Simultaneous game issue
 

Hi. I'm new here .. just into my first PBW game and I've come across a quirk that I wanted to pass by you guys:

I download my .gam file, play my turn and submit the .plr file. That's fine.

If I later decide to review the orders, I open the game again only to find all my orders are missing (aka, I'm opening the .gam file without loading the .plr changes). Is this expected? I like to review my plans and mull over my options. Am I SOL?

Thanks for your comments,

Beams

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Yes. Its been a feature request since about Version 0.0.1, to allow you to save a simultaneous turn game, then open it later and finish your turn. It is a constant frustration.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Well, you can always copy the file to some temporaly backup before processing the turn and if you make a mistake restore and review your actions. And NO, it is not a cheating since you do it during your turn and it does not involve the actual turn processing.

[ May 05, 2003, 18:41: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't get it, what do you mean??
You can always replay your turn, it's always reseted. And if you'r uplaoded turn has mistakes you can undo it and uplaod a new one, why save some file? Do you mean the GAM file to review the previous turn?

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can't do this in a PBW game.

Geoschmo

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Wow, I really expected that I was just missing something. I'm only on turn 6 and I find it annoying.

If, at least, when you pressed 'end turn' the game didn't immediately close, I could submit the .plr and keep the game up for later changes if I noticed anything.

Ah well. Thanks for the quick responses.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't get it, what do you mean??
You can always replay your turn, it's always reseted. And if you'r uplaoded turn has mistakes you can undo it and uplaod a new one, why save some file? Do you mean the GAM file to review the previous turn?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Aah, I mean once you end your turn and exit SE all files are overwright. gam and sav. Right ?

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Damn didnt knew that too.

My first big disappointement in SE IV.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only if you are the host processing the turn. But if you are the player in a PBEM game, all that is overwritten is the .plr file.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The inability to save your turn in a simultaneous game without actually ending it made me completely stop playing simultaneous games, altough I find this type of games much more interesting and fairer if you play against AI empires. In late games sometimes a turn takes me more than an hour to complete, so I desperately need the possibility to interrupt and continue later where I left. For me it is disappointing too that MM never introduced this possibility.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

In regards to saving in a Simultaneous games SAVES before you end turn.

1: Minimize se4.
2: Go to save game or Mod folder
3: Right click Copy entire Savegame Folder
4: Create folder SavegameBU
5: Paste Contents from the original Savegame Folder to new SavegameBU. Transfer Folder and all contents.
6: Max se4 and continue playing.

That’s it, if you wish to return to the Previous save [end game], Enter savegameBU copy the folder within and from the Mod Directory just over write and it will copy the old savegames back.
Start se4
Best to [LOAD] Previous game, not [resume].

I also copy and save from the Backup, History and Temp Folders from the se4 directory when I do a Simu global save, while playtesting; but this may be just anal.
Guaranteed to work.

=====

After you have did this a few times it takes less then 3 seconds to save and backup http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

====

EDIT: Below complacated, please ignore.

Recall AUTOSAVES in Simultaneous Games:
You also need to have auto save already set; for example 5 turns.
If you wish to go back to a Previous save go ahead. If it is problematic and it returns you the old time & date… No Problem.

Example Order by (Date Modified):
NAME
fi nw lg.gam ~~~~~ example my current game FInite NoWarp LGmap
fi nw lg_plr_1_stats
fi nw lg_plr_1_log
fi nw lg_Log.trn
fi nw lg_Combat.cmb
AUTOSAV5.GAM
autosav5_plr_1_stats
autosav5_plr_1_log
AUTOSAV0.GAM
autosav0_plr_1_stats
autosav0_plr_1_log

Be Clairvoyant if you like and check combat replays first.
End se4 game.

1:Tap or rename to highlight fi nw lg.game and Just copy all but .gam
or remember fi nw lg ( what ever your game name was)

2: delete all fi nw lg.* files

3: depending on how far you want to go back just rename:
AUTOSAV5.GAM TO fi nw lg.gam
autosav5_plr_1_stats TO fi nw lg_plr_1_stats
autosav5_plr_1_log TO fi nw lg_plr_1_log

Start se4
Load fi nw lg ~or what your game name was
You are back now to 5 turns ago.
Guaranteed to work.

======

Example when to save before an event:
Opening a (out a) Home System Warp.
Attacking an AI Planet.
Prior to a major AI battle.

Now of coarse I just do this while Play testing.
----
I would have never of posted this because it gives the Human Player yet another HUGE edge on the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

But how can we go forward with MOD testing in Simu play, with out this method http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

============

Geo or Moderators

I have never played PBW or PBEM so if the above method could lead to cheating in any way, Please remove this post. NOW .

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 21:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it wont lead to cheating, cause it wont work for simultaneous games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I am not really even sure how to decipher what you are saying, but I know it won't do what the others were asking for, that is a way to save an uncompleted turn in simultaneous and continue that same turn later. Your "method" doesn't do that at all.

EDIT: Ok, I reread your post, and I understand it better. I was confused by the "fi nw lg" stuff. Didn't realize that was just the game filename. But it still doesn't work. It allows you to reload a previous turn, but that's not a problem. We all know how to do that. You can't change the intervening turns by this method, so it can't be used to cheat. And you can't save a partially completed turn and reopen it later, which is the point of this thread.

Geoschmo

[ May 06, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

I can't really see that it improves on anything, isn't it the same as saving the GAM file to be able to review previous turns.
It doesn't really enable you to save the simultaneous game turn you are playing, quit the game and restart and continue on the current turn where you left off, right?

So as to PBW and cheating, can't see any issue there.

EDIT: Darn that Geo, beat me to it again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 14:32: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Originally posted by Q:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">~~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[/quote]
~~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geo, meaning no disrespect.

The method that I posted will absolutely save immediate turn .
while playing Simultaneous.

Thanks, I was unsure and concerned about PBW and PBEM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But I was very concerned about " The inability to save your turn in a simultaneous game without actually ending it made me completely stop playing simultaneous games"


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 14:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, I don't feel disrespected, but unfortunatly you are incorrect. Following your method will save and end the immediate turn, that is correct. But that is not a problem. Everybody knows how to do that. What we want to be able to do, and what yoru method does not allow, becasue Se4 does not allow it, is to open that turn up at the point you left off and make additional changes before processing the host part of the simultaneous turn. I think you just are misunderstanding what the problem is.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is exactly the problem, but your "method does nothing to address that problem. Your method doesn't save the current turn without ending it. And once ended it cannot be continued, it has to be started again from the begining of the turn.

Geoschmo

[ May 06, 2003, 15:02: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Thanks geo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I understand now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John

[ May 06, 2003, 15:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

I suppose it's possible someone could design a method of doing this involving somehow capturing the current contents of the PC memory and saving that to be reopened later. I am not sure how that would be done though other than just a basic theoretical idea. It might be kind of close to hacking the game though.

Geoschmo

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed.

I bet MB can come up with something to save and recall existing turns in a basic Simu Game though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It just worked for me. YES http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Did what you suggested, then open a few more warps from my Home System.
Found the Sergetti and restored the game by the method you suggested and it took me back 6 turns ago.
So far so good I am able to retrace everything. Except this time I won't open Sergettis warp Point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I also did this, is this what made the difference, JLS?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is not considered cheating in Solitaire Games, is it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 17:46: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Grand Lord Vito>
I think Geo explained it quite well.
What doesn't work is to make alot of changes in the turn, save the turn as it is, quit the game, load it and continue the same turn with the changes you've already made still there.
Each time you restart a simultaneous game it resets the orders you've entered the current turn.

To save previous turns you just need to save the old .GAM files, then load one of those.
Put them in an other directory if you wish and name them after the turn i e 2401.GAM, 2402.GAM if you are playing solo. If you want combat and ship movement replays you'll need to save those aswell but they are not necessery to see what had happened that turn.
To reload choose change directory and pick the turn you wish to view, but the orders you entered that turn won't be visible, you'll have to load the next consecutive turn and see the results to see what you decided to do, only orders that have spilled over from previous turns will be seen!
You can in this way by only saving the GAM file enter new orders and roll back the game aswell.

In PBW it's even easier, just save the ZIP files!
Ofcourse you can't "roll back" the game here but you can follow the events (I'd really like a working good replay function)

BUT, you cannot in any known way at the present time save your current turn in simultaneous, quit the game, restart and pick up where you left off.
I'm quite certain of this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Edit:typo and removed something about a replay button...

[ May 06, 2003, 19:01: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would require hacking the executable.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well you can dump the content of your memory to your hard disk, then restore it later. The laptop PCs do that when you 'emergency close' the screen. Now I dont know if a utility can do the same thing for a specific task, eg SE IV, and not the entire system.
My point is that, even if I'm totally far from being able to code such an utility, it is surely feasible, and that it dont involve hacking, as you dont have to understand the memory structure of a task/process to dump it to hard disk.

Well, my rant is all theorical, seems that no one here master enough the windows environment do to such a wonderful tool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway, back to topic, and I will speak again of my stars! experience: stars! which fitted on a single floppy, enabled you to save and continue a simul turn. A shame that Malfador never did that. I climb to 3 hours a turn in big PBEM games (stars, dominions), and I'm now unsure that I will PBEM/PBW SE IV because this feature lack.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Originally posted by Ruatha:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, Ruatha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In regards to Simultaneous game play only. Also works with LAN.
Never played PBW or PBEM, so I would not know.

If you copy and Back up these folders before ending a turn 100;
Savegame Folder – If playing a Mod then within MODS directory; otherwise se4 Directory’s Savegame folder.

Backup Folder – In se4 Directory
History Folder – In se4 Directory
Temp Folder – In se4 Directory

Play 10 Turns and then End game at 110.

Paste and overwrite the older Four above Folders containing turn 100 over the existing folders containing turn 110.
When turn 110 was overwriten, now there is no way the game would ever see turn 110 like it never existed.

The Game now Resumes at 100 and only can see turn 100, including all orders, history, Stats, Log, Combat reports AI everything from turn 100. Right were you left off at turn 100.

Please test it, how is it possible to be untrue?

[ May 06, 2003, 21:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, Ruatha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In regards to Simultaneous game play only. Also works with LAN.
Never played PBW or PBEM, so I would not know.

If you copy and Back up these folders before ending a turn 100;...
.
.
.
Please test it, how is it possible to be untrue?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, you are still confusing two totally different things. Ruatha is talking about saving during a turn and contuning that turn later. You are talking about saving at the end of a turn, and reloading a previous turn later. Two totally different things. One is possible and easily done, the other is impossible short of a hardcode change by Malfador or some memory storing trick like we talked about earlier.

Geoschmo

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Originally posted by geoschmo:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If I can save turn 100; during the turn, as I explained.

And then latter restore turn 100; to it full glory.

Then how is this different from your above quote?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

~~~

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to mem storing, as soon as you shut down...puff.

I believe it writes and reads to the folders I mentioned.

Where all in game information is saved and all is
Resumed and reloaded.

[ May 06, 2003, 21:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because the only way to save turn 100 is to hit end turn. That is the only way to save any simultaneous turn in Se4. Once you hit end turn it saves a .plr file for turn 100. That .plr file is used by the host to process the next turn. You can reopen turn 100, but you will be back at the begining. Everything you did the first time you opened turn 100 will be gone. You will have to do it again.

If you are running the host turns on your pc you can backup the files for turn 100, process the turn and then open turn 101, see what happened, and then restore the backup for turn 100 and open it again. But again you will be back at the begining of turn 100. You cannot open turn 100 "in the middle" and have the orders you already gave still be there.

That is what people are asking for the ability to do. We all know how to back up previous turns so we can reopen them and play them all over again form the begining. That doesn't help. What we want to be able to do is stop in the middle of turn 100, save it, go eat lunch and come bac in the afternoon and finish giving our empire orders. That we cannot do.

Geoschmo

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

THANK YOU....

I SEE THE LIGHT....

So we are both right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not to be a pest, but why can't you just leave the unit on EAT and then finish the turn latter.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Never mind, jut kidding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 22:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

The scene:

GK has just changed to go out for dinner and night of drunken debauchery... but he has some time to play his PBW game.

Starts the game and up pops the log screen. Events? What's this? Oh, just the warp point I opened. Politics? Some interesting stuff there. Combat? Hmm, good news and bad. Research? Okay those projects are done, better add these things. Click off the log, go to designs and make some new fighters and capital ships based on the new tech. Okay, back to the log. 3 new colonies. Get them up and running.

Now system by system. GK goes through 4 systems making changes when suddenly... "Whats that dear? Time to go? Already? Just let me save this game."

Save the game?

THE GAME WON'T SAVE!!! And Gk still has 6 systems to make changes in and those diplomacy Messages to respond to!

Three choices:
Leave the computer running and hope no one fiddles with it before noon tomorrow! Hah!
Quit the game and start over tomorrow. *groan*
End the game even though the changes are only half done! Naddachance!

I hope this clarifies what we are trying to say JLS.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

JLS, let me explain it this way...

I am playing a simultaneous turn game of SE4. Doesn't matter whether it's PBW, PBEM, LAN, or Hotseat on my own pc, they are all the same. Simultaneous.

By turn 100 I have a fairly large empire, let's say 200 planets. 300 ships, and I share the quadrant with 5 other empires, two of which I am at war with. Lot's of stuff going on. I am a very busy little emperor.

Since I am complely anal and I don't trust the Ai ministers to do anything I have to check every one of my 200 planets to make sure they are building what I want them to, answer all the Messages I get from other empires, and direct my fleets in their battles with the enemy. All this takes a lot of time. Let's say two hours, cause I am slow and have incredible attention to detail.

The problem is in real life I have a wife and kids and they don't really care whether or not my western sector is exposed to Xiati attack, or whether the space yard on Tarus IVA is stuck on repeat build of an obsolete ship design. They want to use the computer.

The only way I am going to get two straight hours of computer time is if it starts at 1 in the morning. I can't simply do half the work and walk away and hope my ten year old doesn't screw something up in between bouts of Final Fantasy IV can I? So I want to be able to do a little at a time, saving as I go and in the end I will have a .plr file ready for the next turn.

You "method" doesn't allow me to do that. All it allows me to do is go back and start over from the begining each time I open the turn. I can do that now without backing up anything.

Geoschmo

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Yes, thanks Grandpa Kim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I am Irish, and a little slow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 22:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Gee, I thought I was dense, Geo; You have some space yard on Tarus IVA, stuck on repeat build of old obsolete ship designs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 09, 2003, 00:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excuse me? What kind of nonsense is that?

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excuse me? What kind of nonsense is that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When Saint Patrick was converting Ireland, he was baptizing a Chieftain, when Patrick began the ceremony, he jammed his staff in the ground, accidentally spearing it through the foot of the Chieftain, at the conclusion of the ceremony, Patrick realized what had happened and asked the Chieftain, who was in extreme pain, why he had not said something, the chieftain replied, "I thought it was part of the ceremony."

No point in being Irish; unless you're thick http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT: Gaelic: Thick.
Has meaning of being substantial
This is a good thing.
Also could be intrepid as obdurate (stuborn and/or Persistent)
This could be a good thing.

[ May 09, 2003, 15:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

What happens in Windows XP if you "Change User" while SE IV is up and running?
Can you password protect a profile in XP?

Can you make the system near kid proof from being turned off?

Just speculating.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Is MM aware that many user want this "simultaneous game turn save" possibility?
Otherwise I would e-mail it to them, altough I am pessimistic that there will be any further patch for SE IV.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Gryphin : If I remember well, you can close a profil with applications still running (and you can pwd a profile). But a kid will always be able to shut down your PC. He will gets a warning that some profiles are still loaded, but I doubt he will care http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

After some querying to more geeky persons than me, it seems a harduous task to have an utility able to save and restore a program to the HD. One of the issue is that he wont be able to restore the application to the same memory segment that it occupied.

Altough a possibility exists to save the whole operating system (any OS). You have to use a virtual machine like the software VMWare, which allows you to create a virtual PC in to you PC (you can even have a virtual PC with XP inside a windows 98). With this utility, you can suspend and save to disk your virtual machine, and restore it and your will (along with SE IV running).

The problem is not that VMWare is difficult to use, it can be set to function in 5 minutes (you will have to spend an hour to install a windows in your virtual machine though). The problem is that VMWare is not freeware. If you want to meddle with the dark side, you can find serial keys, but we are far from having an honest and not cumbersome solution to save a simultaneous turn.

But theorically, if you pay your VMWare licence, you can. Or if you have some hundred dollars, buy a laptop with the system save feature http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

nb : I'm not encouraging anyone to do illegal things, I'm just saying a fact. Like the fact that most peer to peer Users are pirating things. Telling a thing is not encouraging to do it.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

I don't know if this helps, but WIN 2000 (and I believe XP) has "hibernate mode" next to the shutdown options which will put your computer to sleep. When you turn the computer on again, all programs restored will be at the exact point in time you gave the hibernate command.

I do this when I'm working on a big turn and need to leave.

Unfortunately, if someone else needs to use the computer, you need to brief them not to close SEIV, and leave it minimized while working, etc, and especially to hibernate it again, as opposed to shutting down.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

You can set the option for a password entree, when coming off hibernate or sleep.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

JLS:
I will ask you not to post any racist jokes in the future. They are always offensive.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which eliminates the possibility of others being able to use the PC, which is wholely counter-productive.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Understood.
---
I was answering your question, I did not realize at the time were you were heading. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
I was poking fun of my self, only.

I Meant no disrespect to others.

It won't happen again.

[ May 08, 2003, 23:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which eliminates the possibility of others being able to use the PC, which is wholely counter-productive.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">O'Kay, I was not considering productivity, just securing the PC; so I may get a bite to eat and no one will fiddle with my game turn.

In regards to shuting the PC down, my kids don't even turn the lights off behind them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 09, 2003, 00:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FYI--The exact story is as follows:

"When about baptise the King [Aongus], Patrick thrust his pastoral staff, by its sharp iron point, into the earth-as he thought. But it was through the foot of Aongus he thrust it. He discovered his grave mistake only when the ceremony was finished. "Why did you not tell me this?" he cried to the king. And Aongus answered simply, "Because I thought it was part of the ceremony."

This is copied directly from page 117 of the book "The Story of the Irish Race, A popular History of Ireland, Written by Seumas MacManus.

So you see, it is not a racist joke at all but a documented history. I'm sure JLS intended no offence.

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Anyways back to the topic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

It would appear that there is some concern that by saving a game in "midstream" may give information to a hacker to do serious damage to the game or give himself an unfair advantage.

I do know the turn is encrypted when it is saved as a .plr file.

For 20 years I was a Mac user and we had programs that could look at the structure of the program in memory and on a floppy or hard drive.

I know this because I did it. I was curious about the structure of the program and the way the data was saved. And the "savegame" files were not encrypted. If they were, it would would have made it immeasureably harder to decipher the data and probably would have stopped me in my tracks.

I would imagine those programs are still available for the Mac and for the PC as well. So the dedicated "enthusiast" should be able to locate and print out the program which is in memory.

He should also be able to locate and print out the "savegame" .plr file in whatever format he wishes. I was particularly fond of two, but hexadecimal was my favourite with ordered columns of hex data. But as mentioned the .plr file is encrypted so the dedicated "enthusiast" would have to have the skills of a cryptologist as well to make any sense of the data.

One way to break a code would be to make just a single change and compare the two results. That probably will not work now as the the algorithyms used have become much more sophisticated to make savegame files completely different from the earlier Version of the saved .plr file which was saved for comparison purposes.

What we need from MM is the ablity to save an incomplete move with the use of a completely different algorthym. Someone who takes weeks and even months to decipher the savegame algorithm for a incomplete move will not be able to use it to decipher the final .plr file.

Just a few cents worth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not necessarily accurate. And, just because something is historical does not mean it can not be racist. Also, the way in which JLS started that whole line was indeed racist. Try reading the whole thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

I agree with QBridgid, and the so-called perpetrator, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif that it was not racist.

I thought he was just poking fun at himself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But it would be a different kettle of fish if he was not Irish.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

[quote]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Quote:

the way in which JLS started that whole line was indeed racist. Try reading the whole thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fryon.

Thread: Simultaneous game.

My post regards to a method I use for saving a Simultaneous game before ending a turn so one may go back to that turn at any point in his or her game. This does have merits. As I pointed out in that post.

Example when to save before an event:
Opening a (out a) Home System Warp.
Attacking an AI Planet.
Prior to a major AI battle.

Also asking Geo to help out in what I was posting, to check for it accuracy and substance.

In which a very informative and professional exchange transpired between Geo, Rutha and myself.

Grand Lord Vito was helped by my Post in his No Warp Game.

Inspiring another exchange of enlightening Posts.

My Posts to Rutha and Geo were Polite and Professional.

A little saving throw wittiness was attempted by myself with Geo and Grandpa Kim; both of whom I have the utmost respect for.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With a name like O’Sullivan, trust me I am Irish. And I am slow. I can’t spell or type ~.
Up until February 2003 very little experience posting.
But still not racisms.
So far, just my Ethnicity

This is where it should of ended.

==

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With your posting experience; you asked a question.

Assuming we were part of a family here or associates in the very least, at that point.

In my inexperience; I tried an attempt, to be yet again, witty.
Hence the rough passage from pre 1944 Popular history of Ireland novel.
Thick refereeing to Persistence in me. This has not been a bad quality, for the most part. In my life.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Understanding, that I was now; not entertaining and having a good time with an associate, and this was about to be escalated in to something very unfriendly.

In my desire to defuse what was about to come. I posted a public apology.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In your experience in posting. You follow up with a statement.

You now call me a Racist…

Even after my public apology to the Irishmen, Women and all on this forum.

This is a little brutal Fryon.

Is there no reason to show myself a little quarter. When in the essence of my original post was an successful attempt to have some benefit to our Community here on this thread and forum.

[ May 09, 2003, 16:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

JLS, on behalf of all women and Irish, of which I am neither, appology accepted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron, drop it. No more out of you in this thread that isn't on topic. If you want to continue this irrelevant and distracting tangent contact JLS via PM, please.

EDIT: And that applies to everyone else as well. JLS made an offhand attempt at self depreciating humor. If you can't see it for what it was then take it up with him personally. Spare us all the constant bickering.

Geoschmo <Full moderator mode Off>

[ May 09, 2003, 16:28: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Will any of those Windows Power Toys/Tools, released conditional by MS; that give you split screen capabilities for 95 or 98 be of any help?

This way allowing another to work in there desktop environment. While your se4 environment will be minimized and possibly password protected.

[ May 09, 2003, 18:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Simultaneous game issue
 

Hmmmm....

It seems that most if not all players would like a "temporary" savegame feature.

Has anyone approached MM on this? And if they have responded, what is their position?