A question about solar panels
 

In a game that just completed, I had this transport design:

Bridge
Life Support
Crew Quarters
(5) Ion Engine I
(10) Cargo Bay I
(1) Solar Collector I

The engines use 10 supplies each, the Solar Collector supplies 50 supplies per star.

In a system with a star, why did the supplies run out? Does the activity of loading and unloading consume supplies?

Thanks in advance...

Re: A question about solar panels
 

I think each engine uses 10 supplies to move one sector only. Thus at full speed youd be using 250 supplies per turn.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

That's 10 supplies per engine per move point - so it's really 50 supplies per move x 5 moves, so about 250 supplies per turn.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

If you move only one sector per turn, you will be alright.
The engines consume 10 kt per moved sector, they move 5 sectors each month making a supply demand of 5x5x10=250kt.
The solar panel gives you 50 kt per turn.
50-250=-200kt per turn.

Sorry, solar panels 1 aren't that effective.

EDIT:Darned that Kwok, beat me to it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 20, 2003, 20:01: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: A question about solar panels
 

DavidG:

You got that in just a second before I did...!

Edit:

Geez, and Ruatha just behind me!

[ April 20, 2003, 20:00: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Ha ha beat you all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Strange, when I posted DavidG's answer wasn't there.

So : Darned that DavidG, beat us to it.! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Thanks for the answers, folks. I could have sworn that two panels kept a small ship supplied, but I guess that was when I was not moving at full speed.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Another point is that bonus movement from any means (engine bonus, solar sail, propulsion experts, etc.) DOES use supplies.

Slick.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah! Never could figure out why a solar sail caused the engines to use fuel...

Re: A question about solar panels
 

which i guess is simply a balance plugin to balance the powerful sails.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

I have always thought that Solar Sails should add movement without using supplies. It just doesn't make sense. I suppose it is easy enough to mod them some supply generation and I know that some mods do this. But a stock Solar Sail sure doesn't act like you might expect if you are comparing it to a sail on a real sailboat i.e "free" movement using energy from wind (or in space, solar wind).

Slick.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You still need some energy (from the crew at least) to rig sails and hove the ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You still need some energy (from the crew at least) to rig sails and hove the ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's negligible compared with the energy required to move the ship and should not be considered when using supplies. A stationary ship uses no supplies, but the crew is still working during that time.

Slick.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Slick,
I agree if you envison them like sails on sailboats. Since this is science fiction I can envision a contraption where
The sails collect < insert cool moom beams or something > and then combine this with the supplys to produce an afterburner effect.

Mostly it is for play ballence.
I was surpised when my speed 12 BC fleet failed to show up and a planet got glassed. I still recall the comunications:

Red Star to Falcon Fleet - Where the *ell are you!
Falcon Fleet to Red Star - We are out of supply
Red Star to Flacon Fleet - Please repeat, it sounded like you said you were out of supply.
Falcon Fleet to Red Star - That is affirmative. Could you send a supply tender. We are currently in an obscuring storm System XWXW Sector 8,4
Red Star (over his shoulder) - Ensign where is the nearest supply ship to Falcon Fleet?
Ensign - System ABAB enrought to Sparrow Hawk Fleet
Red Star - Isnt that another speed 12 fleet?
Ensign - yes Sir. they are dead in space in....
Red Star (mutters) this is going to be a long day

[ April 21, 2003, 12:50: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You still need some energy (from the crew at least) to rig sails and hove the ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's negligible compared with the energy required to move the ship and should not be considered when using supplies. A stationary ship uses no supplies, but the crew is still working during that time.

Slick.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, they all cryogenically asleep and consume no food or oxygen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That's what supplies are, right ? The stuff that makes people live and work. Like, I have a loot of supplies in my refrigerator right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

I do not believe so. Much like the 1,000,000 person modular arcologies, the Crew Quarters and Life Support system create a fully self-sustaining environment for the crew, one where they can continue to live despite loss of all supplies, seven systems away from the rim, unrecoverable, but still consuming maintenance resources.

That's what I'm wondering. Why the blank can't I get intel reports from my omnipresent, invisible, vacuous fleet of resource freighters? Or at least tell them that a certain ship is 'cut off'. I know why: because that's not the way the game works. I'd hardly want time or Aarontime spent of changing that, but I'd like to hear a good excuse.

And another thing: ship takes damage (damn non-fatal mine fields), looses Bridge, Crew Quarters, Life Support. The ship still operates, sort of. Is this one guy left awake, like 2001, where everyone else sleeps? Are the sleep beds built into the chassis? Shouldn't there be a way to kill the crew themselves and eliminate their 'experience' level?

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Oleg, I would have to disagree. The components that use supplies are ship's systems and I think they represent basically a composite of fuel & ammo. Engines and weapons use supplies and a few other non-life supporting components like Stellar Manipulation components. Supplies can be viewed as energy required to operate the ship's large systems. Life support uses no supplies, nor does a stationary ship. A ship can be on station guarding a sector for the entire game without running out of supplies. If it doesn't move, the only way it can run out of supplies is if it fires its weapons enough times. If the intent was that supplies should also represent crew support, some component like Life Support would use supplies each turn even if the ships don't move.

Slick.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's the way SEIII worked IIRC. In some ways that was better - in other ways the current system is better. I think it would be nice to have both; not from the MicroManage perspective but from the 'reality' perspective. For instance, any ship with crew quarters will use some supplies each turn reguardless of ship movement / combat (don't fighters do that now?) Ships with just MC's should not use 'em unless move or fire....

I know this has been discussed many times - just my $.02 ...

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, and it can be turned off in settings.txt.

Slick.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You still need some energy (from the crew at least) to rig sails and hove the ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Solar sails actually can give you free movement, in some situations. Strip a ship of its engines, and give it a solar sail. Voila, free movement, no Quantum reactor required http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

No supplies limits you 1 move per turn though, so you have to add a supply storage comp. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 23, 2003, 00:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great. Now all I need is engines that I can blow up on command, and a small supply component, so that my ship will be able to move a bit better when it had _nearly_ run out of supplies.

Come to think of it, it's not unreasonable to expect to destroy _any_ component on command. Others wouldn't have much reason, since the enemy can just repair the component if they catch your ship.

Of course, if you have blown up your engines _before_ the enemy closes in to capture your ship, your enemy will be sorely inconvenienced.

Yeessss, how deeeviiious...

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have an even better idea - wouldn't it be great if, the instant your ship got captured, your ship got destroyed, and the enemy's did too? Wait, what does this 'Self Destruct Device' do? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You have a good point. And that crazy bLast-the-engines idea would only work in Tactical combat.

There is also the option of setting the secondary attack priority to Ram. If I am not mistaken, that will make a ship, once deprived of the ability to shoot at its enemies, into a rampaging juggernaut of

"HHUUG MMEEE!"
*WHAM!

Which ought to vex any capture ship attempting to close with it. That has some significant entertainment value as well. I will have to try that out.

Come to think of it, I don't know if I've seen much of any ram-strategy out of the AI... do any of the AIs ever ram?

Is ramming even a viable tactic? I seem to remember something about Organic-Armored Ram Escorts, but does anyone make use of this sort of thing?

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Organic armored ramming battleships are very deadly, cause they can crush nearly any ship and just regenerate the next round, to go on crushing more. And, they are cheap. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Do any AIs take advantage of this tatic?

Re: A question about solar panels
 

It is a difficult tactic to use properly, and is easily countered by Ionic Dispersers. Ramming a target drops your shields to 0 IIRC, so an ID can disable your ship after the first ramming. A Shield Regenerator would help, but not be completely effective. Same with Boarding Parties. They can capture your ramming ship after it makes 1 ram. AIs are not adaptable to the current situation like humans are, so getting them to use this tactic properly is problematic at best. There is probably an AI or two out there that uses something like this though.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Whoa... how did I get a four star rating?

I think I started today with two. And I was surprised I had a rating at all.

[edit: Four Star rating and Corporal. Woot.]

[edit again: problems with the letter t]

[ April 23, 2003, 22:58: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There have been some attempt to make such AI. Some organic TDM ships (Aquelinas, United Flora)have heavy OA loads and ram strategy. But it is indeed a tough trick to pull. If anybody do it, his/her AI modding skills should get the upper mark !

Re: A question about solar panels
 

Oleg:
It wouldn't be hard to get them to build the ships and use them properly. The problem is that that strategy is fairly easy to counter with the right technologies. The AIs can't adapt to new situations at all, so they would become very weak once you get IDs and Boarding Parties. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A question about solar panels
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I tested this out. Gave an escort bridge, life support, crew quarters, solar sail, 1 supply component. Built it and...
It has a movement of zero. Seems that bonus movement won't do anything unless you have at least 1 standard movement point.
Adding a Quantum Reactor didn't do anything either.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

maybe it includes a check of the supply. try adding a supply component.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

I did. It is in my Last post. Tried it without supply, then retrofitted with, then build a new one with, then retrofitted to Quantum, then built a new one with Quantum. All had zero moves.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

i meant supply capacity. if it's 0, it might not work anyway.

Re: A question about solar panels
 

with the supply component my supply capacity was 1000 and still 0 movement. I even made sure it had full supplies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif