Proportions any good for single player?
 

Hello to all Proportion players,
I was wondering how was proportions was at single player? I know that by design the game is for PBM but I am not really a PBM player and really enjoy playing on my own. And Proportions seems like a great mod and I would like to play but if the AI doesn't provide a good challenge then I guess I won't. Can anyone elaborate on the AI?

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

I only play single player, and i only play Proportions.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Play with AI hard and low bonus. Then upgrade to medium bonus for the second game.
Small quadrant also helps the AI.

I'm thinking about re-starting with an small quadrant, no neutrals, AI hard, AI medium bonus, and 4 AI races
1-Drushocka
2-Krill
3-Jraenar
4-Xiati

I've heard the XiChung is the most agressive AI, but I don't like their shipset. The Amonkrie is also good, but I want to play with only 4 AI races so I don't have to scroll in the diplomacy screen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Me too ! Proportions from Gold CD is not refined, you need the latest Version (2.5.3) from PvK' page. The latest SE patch (1.84) is also required. You may also want some latest Proportions AI, I uploaded them in race dowload forum. Use AI bonuses and good luck !

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

I think Proportions is for SP, not MP. It takes too long to work well with PBW, unless you have just a small group of players that can play many turns at a time. The pace of Proportions is too slow for general PBW use.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How do you pick a specific number of AI enemies? I know you can put low, but how do you get 4, or 5 or whatever number you want?

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Absolutely YES, Proportions may be the Best MOD in respectes to being user friendly; and I think you will find it very realistic as well.

In respects to multiplayer, we think Proportions plays very well, do to the fact you start with a Large Empire Storage, nice well balanced starting research and Resource production from the Home World; that is a much Larger starting income then most Mods and Base Space Empires. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 25, 2003, 22:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Yes, but Proportions games take 100s and 100s of turns to play out. This is too many for general PBW use. It is fine with a small group of dedicated players, but takes too long when you just have a group of random players.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

It plays great in LAN Play, with 3-4 human Players!

[ March 25, 2003, 22:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Select zero generated AI enemies. Then add the ones you want as players, and specify computer control for them.

PvK

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That depends on how you set up the game, and what kind of a game you want.

If you expect to start with a single low-tech planet, and populate the entire quadrant and reserarch everything in the tech tree until it's no longer fun to play without wiping out everyone else, like in the unmodded game, then yeah that would be hard to do in the time span of a typical unmodded game. Of course.

If you want to have an intense war in a couple-hundred turns, use a small quadrant (or an edited maps where the homeworlds start out within a system or two of each other), and/or use multiple homeworlds per player.

Or, turn blitz/autorun for the first 150+ turns, then let the game start.

Etc.

PvK

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LAN is wholely different from PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif LAN games have lots of time at once to be played. PBW games typically have 1 turn per day (or every other day).

PvK: <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it does.

In the unmodded game, I never wait until I have finished the tech tree before attacking other empires. Sitting around doing nothing for many turns in a row is not my idea of fun.

The game is about conflict, after all. Why would so much of what you do have to do with military strength if it weren't? In Proportions, it takes a long while before you can get enough forces to have meaningful conflicts (esp. when trying to attack HWs).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would rather not have to wait a couple hundred turns before having an intense war.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is an option, yes. But, I would rather be in control of my empire for the entire game. I don't want to have to spend a lot of time fixing the problems the AIs caused.

[ March 25, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Select zero generated AI enemies. Then add the ones you want as players, and specify computer control for them.

PvK</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was hoping to download Proportions Last night, but even though I got my internet server set up, I couldn't find any phone cords long enough!! My wife made me move my computer desk into the bedroom, and the plug is in the dining room. AArgh! I'm definitely going to play this game tonight, after I go to the store.

[ March 26, 2003, 15:50: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Fryon, in most PBW games I've seen, players often do wait 100+ turns colonizing and researching everything in sight until they run out of things to develop and improve, before doing much fighting.

In Proportions, you can start building a war fleet more or less immediately, just based on the homeworld economy. Colonial development and research are the main things that are slower in Proportions, but:

1) Doing a lot of colonial development will actually slow down your war production.

2) Since research rate and resource production are not majorly affected by colonial development (as they are to a huge degree in the unmodded game), there is no need for a rat race to colonize and develop.

3) Since most tech areas can't be researched "to the end" in a practical amount of time in Proportions, the common un-modded practice of "waiting for the best stuff before doing anything, because the early stuff is obsolete before it sees action" doesn't make much sense in Proportions.

Of course, as with many aspects of Proportions, players may not realize the implications of all the changes, and may tend to stick to habits formed with the unmodded game, including thinking of the play cycle as the same way. Players who think the goal is to reasearch and colonize everything, might die of old age before they "complete" a game. On the other hand, I think JLS' group has completed several multiplayer games played with a the idea of having a quick war from the beginning.

In my PBW Proportions game, we're only about 100 turns in, and already one player homeworld has been lost to another player, and everyone seems to have a capable fleet. It's also a large quadrant. At closer quarters, we could have seen serious fighting even earlier.

PvK

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

I LOVE this mod...also find Derick's (sp?) this is a good one too!

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can’t count how many LAN games we all have been played with Proportions… It certainly is over a few Dozen with 3-4 Player games going sometimes simultaneously.

We much prefer Proportions 2.22+ over any MOD today for multiplayer LAN play.
When any Human Player starts (next door) to a Violent or aggressive AI early, all Human Players that can help, usually do help, in that AI War…

How ever with over 18 in the LAN group, there is a very Diverse Way, we each Play Proportions. Actually you could find a style of play that would match every Culture and Demeanor from this group that resembles SE IV. I would put myself in the Aggressive Honorable Merchant type Category of average Play with other Players ranging from over aggressive to excessively conservative in play and we have competed in many wide-ranging games from 100 turns to more then a thousnand turns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
With above said, I also want to reiterate how seamless Proportions plays in Solitaire as well; in all turn based games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John

[ March 27, 2003, 17:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only when you have lots of players on a huge map. Play games with smaller maps in the future. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Finally got play Proportions Last night. It's definitely different and as good as everyone is talking about. But I have a question. I usually start a game with homeworld value set as good and have 10 planets. Should I start smaller, say 1 or 3 planets?

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Proportions is designed for a one-planet, low tech start. Go for 10 homeworlds if you want, but I'm not sure how well it will work. I'd be interested to hear about it though.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, proportions setup implies one homeworld. That's what we have in a real life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Multiple homeworld make research and production way to fast - there is no need to colonize whatsoever, game will be over before you build a first meaninful colony.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Multiple homeworlds will tend to throw things a bit off - it multiplies the rate of reasearch of the whole game, although if you set "high" research costs, the research rate might stay more interesting than the unmodded game. The AI might be at a disadvantage, because I suspect it probably won't be able to scale very well to take advantage of the multiplied resources, but you can help it out by giving it a bonus.

This would be a way to get a Proportions game that seems "as fast" or "faster" than the unmodded games, at least for the time required for humans to develop powerful war fleets. If you wanted to do a PBW game focussing on large-scale combat using the Proportions changes to equipement, fighters, etc, a ten-planet start with high research cost might be a reasonable way to do it.

PvK

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

I don't think AI works well in 10 homeworld start even with high AI bonus - Construction_vehicles.txt will need major changes, like increasing all "must have" by at least an order of magnitude ! AI will simply underperform with this game setup.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

Well, I decided to start more slowly and do the one planet way. I guess you got to take those baby steps first before you can run a marathon.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I would expect this kind of Posts in "another heated..." thread, but here ? Did you run into Xi'Chung right from the start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I would expect this kind of Posts in "another heated..." thread, but here ? Did you run into Xi'Chung right from the start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can't remember the name of the race, but it was pretty quick in starting to kick my butt. I think in turn 3 or 4. And since this was my first time playing Proportions, I wasn't quire ready for that. So I started another game with just one planet to feel my way around the game.

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

One planet start is the way to go. Just don't forget to upgrade to prop 2.53 and lmy atest AIs scattered all around this forum before PvK pull them all together http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions any good for single player?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do have 2.53, and I'll keep looking for those AI's. But PVK was right. In single player mode, it does take a long time to do things.