Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

and have orders to capture enemy ships in the fleet order, but I have yet to capture a ship, what am I doing wrong. Well, wrong as far as trying to get enemy ships, if you knew me I am sure you would have OTHER comments http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Does the ship design have Board Ships (or Capture Ships, I forget which) as it's strategy?

When enemy ships are all shielded, boarding ships flee to the corners (in Strategic Combat). They only come forward once there is a ship with no shield points remaining. But, the war ships tend to blow them up before the boarding ships can get there, so the boarding ships flee to the corners again.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

I am using the FQM DLX Mod, and it has Capture Enemy Ships as the fleet orders and the bording ship has the same order.

Humm, I just got an enemy colony ship, so it must be as your saying, if the bording ship can get back in time before the attack ships finish them off.

[ March 22, 2003, 23:30: Message edited by: Narrew ]

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

First Question: The enemy ships had Master Computers or standard crew?
For example, a Boarding Party 1 is not enough to board a Dreadnougth with standard crew... then, the boarding ship will run like a chicken instead board the enemy ship.
Second question: the enemy ships had their shields down? Because a boarding ship can't board a ship with shields working.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

from Master Belisarius:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quite right! A basic boarding ship has boarding parties and shield depleters. The shield depleters will keep them at the front of the battle instead of running to the corners-- they will either attack shielded ships with the depleters or attack unshielded ships with the boarding parties. A win, win situation.

(Note: The prerequisite for shield depleters is shields IV.)

Kim

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

thanks for the shield depleter info, I have some point defenses on the ship atm, so I can swap a few out.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you sure about that? When I make boarding ships with Shield Depleters, they run for the corners instead of attack shielded ships. Was something changed in the Last patch that alters this?

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Actually, shield depletors are not prerequestive. Any direct fire weapon capable hurting ships will suffice. There were no changes in 1.84 regarding boarding ships AFAIK. There must be some mistakes in Fyron' ship design and/or strategies, I do see perfectly normal ship cupture in my games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

I agree with Oleg. Any direct fire weapon will do. Shield depleters seem the best choice to me on a boarding ship once they are available. Fyron, I have never had problems with SD equipped ships running for the corners. For me they work just fine. My strats are "board enemy ships"/"point blank".

Point defense are a bad choice. The ship will run to the corner unless missiles, fighters, sats or drones are available to target... and missiles must be in flight, not onboard a missile ship.

[ March 23, 2003, 18:12: Message edited by: Grandpa Kim ]

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Ive made some specific all point defense "missile destroyers" early in the game to offset any attacks, and without manual control, they cower, unable to provide any sbustantive defense, even though they are labeled "defensive ship"

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

I have also read in a previous post that the AI knows if the enemy has a self-destruct device and it will not attempt to board.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Add a single weapon that can damage your enemy's units (ships, usually).

PvK

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Also note that the boarding attempt is made before weapons are fired. What does this mean? shield regenerators will make a ship invulnerable to one-on-one capture attempts. This is because the targets shields always regenerate a bit before you can board and you have to wait till next turn before you get another board attempt. Viscious circle ain't it?

So always make sure that you have at least two shield depleter boarding ships (or at least another depleter equiped ship) so that you can tag-team and get past that annoying glitch.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

About boarding ship movement, it tends to be weird. I was working on a race mod a while back that used boarding parties almost exclusively and some odd things would pop up. Such as movement working fine on ships up to @500-600kt but larger hull sizes (with virtually identical configurations) would spasmodically twitch in one place until an enemy happened to come within range, from then on it would lurch after its attacker in a severely crippled manner. Watching the strategic replay was like seeing a wounded mosquito having a seizure. This was not due to damage of anything else, the boarding ship would emerge intact.

I only tried out a small test of it a while back in 1.84 but it seemed to be doing better. I should go back and test it out a little better sometime.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok... then there is a problem with the default strategies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It may be because AI "fires" weapons according to its placement by design.txt file. Usually boarding ship has "boarding attack" as a "must have ability", which is also "majority weapon". Thus, ship tries to board first and only then uses "secondary weapon". Try "must have" to be a "weapon" (with appropriate weapon number as a majority component and "boarding attack" being one of miscellaneous abilities. If it does not work - ship does not board at all - simply add "boarding attack" as miscellaneous ability to the existing ship design. May be it will try board and fail, then will use weapons and board again !

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Oleg:
Nah, the ships were created manually with boarding parties after weapons. I think that it's just hardcoded to do that. Perhaps in an attempt to let you take a ship before your weapons blow it to smithereens.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

another question:
if i have a ship with say 5 shields and 1 shield regenerator, are all 5 shields regenerated or only 1?

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pitty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Preacherman:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shield regenerators regenerate points. They don't depend on shield generators. So you can have 20 shield generators and 1 regenerator and still regenerate only 25 points.

I dont't see the point in having them. Maybe for capture ships, but if you reach their tech the enemy probably has dreadnoughts with enough firepower to bLast your ship apart in 1 round. Here help 375 points of shields more than minor regeneration. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

Some things I am not sure about:

1. Does ship size have any effect on Boarding parties strength? My experience is that even escort with boarding parties 5 can take over dreadnought. (It shouldn't) If it does play any role then what?

2. Does here play any role ground combat from racial traits? (It should)

3. Can you override AI to try to capture enemy ship even when it has self-destruct device? This can be nasty kamikaze tactics.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1. Yes, in that Crew Quarters count as defense against boarding, but not nearly as good as Security Stations. See Newbie FAQ for numbers.

2. don't understand the question.

3. Yes in turn based games. No in simultaneous games.

Slick.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

I meant that there is almost no difference in fignting aboard a ship and on the ground. If you are big, tough and know how to fight and the enemy si small, weak and doesn't have a clue about fighting you are going to win. It applies to ships and ground combat alike(or should).

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It should, but it does not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3. Yes in turn based games. No in simultaneous games.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you positive about this? When I was testing out that racemod of mine I occasionally lost a dreadnought to a lingering SDD. It was very annoying. Granted, I gave all SDD's the doarding defense ability and gave the attackers the a "Boarding Cannon" with 'damage only security station' as a damage type. Perhaps that had something to do with it, perhaps not.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It should, but it does not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not necessarily. There is a big difference between massed ground-force battles and urban/close quarters combat. Having to navigate through the tight, maze-like interior of a ship (or building) reqires a different set of skills, and a different mindset. Excelling at one wouldn't necessarily mean skill at the other.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

There are other issues to ship boarding combat, as well, such as dealing with ship defenses such as control of doors, air lock, and life support, not to mention security devices, breaching the hull, remaining docked to the enemy ship as it tries to break free, and the need to deal with the alien environment, including different corridor sizes, artificial gravity, unfamiliar devices, etc.

PvK

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

I didn't explain myself clear enough. I meant that if you are genetically a good soldier with proficiency in hand-to-hand combat(and the percent of ground combat should reflect this) you should also have advantage against weaker foes wherever you choose. Would it be ship, battlegroud, city or anywhere else. Of course you have to recieve a special training but we are talking about boarding parties. These units have surely recieved special training.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3. Yes in turn based games. No in simultaneous games.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you positive about this? When I was testing out that racemod of mine I occasionally lost a dreadnought to a lingering SDD. It was very annoying. Granted, I gave all SDD's the doarding defense ability and gave the attackers the a "Boarding Cannon" with 'damage only security station' as a damage type. Perhaps that had something to do with it, perhaps not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only way to be positive is to get word from MM, which I haven't pursued on this issue. However, I was speaking about the unmodded game, so if you modded components, I can't speak for that.

But from personal experience and from several reports from others, I can say that this has been the case and I haven't seen anything to disprove it. It's not really logical to say that "something doesn't happen because I haven't seen it happen".

There are some good AI's out there that use boarding parties. Maybe you could satisfy yourself by testing one of those. Space Vikings is one.

Slick.

Re: Ok, I built a ship with alot of boarding parties...
 

I am fairly certain that boarding ships try not to board ships with SDD in strategic combat. And even if they do, so what? You lost a cheap destroyer, they lost a dreadnought. You come out ahead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif