is there a thread on proportions
 

I am going to be playing my first PBW game and they will be using the proportions mod and I wonder if there is a thread out there (as I type this I think I will just use the search feature, dugh) or is there another site that covers it in more debth?

Thanks again

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Rough description:
Encyclopedia Malfadorica

You find a link to Proportions HP at the end, I propose to read through the Mod documentation at the end, it's easier than trying to follow discussion threads.

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Post any specific questions here and you'll get an answer soon enough...

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Some hints:
1. MOST IMPORTANT: In your empire setup (if you can still change it) you should try to get some political bonus by cultures or characteristics, search for trade and research alliances !

2. Research Computers (for the homeworld).

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

One of the things I am wondering about, the HW starts out with a Resupply Base which is not needed, what do most of you replace it with (ie research). Right now in a solo game I have just been building Research I centers on my newly colonized planets (the cheapest thing to make).

In the doc for Proportions it mentions that once you get to 50 mil pop the build speed curve tapers off, do you get a planet to 50 mil then go to other planets and get them up to 50? or work on 1 planet till near max?

That brings me to my Last item, if you have a new planet that is 5 max facilities, I have made 4 Research centers, when would you start building a Settlement, right away regardless of pop, or until after you hit 50 mil or more (am wondering if the build time will adjust as you add more pop while something is building). Can you upgrade a Settlement to a Colonial Community? or should I just start building a Colonial Community (will take forever, hehe).

Thanks for your help

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

I think I am the only person here who does not like proportions for a pbw game...

Too slow...

But it is a fav. here for years... Which is a good thing ... as it takes years to play a game.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Ohh, I wasnt being negative, was just wondering what people did in the early part of a game.

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You aren't alone Tesco. Proportions is not really a good mod for general PBW use because of the huge numbers of turns necessary to play a game with it. If you want to do something weird like start with 10 HWs on a small map, then it is a little better. But otherwise, it takes forever for the games to go nowhere in PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Not.

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

ok how about some ideas to my questions, hehe. I didnt mean to start a thread on the good/bad on the mod.

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Try this link:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...50;p=21#000304

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Pvk.

I was not trying to put down your mod. I was just mentioning that it takes along time to play out on PBW.

That is all.

I am the fan of the mid game...

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Thanks Tesco. The "not" message was directed at Fryon, whose repeated opinion I'd already responded to before. That is, game "speed" depends on what you measure, how you set up the game, and how you play. Colonial development and high-tech research are slower, but as I already wrote, the action can actually be faster. The unmodded game's pattern of colonizing and reasearching everything before fighting (or risk falling hopelessly behind) is made impractical by Proportions as makes sense and allows for more varied styles of play. So if you fail to realize this, and try to play Proportions like the unmodded game, and gauge its "speed" on how quickly the old approach can be realized, then it may seem slow.

Some options though for some interesting and "faster" Proportions starts, as I've mentioned before, include:

* auto-running the first 100-200 turns using Proportions-modded AI's

* going to settings.txt and adjusting the resource values of planets in the quadrant

PvK

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are a number of interesting options for what to put on the homeworld's free slot(s), which can have important long-term effects. I often change what I have there at different stages of the game, depending on what is going on.

Quote:

In the doc for Proportions it mentions that once you get to 50 mil pop the build speed curve tapers off, do you get a planet to 50 mil then go to other planets and get them up to 50? or work on 1 planet till near max?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are several valid techniques. One thing to consider is the range to destination, and another is what other planets you could raise to higher levels. Note there is also a drop off in construction rate at around 10 million, and the low millions are really sad compared to about 10-12 million. It depends on the situation and your strategy what makes the most sense. A good approach though may be to fill closest planets to about 50, and more distant planets to about 10, or maybe less for ones that are farther out.

Quote:

That brings me to my Last item, if you have a new planet that is 5 max facilities, I have made 4 Research centers, when would you start building a Settlement, right away regardless of pop, or until after you hit 50 mil or more (am wondering if the build time will adjust as you add more pop while something is building). Can you upgrade a Settlement to a Colonial Community? or should I just start building a Colonial Community (will take forever, hehe).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, that's an even wider-open decision, I think. I'd consider circumstance, such as proximity to threats, storage space for defenses, the need for a resupply depot, etc. If it's a research colony, you might want to put a computer complex there instead of a cultural facility, for another example.

For the simple questions, yes the build time will adjust to match the current population level. You can start building something that says it will take ten years with 1 million pop, and then dump more pop on it and it will go down to the correct amount.

Colonial Settlements can be upgraded to Colonial Communities, but those can't be upgraded to cities. Small Cities can be upgraded all the way to Megolopolis, however. So Colonial Settlements and Communities are good if you want just a little multi-purpose ability on a planet, without the investment time of building a city. Cities are better for serious long-term investment, though.

PvK

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So? Proportions still has the same issues with PBW that it did before. It is the nature of the mod; you can't very well fix those issues without destroying the spirit of the mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Although, that summary dismissal of my valid points was a pretty nice way to respond to criticism...

[ April 08, 2003, 05:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Thanks PvK

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So? Proportions still has the same issues with PBW that it did before. It is the nature of the mod; you can't very well fix those issues without destroying the spirit of the mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Although, that summary dismissal of my valid points was a pretty nice way to respond to criticism...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fryon, again it seems like you're just ignoring or not understanding what I said, even though I've now responded twice (not counting the summary dismissal).

PvK

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

sorry narrew.

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Proportions is a great mod. Of course, as mentioned is it can be very slow on PBW.

Good ways to speed it up: Only allow players in you know are reliable, set up 36 hour turns, and plan turn blitzes, especially early on.

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I understand what you posted perfectly well. Those modes of play just aren't very appealing. I do not want the AI to ever play a turn for my empire. I don't want to go have ludicrously high planet values either. I don't want to play on really small maps with 10 (or even 5) HWs, of any type, Proportions or unmodded. None of these fall under the Category of "general PBW use", which is what I said Proportions was not very good for. They fall under "specialty PBW games" because of the odd features (well, 10 HWs isn't quite odd, but 10 Proportions HWs is). Proportions as it is meant to be played (1 HW, normal planet values, that sort of thing) creates games that need many times the number of turns that a normal PBW game needs, and this is what I said was bad for PBW games.

I think the crux of the problem is that you are interpreting "not good for general PBW use" as "not in any way shape or form good for PBW, period". This is not what I meant, nor what I said.

[ April 09, 2003, 01:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: is there a thread on proportions
 

Ok, well if you just mean that if you don't set it up carefully, and insist on expecting research and colonial development to proceed at the same speed as the unmodded game, then of course it will be a lot slower, because those are the main things that change in Proportions.

However, multiplying planet values doesn't abuse the mod all that much. It just gives you more resources to build things with, which means larger fleets and thus the potential for more action even sooner. It also means you could do more, sooner, with the output of small colonies, although it would still have the same small proportional effect compared to the homeworld. It would give you more to manage, though, so might tend to have the same management level as an unmodded game, though. Also, some of the economic decisions would be bent a bit, because the costs wouldn't change, so the long-term investment tradeoffs would be less of an issue.

PvK