Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

OK, so I'm still reeling from the loss of the Firefly series. It was Joss's best work. A multitude of various colorful characters fleshing out a multiplot story. What a loss!

So, just a curiosity poll:

[ May 04, 2003, 17:56: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

I would have thought more people than this would have been interested in a Firefly poll. Perhaps I was wrong.

If you missed the series, then you missed:

(1) The captain of a space vessel who was more believable than Kirk (et al) ever was;

(2) A better plot than any of the Star Trek series (et al) ever had;

(3) Better acting than ST, Deep Space 9, etc.;

(4) Better looking women (well, except maybe for T'Pol);

(5) And not riddled with episodes where Wesley (or some similar character) didn't re-invent the spaceship to win out over some problem!

Don't get me wrong, I watched most every one of the "Star Trek" series and spinoffs. And, after being a fan of them, I recognize a better effort.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

I agree with you that Firefly was a fantastic series. It had a much better framework and more realisic universe than many of the Star Trek episodes. I mean, they even showed that in space, you don't have sound effects!
Yeah, FOX sank the show. Every other episode was inturrupted by some lame movie or 'special'. I use that Last term very guardedly. I'm really hoping that they don't do the same for John Doe.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Yes, John Doe is (was?) really kewl! Of course, it required a certain audience that had progressed beyond "Stringer". Much the same for all those people who lapped up Star Trek spinoffs yet failed to give Firefly a chance. Such is their loss (and mine as well).

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Firefly had some really cool commercials, and I heard some good stuff about it. Never saw a single episode though bcause of the scheduling stuff you already mentioned. It's a shame, but a fact. You can't make people work that hard to become fans of a show.

I was one that "lapped up" the Trek spinoffs. DS9 was some of the best episodic TV ever, period. Sci-fi or not. Even Voyager was at times better than the original Trek. Not just in eye-candy, but in quality of writing.

And the nice thing about the trek shows was they were on at the same time every week. At least where I live they were.

Geoschmo

[ May 05, 2003, 00:30: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Not to get passionate about it, but...LOL...getting passionate about it.

For those who are taken with B5. For those who settled for the "Star Trek" series spinoffs. It's a shame that it wasn't carried forward.

Multi-plot...incredible variety of characters, and better-than-average acting.

For those who can stand the truth, I can tell you the reason it was sabotaged by FOX.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

For example:

Adam Baldwin, who played Jayne in the series.

For those who don't know, there is still a Firefly forum. Lots of people who still wish the series had continued.

OK, beyond all that. How many actors do you know who hop onto the forum and chat with fans? Chat about the series, about the war in Iraq, and about most of anything.

Even the main character hopped on once in a while to talk to fans. Mal, too.

And, that's cool! To spend time with fans.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

slynky you're absolutely right. it was a cool series, and the plot just began when it was taken off.

same goes for john doe, cool series, just starts to get really interesting at episode 20. and now i hear they want to tkae it off...

ok, i have no fox (living in germany) and don't know their policy but taking a show off after 10 episodes sounds a little stupid. and they have to think about other markets too, i think it would run really good over here in old europe.

[ May 05, 2003, 01:42: Message edited by: Preacherman ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dude, or whatever the German word for it is... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ,
you are so right. About both. You see, both were too intellectual for the viewing public. BUT, for us American viewers, Firefly had many more problems.

For one, FOX didn't even start the series off with the f------ pilot! They just started the series and aired the pilot a few months later. THAT sucks!

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

B5 suffered from the same inconsistant scheduling in my area, at least until the Last couple seasons. I never knew when the show was going to be on the first couple years. And a lot of times it wasn't on even when it was supposed to be according to the schedule. By the time it settled down to a consistant time slot the story was so far developed I couldn't get into it.

So Slynky, you got a juicy conspiracy theory for us concerning Firefly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fortunatly, rumors to the contrary, their is no "trilateral commision" in charge of making sure quality TV shows fail. It's simply short sighted programming executives that have to score big Ratings quickly or they get fired by even shorter sided upper managment. Shows like firefly that go against the flow take a while to develop a following. Networks don't take the long term view enough and give good shows a chance to develop that following. Cookie cutter formula shows get mroe slack because "something like this worked before", regardless of whether they have any virtue of their own.

Geoschmo

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

I only saw part of one episode (i didn't find out about it until after a few episodes and then missed a few others, always figuring I could get them later - I rarely watch TV - I was hoping to start watching regularly at a later point (if only it was on on weekends!)), but I've read all the scripts I can find (some floating out there, and a few very good summaries, beyond whats posted on the website, but haven't found everything) and watched all the clips I can find . . . anyone know if there's a [cheap] way to get all the episodes to watch?

I went nuts when i found out it got cancelled - especially since everything unresolved about river (and details about the Alliance and Blue Sun Corp) is STILL bugging me. Especially some of the stuff from her little "Shindig" rant - the brushing teeth, the little roots, nothing that I've found explains that bit. and "the little ones in the corner that you didn't catch . . . they're the ones that reach in and do it, they're the ones with teeth and you have to smash them" - reach in how and do what? or is it the psychological effect of the omnipresent Blue Sun ads . . . whatwhatwhat??? So many things, and I won't ever know if they were even supposed to be wrapped up eventually or not! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 02:53: Message edited by: Gwaihir ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

The captain may have been more believable than Kirk. But he was pretty shallow and one-dimensional compared to Picard. The plots were so-so. I can't point to a single episode that had a good plot. The acting was poor compared to the combined body of Star Trek. Granted, Inara was pretty cute. All in all, in my opinion, the show started from nowhere, went nowhere, and was cancelled--big surprise.

No offense. But you just can't come on to the scene and start picking on Star Trek. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Taz takes another pole! Taz Takes Another Pole! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Be serious? Well, OK.
Firefly... could of had big potential. Interesting group of characters and novel premise. Kinda like a freebooter space saga. Overall story hadn't advanced far enough for me to get a handle on where it would have been taken. Unfortunately we probably will never know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Farscape, Firefly: maybe the top brass just don't like the F words!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Sorry, but Taz was serious long enough!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

To raynor:
Well, it can't be expected to "go" too far in 10 episodes. It sould have been given longer than that.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

you can dowload the series via emule, edonkey, kazaar or whatever filesharing program. for emule, edonkey i'd suggest going to www.sharereactor.com , they are trustworthy and do all their riping themselves, so no viruses, trojans...

to raynor: character depths comes with time and of the 10 episodes 2 weren't that good and took the western style to far. but it was not the usual change this or that field and we win style of startrek (tng) which can get quiet boring if you see it every 3rd show.
and they had a storyline which i am a huge fan of, like the latter ds9 or b5 sequels.
by the way, their engineer gets dirty and has oil stains sometimes, not like the cleaning crew of every startrek series i saw, i like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

OOOH!!! THANKS!!!

clearly I didn't look hard enough.

hrm, i guess i should re-install Kazaa this summer . . . but it becomes such a timesink to have all those things you can get . . . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Juicy theory? Sure. But in a moment. I need to waste time trying to convert people who didn't give it a chance.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you know there are Firefly conventions? Not as big as Dragon*Con, mind you, but conventions where people get together. Star Trek has to rely on Dragon*Con and other such multi-dimensional shows. But people drove/flew from all over the country for JUST a Firefly convention. How do I know? 'Cause it happend just north of the Atlanta city limits. Not thousands of people, but people who loved the show.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Everyone has opinions, and like *******s, I have mine. I realize I am in the minority. One thing you should understand, though. I am a long time Star Trek fan. Old enough to have watched the original series, not reruns. And then to TNG. DS-9. Voyager (sucked!) and finally to Enterprise.

So, you're not dealing with a person who hates the Star Trek series and spinoffs. (henceforth referred to simply as "ST")

ST was and will forever be an "empire".

Given that, I had an open mind and took a look, a GOOD look, at Firefly.

And I can't remember plots in the ST series that were as deep. Give me an example of any ST series that had something like this:

(1) Who was Book (preacher)? Was he an agent who converted because of what he knew was going on?

(2) River. What REALLY happened to her? How powerful WAS her brain?

(3) Jayne. Hired to the crew. But, always a bit suspect on his motives and loyalty.

(4) Mal, the captain. MUCH more believable than Kirk or Picard. While both Kirk and Picard often found themselves in a position to balance lives of his/their crew, Mal came off MUCH better. If you watched, then you should pay attention to the backflash episode where he struggled to save his ship and crew members. And the pilot (another story). While both Kirk and Picard loved the Enterprise, NO episode of ST ever showed the feelings for a ship as well as Firefly. You see? It was Mal's daring attempt to buy a space vessel and "make a living with it". Serenity.

(5) "Love Connection". Yes, Enterprise has T'Pol and the captain. Kirk had "flings". And #1 had his Marina Sertis (sp?) on TNG. But I don't think any of them were developed as well as Mal and Inara. Not to mention the episode where it became known that Zoe and Mal had prior feelings.

(6) Firefly got out of situations with believable script. Kirk got of of predicaments with some basic logic (which was kewl). But, in ST TNG, Wesley saved the day TOO much. And often, someone (usually Wesley) connected "A" to "B" and saved the day. Give me a break!!!

So, I have rambled on to someone who, in my opinion, is a "diehard" ST fan. And will never accept an alternative. But, for those who gave the Firefly series a chance, you know what I am speaking of.

Finally, yes, I am an ST fan. But I dropped Voyager due to ridiculous scripts. DS-9 became a farce (too much BS with the Farengi). Enterprise was OK, but I found it tiresome. Sometimes, a series "spinoff" just isn't right.

Final tally? My wife is not really a SciFi fan. But, I told her how great TNG was. Someone loaned us the first season to watch. With enthusiasm, I put the DVD's on to watch. Then, I found myself trying to defend the acting and plots. Especially when it concerned the security officer, that blond whose name I have conveniently forgotten. Glad she died. So, it was then that I decided NOT to borrow the 2nd season of TNG to show her. BUT, Firefly held her every attentive moment. Was it because the show had more believable characters? I dunno. One thing I think, though, Firefly attracted more female viewers than ST ever did. Perhaps that was its downfall... it didn't attract the same audience that left dents in the couch every weekend while glued to sports from 1:00 am on Saturday till 7 pm Sunday.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Juicy theory? Sure. But in a moment. I need to waste time trying to convert people who didn't give it a chance.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry for the long quote.

But...

Imagine a series where:

(1) The chief mechanic was a female;

(2) One of the main characters was a professional prostitute (displayed in some sort of acceptable lifestyle).

(3) The smartest, most intelligent person on the ship was a female (River).

(4) Second in command was a female (Zoe).

NOW, you have a recipe for failure when considering the currently elected government (Republicans who embrace "keeping a woman in her place"). I have it on acceptible authority (well, as acceptible as comments made by cast members) that the Rebublican administration contacted the producers (FOX) and made comments that they didn't appreciate them (FOX) protraying women in a positive light who held positions in the series that were not in line with what they wanted a female role to be. After all, putting females into a position where they were 2nd in command, kept the starship running (Kaylee...who was shown in one episode having sex in the engine room), and "glorifying" the profession of being a "prostitute" was NOT what the administration wanted.

Think I am cynical or wrong? Then you should read the forum frequented by the actors themselves...which is just one other things that I think separates the Firefly series from the ST stuff. Ever see Shatner (a murderer?) or anyone else hop on a forum and chat with fans? Ever see the ST cast respond to Queries about how they felt about the recent Iraqi war? Well, maybe if they got paid!

Finally, it cost nearly 2 million dollars an episode to make. Just one other consideration when a network decides to cancel something.

So, I have spent some (wasted) time trying to give my viewpoint on why the series wasn't given a chance. After all, FOX didn't even air the pilot until mid-season! (How often have you seen THAT approach?)

For those who didn't give it a chance...I'm sorry for your loss. For those who embraced the series, I am also sorry for your loss. BUT, there is discussion of making a movie. It may never happen (and I hope it wouldn't be made without the original characters) but it is proof of the many fans that have shown support. And, perhaps, proof that there IS potential in the original scriptline.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

I agree with Geoschmo. The first couple of seasons of TNG were nothing to write home about. They hadn't killed of Yar yet. Riker didn't have a beard yet. Several of the episodes were blatant spinoff of TOS.

Slynky, you made some great points about Firefly. I had already forgotten some of the reasons I first started watching that show. It had some really good elements. But the crossover between space opera and western just didn't work very well for me. Maybe you are right. Maybe it was just a couple of episodes that went too far to the 'Western'.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Yet another thing about Firefly that will be sorely missed is the humor. Picard is my favorite captain, but you couldn't beat the one liners that the writers of Firefly put into the scripts. The episode that had the swordfight (duel) had me in stitches. "I won't harm him because I'm better than that" -STAB- "I'm still above that" -STAB- "Well, I'm not bad".

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL...yeah, forgot that one!

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Well as long as we are bashing SiFi plot lines I would like to add something.

First of all let me say that I am a trekie. I have watched them all. I lost interest in Voyager for a while but I came back to it later after they finally found the right formula.

I loved B5 and its sequels and to this day I curse Turner for causing the end of Crusade which IMO had huge potential.

I was stricken when I found Firefly had been axed. I loved it.

Well enough of that onto my rant...

I am really starting to get pissed at the new Enterprise. As a trekie I have been watching it and I keep saying to myself WTF?

Problem one... Messing with this temporal cold war crap. It was interesting in the beginning but it starting to border on disastrous. They are abusing the Time Line way to much with this concept.

But the biggest problem that I have with Enterprise is that No one on the crew has died!! I mean give me a break. This is the first time Humans have been in deep space meeting Aliens. Getting attacked.. And not one crew member has died?!

They have all been badly hurt.. or in critical condition. They don't have replicators yet... Sick bay is a zoo of animals that are used in medical treatments.. But not one crew member has died!

There was one episode where they ran into a cloaked Romulan mine and a hugh section of the saucer was blown away. But guess what? No deaths... No missing crew member presumed dead.

I know they may be trying to be more family friendly. I am not saying that I have to see crewmen slaughtered like in the red shirts of old. But when you loose an entire section of the saucer.. You can not tell me that there wasn't somebody in that section.

[ May 05, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: Perrin ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

I gotta agree with Perrin's complaint. I think you nailed it with the redshirts comment tho - the pendulum has swung to the other side. (Interesting how this follows the wars of various times - original:Vietnam-huge body count, Enterprise:Gulf War II - miniscule body count)

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

My biggest gripe with Enterprise isn't the lack of crewmember deaths. It's the overly moralistic tone. Star Fleet has always had this pie in the sky prime directive which sounds all good on paper, but never is quite practical out on the frontlines where you realize those cultures you have to let die because of your principles are living breathing people. The biggest tension in Trek has always been watching Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway struggle with the inner conflict between doing the right thing and doing what their orders tell them. It's not always clean. There are negative repurcussions from making choices. But they make them and deal with it.

Archer is the opposite. He isn't even officially bound by the Prime Directive because it hasn't been written yet, and already he's living by it more strictly than any Trek Captain before. This latest episode with the tri-gender race and their enslaved concubines that were treated as chattel and kept purposly ignorant is a perfect example.

Kirk or Picard would have never sent the slave back without at least giving the aliens a good dose of guilt for their archaic behaivior. More likely they'd have found a way to solve the situation, inter-empire relations be damned. Instead Archer hands her over, appologizing for the interferance. And then reads Trip the riot act for having compassion and treating the slave with respect. Disgusting.

Of course this didn't start with Enterprise. That aweful Insurection movie set the tone I think.

Geoschmo

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Oh, Slynky, Slynky. Why did you ever give her the first season TNG to watch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It always cracks me up when people rip on Voyager and say how great TNG was. I figure they are either too young to have watched TNG season one, or perhaps like me they were simply so repulsed by it they have subconsciosly blocked it out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

TNG didn't even get consistantly watchable till season 3 really. Season 2 had flashes of being a decent show. Season 1 was absolutly abysmal. I am firmly convinced that if it hadn't been that people were desperate because Trek had been off the air for 20+ years that TNG s1 would have killed the franchise outright.

Voyager in my mind is way underated by trek fans. The writing, acting and chemistry between the characters was better by far in the first episodes then TNG or even TOS. The biggest problem I think was that Kes chick. Fortunatly she wasn't that big a part of the show. Unfotunatly she suffered from the Wesley/Jar Jar Binks syndrome in that she was so objectionable that's all people remember from the show. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Hrm, I've only seen a few episodes (but they included several where there should have been deaths), so i had figured that I just was catching all the ones with that tone. Sometimes I agree with Archer, but most of the time, I think that the whole Prime Directive (especially since its not written!) is kinda stupid.

edit:
poor wash. still no votes.
Why don't more people think River is cool?!

[ May 06, 2003, 01:14: Message edited by: Gwaihir ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

I know that the series is being advertised over here in the UK on the Sci Fi channel.

You never know maybe they'll pick it up and make more episodes.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

That would be very spiffy!

Write your congressman! (oh, i guess its MP.) (yeah, so that's a silly idea. but thats what i'm good at! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Frankly, I'd be surprised. My wife was a serious follower on Firefly's forum. It seems the set for Firefly was very expensive and was due to be dismantled by a particular date if Fox didn't change their mind. That date has come and gone and the contract option expired. So...it seems very unlikely.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL...guess one could say he washed out. (remind me to slap myself later!)

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh don't get me started with Insurrection. The biggest plot hole that I have ever seen is in that movie. When the Enterprise entered the system they already were getting the special effect from the planet and they were not that close yet. (remember the comment about Riker's beard?) So if the effects extended into space why bother trying to move the Alien population? Just place a few space stations in orbit and you get all the good effect and you don't have to violate the Prime Directive.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting, yes. Cool? Not exactly. Should they get rid of the character? NO!

I guess it's more semantics than anything.

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting, yes. Cool? Not exactly. Should they get rid of the character? NO!

I guess it's more semantics than anything.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but beyond her part in the plot, is she cute er what!?

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting, yes. Cool? Not exactly. Should they get rid of the character? NO!

I guess it's more semantics than anything.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but beyond her part in the plot, is she cute er what!?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, it helps when she's not being psychotic, unless that's what floats your boat . . . just lookout what kinda shirt you wear, i guess . . .

And yes she is cool! hrmph. People have no appreciation for psychotic, raving maniacs. It just isn't fair. We're people too, you know!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

edit
one down (war stories), 11 to go . . . .

ShareReactor rocks! anyone here know whether its worth switching from eDonkey to eMule?

[ May 08, 2003, 04:19: Message edited by: Gwaihir ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Joss failed to show up at the Angel "end of the season party". Instead he sent a video of himself (yada-yada-yada). In the video, he stated the reason he couldn't make it to the party was because he had just gotten word that a project of his had been relit (re-lit?)

Now...you know how Firefly-aholics can be (you should check thier forum sometime...but I leave that up to my wife). Anyway, people are buzzing (pardon the pun) around wanting to know if "relit" is a clue that means Firefly has been given new life. Get it? Firefly...relit...

[ May 08, 2003, 13:05: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very veeerry interesting. I'm amazed I haven't heard this anywhere else.

But then, I might add that Joss has more than a few attempted projects that never panned, and he could be referring to any one of them (Buffy animated, the UK Ripper series, and I believe there was one other). But if it is.... HELL yes. Was afraid, with Buffy going and Angel bubbled, my sci-fi fixes would be gone. Now Angel's all but confirmed, and possibly, just possibly...

Oh, Book, and Jayne. They're all great characters, but those two were by far the most interesting.

[ May 08, 2003, 18:38: Message edited by: Radhil ]

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Rad, yeah, I think Book is interesting. Always wondered if he used to be some sort of agent. I used to watch him loooonnnngg ago on Barney Miller.

The think FireFly peeps have been keying on is the use of the word, "re-lit". Like a Firefly would light up and so forth. "Re-lit" sounds like something that had been extinguished and now is being re-lit. So, the Ripper series in England was never canceled or disapproved...Joss just hasn't taken the time to do it. Doesn't seem like it would be Angel as it never was canceled. Sooo....speculation abounds.

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I gave up on the series when they kept insisting the ship was unarmed.

Sure, it didn't have any systems that were specifically weapons, but the effectivness of any reaction mass drive (as their engine was) as a weapon is directly proportional to its effectiveness as a drive. This is why NASA places a small lake under the launchpad for the space shuttle; it is there to absorb all the energy. They had demonstrated that the ship has the ability to hover in place in a gravity well; flying over something at even medium range would be quite devastating, especially as the vessle was, what, 40 kilotons?

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

Well, if I understand what you are getting at, then you can pretty much "cancel" every "space show" there is due to technical flaws. Foremost among these is the Star Trek family (where one hears them fly by in space and hears weapons shooting, etc.) And too many other technical flaws to start listing.

So, given that, I suspect you "lose" a lot of sci-fi shows/movies... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Firefly (The Series)...POLL
 

"Sure, it didn't have any systems that were specifically weapons, but the effectivness of any reaction mass drive (as their engine was) as a weapon is directly proportional to its"

Effectiveness -as a weapon-..that doesn't mean the ship would be considered armed. It is entirely possible to kill with a pencil; most people wouldn't consider a man holding one armed.

And reaction drives as weapons only works when the target can't get out of the way.