Proportions fix list
 

I want to make another bug fix Version of Proportions 2.5, but I think I may have forgotten some bugs that have been found since the latest release. Please let me know if you know of any issues (or very minor things to add/change) not covered in the following list:

* Some AI's try to create high-tech infantry in the late game with shields, resulting in empty units which crash SE4 during ground combat.

* Some AI's try to use DUC's on some ship designs, even though their main weapon is a different type, so they keep building some ships using low-tech DUC's.

* Add new generic images from Dogscoff for Elite Infantry, Starliner, and Large Starliner.

* Add new Versions of Oleg's AI's.

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Keep up the Good work....Great Mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Just started my first Proportions game (turn2)...NGC Proportions.

It looks very interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And exciting! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Some time ago PsychoTechFreak observed AI planet full of resupply depots. It is because the lack of bogus abilities in some buildings. Here is my post in that thread ("slow down exploration...) and why it would be nice to fix:

----------------------------------------
I think I know what happend when one AI build 15 resupply depots on one planet ! In fact, it is quite funny:

As posted before, Proportions' AI can not use "spaceport" and "resupply depot" abilities to select buildings - it will start to buils Cultural centers everywhere. Insted, it uses "emergency energy" as a codename for "spaceport" and "emergency resupply" for "supply depot". Only spaceports and resupply depots have these bogus abilities. But buildings under "large support facilities" do not have these bogus abilities ! It was PvK idea and I'll talk about it later. AI is not suppose to "know" about "large support facilities" - There is no such entry in any AI research files. So normally AI build spaceports/resupply depots without any problems. Now, suppose AI find "large support facilities" tech. in ruins, steal from humman player or somehow else. Now, when it builds Spaceport/Resupply depot, it can UPGRADE them to better buildings, but after the upgrade buildings LOSE bogus abilities. AI is still instructed by construction_facilities file to build buildings with "emergency energy" and "emergency resupply". Thus, it builds new one, upgrade, build...

If Pvk restores bogus abilities to "large support facilities" this problem would never arise ! And there is no danger AI will build expensive facilities - it stilll can not research "large support facilities" tech !

------------------------------

Re: Proportions fix list
 

LOL!!!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Yep, he's of course right, and I had missed seeing that post. Thanks PsychoTechFreak and oleg!

And thanks mottlee and tbontob for the cheers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Yep same here, we finally got NGC: Proportions going, dispite all the problems we had at the begining, but hopefully we will be rolling though turns in no time.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Could you add a date to your site when you update things. It makes it easier to know when updates came on line. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions fix list
 

I can only add the changes to vehiclesize.txt we discussed by email.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

just thought of another one- if you want to include and if you can do so without affecting play balance:

Could you alter the population production modifiers so that i can move a few million off my homeworlds without taking a huge drop in production? Just bumping the threshold from 4000 to 3998 or something would be fine...

Re: Proportions fix list
 

I am in for a most 'Excellent' update! PvK, Sir! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Oleg's AI for the Puntherraian's is great! By the way! If you did not already know. The Puntherraian shipset v2.0 is out as well. If you want to change the vehiclesize.txt file on your next update!

OH YEAH! GREAT MOD, PvK!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Yeah, I think I can swing that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">4,000 to 3,998?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Help!

No wonder I am at the bottom of the list in the game I am playing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is there a list somewhere that explains the changes from 1.84 Gold? And if so, where is it?

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">eh??? I don't understand.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What, you mean the differences between the unmodded game and the latest Version of proportions? There are probably too many to list, but there's an excellent overview on the official proportions page. Just find any post of PvK's and look in the sig.

[ April 29, 2003, 08:41: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: Proportions fix list
 

I think tbontob probably misunderstood what you were suggesting, although I don't know in what way? Maybe he is in a game where he started with 2,000 homeworld population, or he thought you were talking about a typical colony in your empire. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As for the changes list compared to 1.84, there is no complete list of all changes (unless you run a compare program on the data files...). As Dogscoff said, there is a good list on the Proportions web page (see link below), or in the readme.txt in your Proportions directory. The list of changes since the first Version of Proportions is pretty complete, though.

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Hi Pvk! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well, yesterday I must have tried to access your site about 20 times and got the "Time-out" message. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

First try today and I'm in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Downloaded the mod discription. And it prints out to 16 pages! Going to keep me busy for a while reading it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

No question about it, PvK, you are to be complimented on the dedication and work you have put into this mod! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What I meant was that out of 15 or 16 players in a game I am playing, guess who is ranked 15th or 16th?

The reference to 4,000 and 3,998 was just a way of saying I am not in any way familiar with the nuances of the mod. It was an indirect way of saying I needed help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now to take a look at the "readme.txt in the Proportions directory".

Thanx for the help. Everything's cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Quick Observation,

Components.txt File
Crew Quarters

Ability 2 Type := Boarding Defense
Ability 2 Descr := Crew resists boarding attempts with the strength of 20 marines.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 5
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0

Could you please explain if this component has the strength of 20 marines then the value is 5?

Here is the Ability.txt File
Boarding Defense
Value1 = Defense strength in ship capture.
Value2 =

Not a big deal, just wanted some clarification.

Thanks for the hard work and great mod.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, pardon, the web server was down due to power issues.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks! Well, you may be behind, but score can be an inaccurate measure of standing, particularly in Proportions. For example, ship tonnage plays a large part in the score, regardless of what is in the tonnage, so your opponents might have a lot of colony ships and starliners, while you have expensive warships which would eat their fleets for lunch. Or, you could be behind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Fortunately, though, falling behind is generally not fatal the way it is in the unmodded game, mainly because the production and research rates tend to be somewhat equalized by the homeworlds and trade.

Quote:

The reference to 4,000 and 3,998 was just a way of saying I am not in any way familiar with the nuances of the mod. It was an indirect way of saying I needed help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Now to take a look at the "readme.txt in the Proportions directory". Thanx for the help. Everything's cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to help. The readme.txt is pretty much the same thing as is found on the web site - only the bit at the top is different.

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks SunDevil!

The reason is that each point is worth 4 marines. There are no components with smaller-grained strengths, so it wasn't necessary to have the actual unseen value set to 20.

However, it may be somewhat inaccurate, in that I later learned Crew Quarters inherently (hard-coded in SE4) give a defense value of [I forget what exactly... 1, 5, something]... so actually Props crew quarters are probably stronger than listed. That'd be something to figure out and fix, I suppose. Although, boarding combat is so oversimplified in SE4 that it might not be so bad to have a hidden factor involved. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

PvK,

Name := Efficient Jacketed - Photon Engine II

Ability 4 Type := Warp Point - Turbulence
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 0
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0

Do you put this ability with this engine in order for it to be effected by the Warp Point - Turbulence in the Events.txt File?

Is this the only way for components to be affected by specific events is to create an ability within the actual component specification?

Thanks.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

No, it's a "bogus ability label" for the AI. It has no effect on ship components, but allows us to trick the AI into building ships that use some of those instead of all inefficient engines.

There are lists of bogus abilities and what they mean at the tops of some of the data files.

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

PvK,

Another question for you.

Name := Emergency Propulsion I

Tech Area Req 2 := Inaccessible Technology
Tech Level Req 2 := 8

Is this setting to keep the computer from using this component and if so why, does the computer not use this well? Thanks again.

Edit: I looked at the techArea.txt file, and after reading the description, my question still stands on whether the computer uses this or other components well with this designation. Thanks.

[ May 01, 2003, 08:32: Message edited by: SunDevil ]

Re: Proportions fix list
 

PvK,

Another Question,

Name := Mine Sweeper I
Ability 2 Type := Cargo Storage
Ability 2 Descr := Counts as cargo for use on transport hulls.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0

I looked at the ability.txt file, and there is no further information and was just wondering if there was suppose to be a value here. Thanks.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can answer this one:
The cargo storage ability is to allow this component to be used on transport hulls, that's all.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Thanks,

That makes sense now.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Yep. Yep. Thanks guys.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Inaccessible Technology" is a trick to keep old save games compatible with new Versions. If you start a new gew, neither you or AI will ever be able to research or use these components or buildings. In fact, you can purge Proportions data files from everything containing "Inaccessible Technology" and there will be no problems with your new games. I sincerely hope sooner or later PvK will issue a new Proportions patch clean of this old mess. Before that, simply do not pay any attention to "Inaccessible Technology" items whatsoever !

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Thanks for the response.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Ugh. Well I thought it used to work fine. Maybe the recent patch changed it. I'll have to test. Sigh.

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

I think the AI strategy file for several races needs some fixing. I refer to "do not shoot on planets := true" firing in all strategies but "capture planet". I know the idea was to prevent AI from glassing planets and force it to invade. Unfortunately, it does not work as intended. many times I saw this picture - fleet with "capture planet strategy" attacks planet: The fleet has attack ships with, for example, "optimal firing range" strategy and loaded troop transports with "capture planet". Troop transports flee to the corner and wait for attack ships to kill WP. BUT attack ships have the instruction "do not fire on planet := true" in ship strategies !! They just hang around till the ned. No planet with WP can be captured by these races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Please restore "don't fire on planets := false" for attack ships ! Yes, AI will glass planets but at least it will capture if troop transports are in the fleet.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

May be you tried it against a planet with no WP ? Then troop transport will rush and drop troops. But against a defended planet - sorry, stalemate.

Re: Proportions fix list
 

Well, I just ran two tests, one in SE4 v1.78, and one in v1.84, and both came out the same, running the simulator, anyway.

It works, but only if the Capture Planet strategy has "Ships Break Formation" set to NO.

I only see this problem with two Proportions AI's: Cryslonite and UkraTal.

The other Proportions AI's should either do the invasion trick, or just be genocidal maniacs, without the problem you describe, at least, according to my simulator tests, and experience playing SE4 v1.78 and earlier.

So, which AI were you seeing the problem with?

I also noticed that the Drushocka don't have a unique strategy file - they're using the default AI strategy (which is ok).

PvK

Re: Proportions fix list
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But that is not good ! Since ALL fleets use "capture ship planet" it will make such AI hopeless in combat, with ships make ritual dance instead of bLasting enemy. IMHO, "ships break formation true" is a must.

I am pretty sure I posted all my latest AI with strategy files. Hmm, I might make mistake. Anyway, before updating your site, please contact me and I'll mail what I have on my computer.

P.S. I noticed this problem with Piundon and Terran.