you leave the setting at 0.

[ March 22, 2003, 05:14: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Hotfoot, supplies aren't fuel. Notice how they're also used by every weapons system, not just the engines.

Phoenix-D

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Do you know if it's possible to mod a component that has a negative supply usage?

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Posted by Kamog:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take a look at Devnull Mod. I believe that may be what Rollo did with the Space Monsters.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Making it an option would be a good thing. What would it hurt to make it an option that would be default as ON, but could be turned OFF by a simple mod?

Or you could add another layer of complexity, saying that supplies generated by the QR aren't compatable with supplies generated elsewhere, and as such cannot be shared with any ships except those specially fitted with quantum reactors or quantum reactor-comptatable systems (maybe a QR-Fuel Adapter device to put on ships). That would even allow more customizations to follow by allowing races to have radically different and more "alien" technologies. Again, this could be an option, and the base game wouldn't even notice the difference.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're right. But the point is that supplies represent something physical, in other words, matter of some sort, not just energy. As far as energy weapons are concerned, that could be reactor fuel to power the generation of the energy beam (nuke-pumped X-Ray lasers, for example). For missiles, (which have one of the highest supply drains per shot of most any weapon), it could easily be explained as fuel for propulsion of the missile plus the actual warhead. DUCs break the trend, but you could consider the low supply usage equivilant to just taking a small bit of depleted uranium (waste supplies) and using a little reactor power to propel it towards the target.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

"But the point is that supplies represent something physical, in other words, matter of some sort, not just energy."

As evidenced by the solar panels..they don't. Heck, even the QR implies they don't, but with that things power generation you could probably use good ole E =MC^2 and get mass -that- way.

Phoenix-D

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

They are "solar collectors" even though the image looks a lot like a solar panel.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hence why I said earlier that the solar collectors seem to act more like hydrogen ramscoops than as actual solar panels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Quantum Reactor is magic tech as it is right now, so can do basically whatever it wants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

[quote]Originally posted by Hotfoot:

Quote:

Originally posted by Phoenix-D: The Quantum Reactor is magic tech as it is right now, so can do basically whatever it wants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can it make Mr. Bigglesworth* have hair again?

*) Obscure movie person. First person to guess who gets free drink on me whenever new Cantina opens. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

[quote]Originally posted by Ragnarok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hotfoot:

Quote:

Originally posted by Phoenix-D: The Quantum Reactor is magic tech as it is right now, so can do basically whatever it wants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can it make Mr. Bigglesworth* have hair again?

*) Obscure movie person. First person to guess who gets free drink on me whenever new Cantina opens. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not so obscure. Mr. B. is Dr. Evil's cat.

Slick.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, so it wasn't obscure. But hey! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You get a free drink on my tab for figuring that out.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

A QR with a "generates X supplies per turn" ability could be enough to supply a single ship forever and work in a vary similar way it does now, only that not enough for a large fleet.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

Hotfoot mentioned, "hydrogen ram scoops" that worked in nebula.
That would be an interesting component to add to the game.
Something that could pickup supply from nebula.
Mabe something that could have extractors that worked in an astoriod field.
Probably won't happen but nice idea.

Re: Quantum Reactors
 

About those solar collectors:

Some time ago(a year perhaps) one scientist refreshed the idea of electomagnetic movement. And it really works. And in vacuum too. You surely know what I am speaking about. Triangle that moves up if you power it with electricity. This effect is not fully described yet. The only problem is it's hugh energy cost. To levitate with say 20cm x 20 cm x 20 cm triangle you need a car-battery size battery. If you can effectively convert sun energy into electric energy and you don't have problems with great weight this model works very well.
(In fact the discovery of that triange indicates MANY possibilities.)

For those who would like to know how this thing works(You can make this thing at home, but don't do this if you don't know what you are doing): Make 2 triangles of same size. One big(aluminium) and one small(normal wire). Connect + to one triangle and - to the other. Plug it to really strong battery. Watch it fly.